Officer Friendly.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Let's be perfectly clear Former Officer.....

As in Crystal...

What the actual fuck do you think is "thin" in this argument regarding holding LE to a rigorous standard? What's your actual beef my fragile flower?

Let me steelman that shit you're struggling with.

TVB's position:

Police work is extremely complicated. People not involved in LE work cannot possible understand the complexity and fluidity of interactions on the street. Most LEO's are stand up guys, even heroic in there tireless desire to get out of bed and do good work. There are a few, terrible apples in the mix as you'd expect in any grouping of people but don't besmirch the good name of LEO's everywhere with incredibly rare examples of misconduct when the reality is that many if not most of the "bad interactions" that we see in the media could be more easily apprehended when viewed through the lense of the men behind the badge.

Was that fair?

[Blaidd Drwg]

Here's a journalistic interlude for those who remember what fun this thread is.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/11/us/wh ... ction&_r=0

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

I accept your backbedal, BD, for what it is. Don't get me wrong, don't change a thing about your thread, but don't for a heartbeat, think you're amplifying an accurate reality....it's a farse, and all you have are 'links', at best. You, yourself, on this thread, said you've never had a problem with the cops. In fact, you might have even shared a positive experience, recently (although I could be mis-remembering or thinking of a FB post).

[Blaidd Drwg]

I accept your backbedal, BD, for what it is. Don't get me wrong, don't change a thing about your thread, but don't for a heartbeat, think you're amplifying an accurate reality....it's a farse, and all you have are 'links', at best. You, yourself, on this thread, said you've never had a problem with the cops. In fact, you might have even shared a positive experience, recently (although I could be mis-remembering or thinking of a FB post).

I've never been on the receiving end of police brutality. I've seen enough first person to get a clear sense of its smell.

But don't cunt out on me now slim...It's not a backpedal at all. Was that a fair assessment of your position? Yes or No?

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

I accept your backbedal, BD, for what it is. Don't get me wrong, don't change a thing about your thread, but don't for a heartbeat, think you're amplifying an accurate reality....it's a farse, and all you have are 'links', at best. You, yourself, on this thread, said you've never had a problem with the cops. In fact, you might have even shared a positive experience, recently (although I could be mis-remembering or thinking of a FB post).

I've never been on the receiving end of police brutality. I've seen enough first person to get a clear sense of its smell.

But don't cunt out on me now slim...It's not a backpedal at all. Was that a fair assessment of your position? Yes or No?

No. It's not, not even close. And for the record, I got a baton across the chest from a Hawaii cop in a parking lot during a brawl I had no part of (so, I have, technically been a 'victim' of police brutality, once, and as a white man, with a white chick from Canada)....and that was fucked up, but that is a long'ish story. What you're missing is, I am not asking or hoping for you and people like you to stop what you're doing; but I do think you need to keep it real(er) than what you and your ilk like to do. Nothing good happens from lies by omission, on any side.....look at all the dumb asses who readily concur to broad statements on this thread. Being smart is good; being fair is good; being both is best.

[Blaidd Drwg]

I call bullshit. There's no lies of omission here, there's' competing narratives that frame how we should think about the issues

If you can't manage to own a perspective I'll just have to stand by the proxy narrative (which I've heard repeated ad nauseum) , for the good of the order. Not because it's my perspective but because it's a reasonable one. It's a FAIR one and it's what MOST people tend to agree with...and it's also flawed as fuck.

Police work is extremely complicated. People not involved in LE work cannot possible understand the complexity and fluidity of interactions on the street. Most LEO's are stand up guys, even heroic in there tireless desire to get out of bed and do good work. There are a few, terrible apples in the mix as you'd expect in any grouping of people but don't besmirch the good name of LEO's everywhere with incredibly rare examples of misconduct when the reality is that many if not most of the "bad interactions" that we see in the media could be more easily apprehended when viewed through the lense of the men behind the badge.

Police work is undoubtedly complicated. Beyond a shadow of doubt. Is it also true though that people who have not done police work can't possibly parse the situations that arise? No. This is patently false. It is false on several levels. Firstly it is at least partly false because we know categorically that eyewitness accounts (both by witnesses and LE) are tremendously unreliable. Hence body camera being an essential tool on both sides of the badge for outside objective recording of at least some portion of the interactions whatever they are. The brain of anyone involved in stressful interaction becomes addled and the narrative construction begins...ergo, the basic moving pieces and perspective an incident are MORE likely to be perverted by the revision process than those of a third party. This is a human universal and it's well understood in the justice system. Bringing us to thing two.

We know that at least in terms of millions of hours or human practice that the criminal justice system (made up of largely non police officers) is expected and does quite well in a open court setting to get to the bottom of who what when where why. Whether those cases are police misconduct of a garden variety arrest, we rely NOT on the word of the Police as much as a through unveiling of the objective facts to get at the situation. So if a third party can parse the arrest sufficiently after the fact, how is it even conceivable that no one who's not a police officer can understand the dynamics? We ENTIRELY rely on those third part non LEo's to meter out the final justice in whichever situation is brought to trial.

Are most LEO's stand up guys with only a few bad apples smattered about? Lets' explore what we know about Police work. We know that it definitely attracts and recruits for the ability to follow orders and a certain surety of mind when it comes to right and wrong, black and white. Critical thinking skills are in fact not recruited for and it's a legally defensible practice to disallow those with above average IQ. (I'll do citations if you need but that case law is cited earlier in the thread. )

Surety of mind. Low IQ. Certainly not a universal and there are many other silos of intelligence to recruit for...so what is it that makes this large preponderance of officers "heroic" because they put themselves in harms way for money. Let's look at other people in similar positions who could be killed on the job.

Commercial Fisherman
Roofer
Heavy Equipment Operator
Firefighter

Are these similarly heroic? Perhaps for some...perhaps not to others. Certainly there are many positions they are in are statistically far more dangerous than police work...but still, police do seem to put themselves purposefully in harms way...why?
God,Country the American way.? Or solid paycheck, ok pension, job prestige? Which is more likely in ANY group or people? Who picks category 1 over 2? Or is it a mix? Which is MORE likely...that heroes walk among us and some fall into police work OR...people who do police work are often in a position to do heroic things?

Again...which is more likely...that a situation makes someone a hero or that they are somehow innately touched?

This leads us to thing 4....we can all agree, the pressured crucible of doing police work allows for extreme situions? Correct...moments of extreme good and selfless action are perhaps MORE possible in this line of work than say, roofing, which is more dangerous but doesn't lend itself to big moves on the altrusim gauge.


With me so far? So we'll all accede that Police work has that aspect to it which allows for extremes....so WHY IN FUX SAKE, do we need to shy away from the fact that HOWEVER rare (and your perspective on rare is just as incomplete and incorrect as mine is) acts of police misconduct are potentially MORE damaging and should be held to a much m ore critical eye for exactly the narrative you have articulated above.

I'll grant you the "heroic" weight of this...

Guys will get in the bag, take roll call, and take care of you and yours....whether you like it or not.

If you'll grant me that when that "guy" fucks shit up, it has a MORE corrosive effect on society than if a roofer drops a bundle of tiles on a toddler, or heavy equipment operator crushers your car. By your own admission, LEO's are entrusted with VAST responsibilities, holding them accountable is therefore MORE important than perhaps any other position in public service. This is simple risk assessment. You engineer public structures for worst case scenario...because when a disaster however rare strikes the public..that's the worst case.

That is my point, that is THE point.

So if the PBA wants to keep defending fuck ups and the local PD's want to keep hiring low IQ idiots, and we as a society want to heap laws on the books while giving the average LEO less training than a Journeyman carpenter.... then yeah...I'll keep bitching, mostly because winding you people up is fun, but also because we have a real problem in this country that's being held hostage by some shitty thinking.

[climber511]

Disregarding for a moment the personality aspects - stronger requirements for admission and long and much more comprehensive training to work in today's social atmosphere would be a start. The schooling required to become an officer most places is not as long as it takes to learn a construction trade and can not and does not cover all the situations they have to deal with in today's world of peoples feelings of entitlement to do what ever the hell they want. Trade apprenticeships often run 4 years - no way you can turn out a ready to go officer in 5 or 6 months.

[Boris]

Your lack of RL experience, like others, in spite of your awesome verbiage, is the issue with the 'diagnosis', I still love 'ya baby, but I know you not a fuck not, about what happens in a moment's notice--and I believe you'll own that. So, there's that little STFU thing going on, on this thread that rates.

Why the hell does one need experience to judge a brutal act by LE?

I guess I shouldn't comment on child molesters in the Roman Catholic Church because I've never been a Catholic, attended a Catholic service, or been a priest?

I shouldn't comment on politicians who suck because I've never been a politician?

It's not hating to call people out on clearly wrong actions.

[Turdacious]

Disregarding for a moment the personality aspects - stronger requirements for admission and long and much more comprehensive training to work in today's social atmosphere would be a start. The schooling required to become an officer most places is not as long as it takes to learn a construction trade and can not and does not cover all the situations they have to deal with in today's world of peoples feelings of entitlement to do what ever the hell they want. Trade apprenticeships often run 4 years - no way you can turn out a ready to go officer in 5 or 6 months.

I doubt that LEO agencies would have a problem with any of that, but they're also aware that you (as a taxpayer) aren't willing to pay for what that would cost. Besides, even the most selective agencies with the most highly trained people still have personnel problems.

[Yes I Have Balls]

If you'll grant me that when that "guy" fucks shit up, it has a MORE corrosive effect on society than if a roofer drops a bundle of tiles on a toddler, or heavy equipment operator crushers your car. By your own admission, LEO's are entrusted with VAST responsibilities, holding them accountable is therefore MORE important than perhaps any other position in public service. This is simple risk assessment. You engineer public structures for worst case scenario...because when a disaster however rare strikes the public..that's the worst case.

/thread

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

Your lack of RL experience, like others, in spite of your awesome verbiage, is the issue with the 'diagnosis', I still love 'ya baby, but I know you not a fuck not, about what happens in a moment's notice--and I believe you'll own that. So, there's that little STFU thing going on, on this thread that rates.

Why the hell does one need experience to judge a brutal act by LE?

I guess I shouldn't comment on child molesters in the Roman Catholic Church because I've never been a Catholic, attended a Catholic service, or been a priest?

I shouldn't comment on politicians who suck because I've never been a politician?

It's not hating to call people out on clearly wrong actions.

No argument from me about anything you stated and I am actually right there with you, save your last sentence. Just because you see it on YouTube or CNN doesn't mean you're seeing clearly wrong actions. Look at that mope in Ferguson, MO. It was absolutely proven that the cop did no wrong, yet it spurred the BLM horseshit and the city even put a $60k monument in his name on the street he was killed. "The map is not the territory, comrade...."

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

I call bullshit. There's no lies of omission here, there's' competing narratives that frame how we should think about the issues

If you can't manage to own a perspective I'll just have to stand by the proxy narrative (which I've heard repeated ad nauseum) , for the good of the order. Not because it's my perspective but because it's a reasonable one. It's a FAIR one and it's what MOST people tend to agree with...and it's also flawed as fuck.

Police work is extremely complicated. People not involved in LE work cannot possible understand the complexity and fluidity of interactions on the street. Most LEO's are stand up guys, even heroic in there tireless desire to get out of bed and do good work. There are a few, terrible apples in the mix as you'd expect in any grouping of people but don't besmirch the good name of LEO's everywhere with incredibly rare examples of misconduct when the reality is that many if not most of the "bad interactions" that we see in the media could be more easily apprehended when viewed through the lense of the men behind the badge.

Police work is undoubtedly complicated. Beyond a shadow of doubt. Is it also true though that people who have not done police work can't possibly parse the situations that arise? No. This is patently false. It is false on several levels. Firstly it is at least partly false because we know categorically that eyewitness accounts (both by witnesses and LE) are tremendously unreliable. Hence body camera being an essential tool on both sides of the badge for outside objective recording of at least some portion of the interactions whatever they are. The brain of anyone involved in stressful interaction becomes addled and the narrative construction begins...ergo, the basic moving pieces and perspective an incident are MORE likely to be perverted by the revision process than those of a third party. This is a human universal and it's well understood in the justice system. Bringing us to thing two.

We know that at least in terms of millions of hours or human practice that the criminal justice system (made up of largely non police officers) is expected and does quite well in a open court setting to get to the bottom of who what when where why. Whether those cases are police misconduct of a garden variety arrest, we rely NOT on the word of the Police as much as a through unveiling of the objective facts to get at the situation. So if a third party can parse the arrest sufficiently after the fact, how is it even conceivable that no one who's not a police officer can understand the dynamics? We ENTIRELY rely on those third part non LEo's to meter out the final justice in whichever situation is brought to trial.

Are most LEO's stand up guys with only a few bad apples smattered about? Lets' explore what we know about Police work. We know that it definitely attracts and recruits for the ability to follow orders and a certain surety of mind when it comes to right and wrong, black and white. Critical thinking skills are in fact not recruited for and it's a legally defensible practice to disallow those with above average IQ. (I'll do citations if you need but that case law is cited earlier in the thread. )

Surety of mind. Low IQ. Certainly not a universal and there are many other silos of intelligence to recruit for...so what is it that makes this large preponderance of officers "heroic" because they put themselves in harms way for money. Let's look at other people in similar positions who could be killed on the job.

Commercial Fisherman
Roofer
Heavy Equipment Operator
Firefighter

Are these similarly heroic? Perhaps for some...perhaps not to others. Certainly there are many positions they are in are statistically far more dangerous than police work...but still, police do seem to put themselves purposefully in harms way...why?
God,Country the American way.? Or solid paycheck, ok pension, job prestige? Which is more likely in ANY group or people? Who picks category 1 over 2? Or is it a mix? Which is MORE likely...that heroes walk among us and some fall into police work OR...people who do police work are often in a position to do heroic things?

Again...which is more likely...that a situation makes someone a hero or that they are somehow innately touched?

This leads us to thing 4....we can all agree, the pressured crucible of doing police work allows for extreme situions? Correct...moments of extreme good and selfless action are perhaps MORE possible in this line of work than say, roofing, which is more dangerous but doesn't lend itself to big moves on the altrusim gauge.


With me so far? So we'll all accede that Police work has that aspect to it which allows for extremes....so WHY IN FUX SAKE, do we need to shy away from the fact that HOWEVER rare (and your perspective on rare is just as incomplete and incorrect as mine is) acts of police misconduct are potentially MORE damaging and should be held to a much m ore critical eye for exactly the narrative you have articulated above.

I'll grant you the "heroic" weight of this...

Guys will get in the bag, take roll call, and take care of you and yours....whether you like it or not.

If you'll grant me that when that "guy" fucks shit up, it has a MORE corrosive effect on society than if a roofer drops a bundle of tiles on a toddler, or heavy equipment operator crushers your car. By your own admission, LEO's are entrusted with VAST responsibilities, holding them accountable is therefore MORE important than perhaps any other position in public service. This is simple risk assessment. You engineer public structures for worst case scenario...because when a disaster however rare strikes the public..that's the worst case.

That is my point, that is THE point.

So if the PBA wants to keep defending fuck ups and the local PD's want to keep hiring low IQ idiots, and we as a society want to heap laws on the books while giving the average LEO less training than a Journeyman carpenter.... then yeah...I'll keep bitching, mostly because winding you people up is fun, but also because we have a real problem in this country that's being held hostage by some shitty thinking.

Your 800 word essay wore me out. I know nothing will change so I will pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win, as Churchill said.

One thing you will always miss and just assume not to be true is that a cop has discretion and that IS critical thinking. And if they (the cops) don't have that, within the community they serve, they should--but that is a political problem, not a cop problem. Another thing is, they're (the cops) almost always at least a tad smarter than the mopes they engage with (talking the actual LE side of the coin during a given shift). Do I think there are stupid motherfuckers running around with a badge and gun? Yes, I do. Do I think they are few and far between? Yes. Given a stupid motherfucking mope and a stupid cop engaged in a 'lawful arrest' situation, do I give the cop the benefit of doubt? Yes, I do...and that is not dogmatic imprinting, that is reality, white boy.

THE point, as you say, is not about pointing out a 1% or whatever, THE point, is that your thread is spin, and you don't even realize you do it (giving you the benefit of doubt). For the third time, it's truly cool by me, it actually makes me chuckle to be honest, I won't be outraged by people who level shit by way of YouTube or CNN and no other bonafide perspective. And my IQ is up there, by the way.

I'd still give you a hug, but not in the shapecharge way. ;-)

[Blaidd Drwg]

THE point, as you say, is not about pointing out a 1% or whatever, THE point, is that your thread is spin, and you don't even realize you do it (giving you the benefit of doubt).

I'd give you a hug old man...but just so you know, the notion that pointing out the OBVIOUS cop problem this country has is somehow "SPIN"...? Holy Shit, Son.

That's fucking repugnant and suggests a bias which is far more deeply ingrained than my own..(Which is clearly delight in) I'm truly sorry that is your burden.

[Blaidd Drwg]

One thing you will always miss and just assume not to be true is that a cop has discretion and that IS critical thinking. And if they (the cops) don't have that, within the community they serve, they should--but that is a political problem, not a cop problem.

I'll just cherry pick this one cause it's so soft.

Firstly. Duh..of course it's "critical thinking"....the question is how well equipped are they to perform it? A toddler assembling blocks is engaging in critical thinking, but they lack the requisite experience to do it well. You may have an IQ that's "up there" (I don't, I'm dead average AFAIK) yet, statistically, cops as class of persons are recruited for the OPPOSITE ...so yeah, cops exercise discretion and critical thinking..but are they equipped (politically/professionally/personally of course) to do it WELL? The answer is often times, NO. At the very least in terms of training and experience and definitely as far as the case law is concerted. The rampant misconduct we see in this country is clear and compelling evidence of that in a profession that WE BOTH agree serves a critical public service.

[Boris]

No argument from me about anything you stated and I am actually right there with you, save your last sentence. Just because you see it on YouTube or CNN doesn't mean you're seeing clearly wrong actions. Look at that mope in Ferguson, MO. It was absolutely proven that the cop did no wrong, yet it spurred the BLM horseshit and the city even put a $60k monument in his name on the street he was killed. "The map is not the territory, comrade...."

There are enough clear examples that I don't think I need to even argue here... If you're going to argue that the Sandra Bland traffic stop was reasonable, then we are completely done here.

[Blaidd Drwg]

No argument from me about anything you stated and I am actually right there with you, save your last sentence. Just because you see it on YouTube or CNN doesn't mean you're seeing clearly wrong actions. Look at that mope in Ferguson, MO. It was absolutely proven that the cop did no wrong, yet it spurred the BLM horseshit and the city even put a $60k monument in his name on the street he was killed. "The map is not the territory, comrade...."

There are enough clear examples that I don't think I need to even argue here... If you're going to argue that the Sandra Bland traffic stop was reasonable, then we are completely done here.

Boris is dead nuts correct on that.

Using Ferguson and the subsequent BLM shit show is a total straw man. However dubious the initial reports, it's abundantly clear that the Ferguson incident was a justifiable use of force by any metric. The Sandra Bland stop and myriad of other bits of unedited footage, first person accounts, and internal LEA/FBI/Justice Dpet reports are quite enough to identify that there's a problem. We don't need to resort to Freddie Gray/Michael Brown strawmen top make the point....a point you'd have to be terminally biased to not acknowledge.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

No argument from me about anything you stated and I am actually right there with you, save your last sentence. Just because you see it on YouTube or CNN doesn't mean you're seeing clearly wrong actions. Look at that mope in Ferguson, MO. It was absolutely proven that the cop did no wrong, yet it spurred the BLM horseshit and the city even put a $60k monument in his name on the street he was killed. "The map is not the territory, comrade...."

There are enough clear examples that I don't think I need to even argue here... If you're going to argue that the Sandra Bland traffic stop was reasonable, then we are completely done here.

Boris is dead nuts correct on that.

Using Ferguson and the subsequent BLM shit show is a total straw man. However dubious the initial reports, it's abundantly clear that the Ferguson incident was a justifiable use of force by any metric. The Sandra Bland stop and myriad of other bits of unedited footage, first person accounts, and internal LEA/FBI/Justice Dpet reports are quite enough to identify that there's a problem. We don't need to resort to Freddie Gray/Michael Brown strawmen top make the point....a point you'd have to be terminally biased to not acknowledge.

The car stop from get go was bullshit, and he escalated the situation by saying 'you seem upset' or whatever he said. My lilly white blonde wife was pulled over and summonsed last year for a similar bullshit violation and I think the fine was $140 or something....pretty sure I posted that, here, but it's not just a black thing. It still infuriates me. But as a cop, I was 'lucky' in the sense we were so busy with other shit where I worked that we were not pressured hard for anything but two red lights, per month (there was federal funding involved with red lights), and, let's face it, you blow a red light or a stop sign and you should be pulled over and summonsed--apologies for that tangent. Personally, since I left 'the job' I have been pulled over by a NC State Trooper; a Kentucky State Trooper; and two cops in MN, for a total of four times. (I like to drive fast, but have settled it down, mostly....ok, a little). Every single time I was treated well....but I was compliant.

Please don't sit there and think for a heartbeat, that I don't think there are problems. I do believe they are very rare and along the lines of drunken airline pilots, if there were anyway to vet out those comparisons. I worry when I look at pilots on planes I board and see kids that are still popping zits at the stick and wonder how many Red Bulls and vodka shots they had.

I worry about cops, too. I know one cop here in MN, he is a former starting DE from Syracuse and an absolute monster with the whole stereotypical shaved head thing going on that a lot of cops seem to love these days, but he is a very good dude, nice guy. The relevance is, his bearing makes his life as a cop easier, IMO. Give me a cop of average intelligence who is confident in handling themselves over a really smart cop (or a dolt, of course), who might have confidence issues, all day long. What I am saying, and I have said it before, you want patrol cops who can keep a cool head, first and foremost, who can problem solve, who have 'soft skills', and who are not worried about handling you if you choose to resist.

I would totally be worried about lawyers, and hope to never have to engage them again. I also worry about doctors who are stuck spending more time in front of a computer screen entering shit into Epic to cover their asses (Thanks, Obama!).

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

Relevant:

[Boris]

Quotas, without a doubt, encourage f-ed up behavior.

It's why the whole "What gets measured, gets managed" idea (when not tempered by the idea of "Not everything that matters can be measured and not everything that is measured matters") can go really, really wrong.

(from 17 minutes in) "Is That Tape Recorder in Your Pocket, or Are You Just Unhappy to See Me?"
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... lent?act=2

[Turdacious]

Looks like shit's about to get ugly in Texas.

A video that's gone viral in a matter of hours shows a white Fort Worth officer arresting a black woman and her teenage daughter who said they called for help after a white man allegedly choked a child.

The nearly six minute video that Porsha Craver posted on Facebook Wednesday shows the incident escalating. It's been viewed more than 750,000 times, as of 10 a.m. Thursday.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/20 ... n-daughter

[Turdacious]

And just when you thought it couldn't get worse...

In response to a program last month where Fort Worth police gave away turkeys during traffic stops for Thanksgiving, officers partnered with an animal rights group on Wednesday to hand out Tofurky and vegan desserts. Officers, along with People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and Spiral Diner, are handing out vegan turkey substitutes for the holidays. "Inside this box there's gravy and a brownie and everything you need for a holiday meal!" said one PETA volunteer.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Fort-W ... 61175.html
That's just dickish.

[milosz]

Spiral Diner is particularly shitty for vegan food. If a vegan has functional taste buds, they better get used to living on Indian food.

One of their bakers is an A+ lay, though.

[Turdacious]

Nuisance Abatement in NYC

The article presents pros and cons of the policy. But abused? Yeah.

[JimZipCode]

Officer Who Shot and Killed Innocent Man in His Own Home Cannot Be Sued

Deputy Richard Sylvester ... failed to identify himself as a law enforcement officer at any point. He had no warrant and no reason to suspect that Scott or his girlfriend had committed a crime. He did not attempt to engage with Scott at all after he opened the door; he simply shot him dead. And on Thursday, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit held that Scott’s parents and girlfriend cannot sue Sylvester because the officer’s conduct was not “clearly” illegal.

The article makes an interesting point: the court's ruling implies that citizens who exercise their second amendment rights, in practice give up some of their fourth amendment rights. The writer says that SCOTUS needs to wade into this area.

[Testiclaw]

Officer Who Shot and Killed Innocent Man in His Own Home Cannot Be Sued

Deputy Richard Sylvester ... failed to identify himself as a law enforcement officer at any point. He had no warrant and no reason to suspect that Scott or his girlfriend had committed a crime. He did not attempt to engage with Scott at all after he opened the door; he simply shot him dead. And on Thursday, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit held that Scott’s parents and girlfriend cannot sue Sylvester because the officer’s conduct was not “clearly” illegal.

The article makes an interesting point: the court's ruling implies that citizens who exercise their second amendment rights, in practice give up some of their fourth amendment rights. The writer says that SCOTUS needs to wade into this area.

Jesus.