The Brown Horde

[DrDonkeyLove]

M.G. Oprea in the Federalist

More to the point, Europe was uncomfortable asking its Muslim communities to assimilate. European leaders felt that would be too reminiscent of the colonial era. Their guilt and newfound “enlightenment” guided them to leave these people to their communities, culture, and religion. At the same time, however, they also ostracized them. What resulted was tight-knit majority-Muslim enclaves often on the outskirts of major European cities (like Saint Denis on the outer edge of Paris, where one of the Paris attackers was found).

They are loyal, at best, to the local Muslim community with whom they share a sense of solidarity, or in its worst manifestations, to ISIS and its global sense of destiny.
These communities are volatile places that are not dissimilar, in some ways, to certain American inner cities. They remain close-knit via shared language, Arabic, shared religion, Islam, and a continued influx of immigration from their countries of origin. This is no longer just family reunification. It is common, for example, for second- and third-generation North African immigrants to look to their ancestral home for a spouse. This is most common among men. They want a woman uncorrupted by European values. These marriage practices keep a continuous supply of first-generation mothers having second-generation children.

These problems have now come home to roost. Europe has on its hands millions of Muslims, many of whom, although certainly not all, identify first as Muslims and second as Europeans. They are loyal, at best, to the local Muslim community with whom they share a sense of solidarity, or in its worst manifestations, to ISIS and its global sense of destiny. This manifests itself in its most extreme in attacking the great evil that is the West—even if it has been their home for their entire life. But, as has played out in the last few months, it is also manifesting itself in a large community of people willing to aid and abet terrorist networks in Europe.

Obama, the Hilldemon, and other assorted libs first response to Islamofascist attacks is always to prattle about our "values", raising the false flag of racism by the people being victimized, and to set up the straw man argument that we can't fight the world's 1.6 billion muslims.

I hate to use the term world leader and Trump in the same sentence but he's the only major person on the world stage who's confronting the issue directly. His prescriptions might be stupid but are they more stupid than Merkel's with her resettlement of 1,000,000 unvetted people who come directly from the heart of the enemy's territory?

Two world views are contributing to the destruction of Europe and the west. First, Islamism and second the Progressive catechism is so invested in diversity, colonial guilt, fear of racism, and lack of love for their own culture, that they'd rather sacrifice their culture and their lives than initiate prudent immigration policies.

The citizenry know that the deaths in these unending horrific attacks are an accepted collateral damage of their leaders' policies. Trump is a relatively benign US response to the Progressive religion of diversity at all costs. What comes out of Europe could be much worse.

What exactly is Trump doing to confront the issue directly? Over here in the UK, all I caught was a slew of rhetoric about "hitting them hard" without anything concrete behind it. How will he hit them? What are his plans?

The primary thing I've seen him do is to state our obvious immigration problems, which is not common amongst our politicians here. I don't know if he has any coherent plans - I doubt it. As a civil libertarian I'll probably hate whatever his plans are should he become president.

[The Ginger Beard Man]

Beer Jew, "a slew of rhetoric" is all Trump has. Well, he also has a willingness to call a spade a spade, which no other politician has. And yes, he is a politician.

[Kazuya Mishima]

First step in solving a problem is admitting it exists...he at least brings that to the table.

[Yes I Have Balls]

26 people killed in Europe "CLOSE THE BORDER KILL THE MUSLIMS!"!"!@"!@"!"

26 American citizens killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School, "That's the price we pay for freedom in the greatest mother fucking country in the world!"

*shrugemoji*

[Blaidd Drwg]

It just didn't really help to spend a lot of time making a big deal out of the fact that the targets were Islamic terrorists when the partners were Islamic partners. We all knew who we were hunting.

This is more reasonable than I'd like to give credit to...but it's a point well taken.

OTOH..it's instructive to note that the reason this sensitivity exists is not because we're such polite fellows, and our partners are suck sensitive fellows...it's becuase sympathy for the mean and methods of our enemy run very very deep even with "moderate" Muslims in the west.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the- ... -overview/

[Turdacious]

26 people killed in Europe "CLOSE THE BORDER KILL THE MUSLIMS!"!"!@"!@"!"

26 American citizens killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School, "That's the price we pay for freedom in the greatest mother fucking country in the world!"

*shrugemoji*

Feeling the Bern?

[Turdacious]

What role does our robust and moderately intrusive security apparatus play in keeping us safe? Keeping high risk people out is only part of the equation.

[nafod]

So here's an example...
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2012/d ... rror-group

The case began in 2005 with a tip from someone in the Muslim community that one of its members was becoming radicalized.

[Blaidd Drwg]

So here's an example...
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2012/d ... rror-group

The case began in 2005 with a tip from someone in the Muslim community that one of its members was becoming radicalized.

Honest query...and I don;t know that it's even a fair one...

Is this the exception that proves your rule? How often is the reverse true wherein people did;t want to seem "racist" / bigoted, so they didnt speak up? We know of at least one recent example.

[nafod]

So here's an example...
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2012/d ... rror-group

The case began in 2005 with a tip from someone in the Muslim community that one of its members was becoming radicalized.

Honest query...and I don;t know that it's even a fair one...

Is this the exception that proves your rule? How often is the reverse true wherein people did;t want to seem "racist" / bigoted, so they didnt speak up? We know of at least one recent example.

I don't know. I just googled on plot to attack Quantico, which I remembered about. I didn't know it was from a tip. I figured it was from monitoring Internet traffic overseas.

[DrDonkeyLove]

26 people killed in Europe "CLOSE THE BORDER KILL THE MUSLIMS!"!"!@"!@"!"

26 American citizens killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School, "That's the price we pay for freedom in the greatest mother fucking country in the world!"

*shrugemoji*

Lots of laws were passed after Sandy Hook that restricted people's 2nd amendment rights (see NYSAFE act as one example). Hillary is partially running on increasing those restrictions so the issue remains viable for the left.

Trump's wrong about not letting Muslims into the country but Obama wants to add >10,000 improperly vetted Syrians. Merkel's let in a million poorly vetted Muslims. Hard for me to tell who's crazier.

[Yes I Have Balls]

Lots of laws were passed after Sandy Hook that restricted people's 2nd amendment rights (see NYSAFE act as one example).

It might be splitting hairs, but I don't see how NYSAFE denied anyone's 2A rights? IMO, many of those additional criteria need to be adopted on the national level.

Oh, and Al-Qaeda killed 20+ more people at a resort in the Ivory Coast and no one cares because it's not Western Europe.

[Testiclaw]

Christianity kept its hold simply because it was there first.

Christianity has eventually been tempered by modernity, and secular society gaining small bits of responsibility.

Because Islam is relatively new compared to the Abrahamic religions it has plagiarized, it it hundreds of years behind the times in terms of religion growing pains and secular moderation.

The left makes the mistake of letting Islam gain footholds in modern society via their brute inability to accurately assess threats in the name of "equality" and "bigotry".

[Blaidd Drwg]

Oh, and Al-Qaeda killed 20+ more people at a resort in the Ivory Coast and no one cares because it's not Western Europe.

Your bit about the 2A is ludicrous but we all know it's just bait. All gun laws to some degree limit 2A rights, the question is how much and whether this is a reasonable.

As for the Ivory Coast i heard this little metaphor.

If I wake up and head to the bathroom only to find there's shit in the toilet I tend not to get worked up. If instead I wake up to find shit on my kitchen table??? Well now that's a problem.

[Yes, I'm drunk]

Christianity kept its hold simply because it was there first.

Christianity has eventually been tempered by modernity, and secular society gaining small bits of responsibility.

Because Islam is relatively new compared to the Abrahamic religions it has plagiarized, it it hundreds of years behind the times in terms of religion growing pains and secular moderation.

The left makes the mistake of letting Islam gain footholds in modern society via their brute inability to accurately assess threats in the name of "equality" and "bigotry".

LOL! So let's just hope that progressivism holds back the Muslim hordes for another 500 years - when up till now in Europe it hasn't even been able to hold them back for 50!

[Testiclaw]

Christianity kept its hold simply because it was there first.

Christianity has eventually been tempered by modernity, and secular society gaining small bits of responsibility.

Because Islam is relatively new compared to the Abrahamic religions it has plagiarized, it it hundreds of years behind the times in terms of religion growing pains and secular moderation.

The left makes the mistake of letting Islam gain footholds in modern society via their brute inability to accurately assess threats in the name of "equality" and "bigotry".

LOL! So let's just hope that progressivism holds back the Muslim hordes for another 500 years - when up till now in Europe it hasn't even been able to hold them back for 50!

Uh, that's not what I want, or am hoping for, at all.

We have to make Islam and its doctrines open and fair to criticize, and criticize brutally. The stakes are simply to high to wait for modernity to clash and reform Islam alone.

I don't want to hold back a Muslim horde. What I do want is for those in the secular west, liberals particularly, to understand the danger that Islamist pose, and, to knock off their "voice of equality" when discussing religion.

"All religions are bad"

"Not all muslims are violent"

"They should be free to practice whatever they want, in whatever way they want"

These do nothing but muddy waters of a critically important discussion. The threat we face from Islam is lightyears ahead of the subsequent threats we face from the other Abrahamic religions.

What I'm saying is this: we don't have the comfort, for lack of a better term, to let Islam reform from the natural, inevitable clash with modernity and secular intersect that both Judaism and Christianity have, to a large extent, already experienced.

The first step is to openly, honestly, and accurately Starr talking about what Islam preaches, and what to do about it.

Do you finally get what I'm saying?

[Blaidd Drwg]

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the- ... -overview/


It's worth a look at the attitudes of Muslims worldwide on issue related to living peacefully in a secular society. You might take hear that for instance a majority of Muslims in many European countries do not want Sharia law to be the law of the land.

OTOH, you might be quite revolted to see that military age males in countries like France and England think that suicide bombing is justified.

[Sangoma]

Ah, never mind.

[The Ginger Beard Man]

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the- ... -overview/


It's worth a look at the attitudes of Muslims worldwide on issue related to living peacefully in a secular society. You might take hear that for instance a majority of Muslims in many European countries do not want Sharia law to be the law of the land.

OTOH, you might be quite revolted to see that military age males in countries like France and England think that suicide bombing is justified.

I may be missing something, but I don't see much cause for optimism in those stats.
I try not to be too anti Muslim, but it's hard. I mean, I know Muslims, i work with them and I see them walking around my neighborhood, running their businesses all over town, and I know they are just people who work and try to care for their families. I know that refugees taken into the US through the UNHCR refugee program are a safe bet, and I know that Trump and Cruz have some outrageous, unconstitutional, and frankly immoral ideas about how we should treat Muslims.
I know Muslims suffer more than anyone at the hands of Islamists, and that is part of why Nafod is 100% correct about the need to keep them as allies.
I also know that this POS Abdelsalaam who was arrested in Brussels last week was wanted for four months, and yet he could go out in public in Mollenbeek and it took four fucking months before someone dropped a dime.
I know that Muslims in NYC and Jersey City celebrated on 9/11. That might not be a popular statement with some people here, but it is undeniable.
This is some complicated shit and I'm not going to pretend to know the answer, but I have to be convinced that Majad Nawiz is not a rare exception.

[Blaidd Drwg]

I was trying to be charitable....it's fucking horrifying.

That said, if you asked similar questions of Bible Belt Fundies you might get answers that chill you to the bone.

You're right in that Maajid is a rare ...very rare exception, so is Ayaan Hirsi Ali. That's precisely why we DO need to keep some situational awareness about checking rampant blanket Islamophobia. The way out of this morass is not solo...it's gonna require Muslim partners...specifically Sunni Muslim partners who have developed a taste for secular governance. Islam, cannot be burned out of existence (Srry Drath)...it has to be drug kicking and screaming to its own Enlightenment until it Islam in large parts is as neutered and benign (I'm gagging here) as the Catholic Church. That's using Reason to fix the unreasonable. It's happened before. It can happen again.

[The Ginger Beard Man]

No need to gag. We papists joined the modern world long ago.

[Blaidd Drwg]

No need to gag. We papists joined the modern world long ago.

That's news to a whole bunch of constipated self hating Irishmen

[Gene]

26 people killed in Europe "CLOSE THE BORDER KILL THE MUSLIMS!"!"!@"!@"!"

26 American citizens killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School, "That's the price we pay for freedom in the greatest mother fucking country in the world!"

*shrugemoji*

Not quite.... Diane Feinstein proposed a law that would force owners of "assault weapons" to register their firearms as AOW (any other weapon) with the AFT as part of the NFA registry. The procedure for obtaining an AOW would require each owner to go to a local law enforcement person, who would attest that they knew of no reason why the owner shouldn't be allowed to own the firearm. They would pay a modest transfer tax and surrender fingerprints.

Sounds completely reasonable, until you realize that there are 10,000,000 such firearms in private hands. The ATF is tasked with regulating 125,000 automatic firearms on the NFA registry. They require up to nine months to process a transfer. Do the arithmetic.

Signers of Form 3s have been subject to lawsuit. Gun owners would have been left with a cruel choice - not cooperate and become a felon, attempt to register, have their request turned down and then have to surrender said firearm to law enforcement.

These complications inspired sixty Senators to reject her hare brained scheme. Wasn't about "merukan values" but because Diane Feinstein and the Democrats are once again playing politics.

http://www.examiner.com/article/feinste ... gun-owners

[Gene]

Lots of laws were passed after Sandy Hook that restricted people's 2nd amendment rights (see NYSAFE act as one example).

It might be splitting hairs, but I don't see how NYSAFE denied anyone's 2A rights? IMO, many of those additional criteria need to be adopted on the national level.

If you think that "society" needs to pick and chose what is a legal firearm that's your affair. If your opinion was the majority we would have such laws.

The NY SAFE act was in part written by Bloomberg lobbyists. Here is the Mayor asking that New York State NGs not patrol the city. Only guns under his control are acceptable.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltI_CHa3Qpc[/youtube]

Such a sick mind requires help. His twisted policies should be resisted.

The whole "assault weapon" hysteria is irrational - they're so rarely used in crime that the FBI doesn't break them out of "rifles" as a separate category. Best estimate are 300 deaths a year. Three hundred tragedies, out of hundreds of thousands of deaths, some of them preventable. In light of 10,000,000 in private hands and so few shootings with them, it's a waste of resources to ban them.

Magazine capacity limits? Pointless...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjnsBH9jGxc[/youtube]

Handguns are used in most shootings. Nobody is going to tackle handguns because nobody has a substitute for them. We can't be like Mayor Bloomberg and hire body guards.

[nafod]

I don't want to hold back a Muslim horde. What I do want is for those in the secular west, liberals particularly, to understand the danger that Islamist pose, and, to knock off their "voice of equality" when discussing religion.

"All religions are bad"

"Not all muslims are violent"

"They should be free to practice whatever they want, in whatever way they want"

These do nothing but muddy waters of a critically important discussion. The threat we face from Islam is lightyears ahead of the subsequent threats we face from the other Abrahamic religions.

Yeah, I was kind of proud of the liberal folk when they came up with "Draw a picture of Mohammed" day. Perfect way to bring their most heart-felt beliefs on freedom of expression to bear on matter at hand, even if it did piss off some folk. Until they got threatened and decided they were being rude and should be more considerate to religionists, at least the ones threatening to kill them. Big sigh.

There is a saying that demographics is destiny, and the demographics are in favor of the fast breeders. Muslims overall tend to have a replacement ratio of 3.1 (3 kids per mom) while the modern people are in 2s, or even less than two, which means the populations are shrinking since about 2.1 is break even.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth

This is a problem that will be around for our grandchildren. No quick fixes. No quick dash into ISIS-stan to smite the foe and move on.