WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Moderator: Dux
WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
USA! USA! USA!
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Yes, he has very little chance of winning.
Yes, Silva is probably the most talented fighter in the octagon ever.
And yes, Silva may actually kill him.
But war Sonnen, American Hero, troll of the millennium, wrestler extraordinaire.
First fight I have been psyched for in a long, long time.
Yes, Silva is probably the most talented fighter in the octagon ever.
And yes, Silva may actually kill him.
But war Sonnen, American Hero, troll of the millennium, wrestler extraordinaire.
First fight I have been psyched for in a long, long time.
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
From: http://mymma.tk
Trips & Slams
Sonnen is known of his control; as are most high level wrestlers. Sonnen adds to this this his fast paced barrage of varying attacks. One being mat returns (essentially a back slam for you non wrestlers). Early on in any wrestling career this technique is learned to keep those really good scramblers on their toes. Sonnen makes great use of this technique to transition to the back and throw his hooks in. Also his use of punches to the head draws Okami’s hands away from his waist, this allows Sonnen to really set up his mat return rather than rush it. The distraction as simple as it is; is not used nearly enough to set up take downs/slams etc. Lastly notice Sonnen does not slam him flat he puts him on his side. Okami’s initial reaction is to regain his base. That allows Sonnen to throw his right leg in while Okami starts to base up.
This looks like a good old ’5 on 2′ from wrestling. Chael does a psuedo-outside trip with his right leg digging his knee into Okami’s hips. Watch as Sonnen switches from a over under to sort of high crotch placement with his left arm. Then driving leftwards and driving with his hips shoot Okami’s legs right out from under him. As well as being an unorthodox take down it grants the aggressor a pass directly into side control or at the very least half guard.
Now this is more of a high crotch (name is self explanatory). Sonnen gets in deep cant get the double so he transitions to the high crotch (kind of). Then proceeds to muscle it akin to what Cormier did to Barnett in Strikeforce. A few nuances that really bring it all together are his left hands placement and posturing. Look at his hand he shoots it up to the sky while completing the move. It allows him to latch on to it easily if he chooses to and to drive his arm in deeper gaining leverage.
I’d like to point out the torque and power Chael creates going through his inside trip. Sonnen completely commits causing a powerful trip with zero resistance. Again watch his head where he points it is where his opponent travels.
Trips & Slams
Sonnen is known of his control; as are most high level wrestlers. Sonnen adds to this this his fast paced barrage of varying attacks. One being mat returns (essentially a back slam for you non wrestlers). Early on in any wrestling career this technique is learned to keep those really good scramblers on their toes. Sonnen makes great use of this technique to transition to the back and throw his hooks in. Also his use of punches to the head draws Okami’s hands away from his waist, this allows Sonnen to really set up his mat return rather than rush it. The distraction as simple as it is; is not used nearly enough to set up take downs/slams etc. Lastly notice Sonnen does not slam him flat he puts him on his side. Okami’s initial reaction is to regain his base. That allows Sonnen to throw his right leg in while Okami starts to base up.
This looks like a good old ’5 on 2′ from wrestling. Chael does a psuedo-outside trip with his right leg digging his knee into Okami’s hips. Watch as Sonnen switches from a over under to sort of high crotch placement with his left arm. Then driving leftwards and driving with his hips shoot Okami’s legs right out from under him. As well as being an unorthodox take down it grants the aggressor a pass directly into side control or at the very least half guard.
Now this is more of a high crotch (name is self explanatory). Sonnen gets in deep cant get the double so he transitions to the high crotch (kind of). Then proceeds to muscle it akin to what Cormier did to Barnett in Strikeforce. A few nuances that really bring it all together are his left hands placement and posturing. Look at his hand he shoots it up to the sky while completing the move. It allows him to latch on to it easily if he chooses to and to drive his arm in deeper gaining leverage.
I’d like to point out the torque and power Chael creates going through his inside trip. Sonnen completely commits causing a powerful trip with zero resistance. Again watch his head where he points it is where his opponent travels.
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
The Shot
The set up for this shot is awesome. A hopping front kick to create the momentum, and to make make Marquardt attack high causing him to overextend. This lets Chael duck right under Marquardt. The execution is a thing of beauty Sonnen gets quite deep, and if you notice Nate is caught completely off guard and can’t really get a sprawl off. Also at the end text book wrestling; Sonnen cuts the angle getting Nate off the cage to avoid the walk up.
Another great shot here. Sonnen originally attempts the double but immediately transitions to a sort of single leg with an ankle pick (some still consider it a double leg I honestly don’t) once he realizes Nate’s feet are very narrow. Sonnen yanks the left foot in causing Nate to land on his side allowing for a more varied of options when he went to pass. This is about shot but the heaviness he creates with his hips is really nice at the end going for the side control pass.
Chael does it again with that double leg. Okami has great take down defense so this is quite a feat. Sonnen’s timing here is impeccable. He tosses out a jab hoping Okami would come over with a straight right or hook and indeed Okami throws the right. Sonnen glides right under the punch and gets nice and deep; pulling Okami’s right leg in so when he turns the corner its already off the ground and makes it that much easier for Sonnen to capitalize and work for the pass. One small thing that is constantly used in wrestling but sadly isn’t really implemented much in mma is the wrist control from the take down. Chael immediately looks for Okami’s arm/wrist as soon as they hit the mat to avoid any ‘popping up’ and getting back to his feet. The technique is simple but underutilized.
This shot against Bisping is very similar, but knowing Bisping’s style he doesn’t have to force him to over extend him self. Bisping was back pedaling, but was throwing a lot of left hooks and jabs. This allowed Sonnen to pop right under Bispings guard and get in deep. Bisping’s over extension really obvious; when Sonnen blasts into him one can see he bends over the top. A few things are different and ‘freestyled’. Bisping has relatively good take down defense and he backs up and works the head which is good, but Chael feels he wont be able to get Bisping going right so he cuts the angle. Using the cage Sonnen bumps Bisping off of it to create some momentum and turns him right on to his back. This really threw of Bisping and allowed Sonnen to Capitalize.
Sonnen makes great use of the cage again. Sonnen keeps his right shoulder driving into Bisping’s left hip and uses great head control (the head points where you want to put your opponent). Chael does a few things that really well here. Notice when Chael gets Bisping’s base to break down he rips his right leg across his body, and Sonnen throws his hips to the right completely tangling Bisping up. This allows Chael to work further up Bispings guard. I will go into more detail about this later, but Chaels amazing use of leg control after the take down for Ground and pound as well as passing is second to none. Something anyone can implement.
The set up for this shot is awesome. A hopping front kick to create the momentum, and to make make Marquardt attack high causing him to overextend. This lets Chael duck right under Marquardt. The execution is a thing of beauty Sonnen gets quite deep, and if you notice Nate is caught completely off guard and can’t really get a sprawl off. Also at the end text book wrestling; Sonnen cuts the angle getting Nate off the cage to avoid the walk up.
Another great shot here. Sonnen originally attempts the double but immediately transitions to a sort of single leg with an ankle pick (some still consider it a double leg I honestly don’t) once he realizes Nate’s feet are very narrow. Sonnen yanks the left foot in causing Nate to land on his side allowing for a more varied of options when he went to pass. This is about shot but the heaviness he creates with his hips is really nice at the end going for the side control pass.
Chael does it again with that double leg. Okami has great take down defense so this is quite a feat. Sonnen’s timing here is impeccable. He tosses out a jab hoping Okami would come over with a straight right or hook and indeed Okami throws the right. Sonnen glides right under the punch and gets nice and deep; pulling Okami’s right leg in so when he turns the corner its already off the ground and makes it that much easier for Sonnen to capitalize and work for the pass. One small thing that is constantly used in wrestling but sadly isn’t really implemented much in mma is the wrist control from the take down. Chael immediately looks for Okami’s arm/wrist as soon as they hit the mat to avoid any ‘popping up’ and getting back to his feet. The technique is simple but underutilized.
This shot against Bisping is very similar, but knowing Bisping’s style he doesn’t have to force him to over extend him self. Bisping was back pedaling, but was throwing a lot of left hooks and jabs. This allowed Sonnen to pop right under Bispings guard and get in deep. Bisping’s over extension really obvious; when Sonnen blasts into him one can see he bends over the top. A few things are different and ‘freestyled’. Bisping has relatively good take down defense and he backs up and works the head which is good, but Chael feels he wont be able to get Bisping going right so he cuts the angle. Using the cage Sonnen bumps Bisping off of it to create some momentum and turns him right on to his back. This really threw of Bisping and allowed Sonnen to Capitalize.
Sonnen makes great use of the cage again. Sonnen keeps his right shoulder driving into Bisping’s left hip and uses great head control (the head points where you want to put your opponent). Chael does a few things that really well here. Notice when Chael gets Bisping’s base to break down he rips his right leg across his body, and Sonnen throws his hips to the right completely tangling Bisping up. This allows Chael to work further up Bispings guard. I will go into more detail about this later, but Chaels amazing use of leg control after the take down for Ground and pound as well as passing is second to none. Something anyone can implement.
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
I hope Sonnen wins.
Me thinks you have a man crush Fats.
Me thinks you have a man crush Fats.
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Ground & Pound - Top Control
Against the cage Sonnen is a bit of an artist. Using his his Sonnen grinds his hips into the legs of Mardquardt pounding him effectively to pass the guard. Its actions like this that make Chael a ground specialist. Initially Chael its him with a beg left on the ground and quickly thrusts his hips into Marquardts legs bowing his legs out to eliminate space.The Sonnen drops his left knee than posts out his right to keep pressure against Marquardt and his body against the cage sideways. One of the more interesting ways to pass to side control.
This belongs to both top control, and Ground and pound, but the highlight of this is the basic but very applicable striking from top Chael uses. Sonnen buries head deep into Marquardts chest, keeping his right arm tucked against the hips. This allows Chael to throw barrages of pelting strikes at Nate’s head with out recourse. Honestly it isn’t going to get a KO in all likeliness, but it will wear them down and definitely is winning the match.
This isn’t a crazy move or spectacular in any way its just how Sonnen forces the transition on a guy who is weak by no means. Only thing to really point out here is how with his left arm Chael cups the back of Bisping’s head and attempts to crank while transitioning to the mount.
Chael is in trouble here, but only a grinder would he would do this. Sonnen starts hitting Miller in the face with hammerfists creating a bit of space. Once he opens that up he pushes Miller’s face further to distract him and thran gets head head out from under his leg eliminating the arm bar threat. While his submission defense isn’t the best he will not give up and be as creative as he needs to be to survive.
Wrist control from top is rarely implemented and here Sonnen uses it to great effect. His top elbow is brutal to say the least and the circling of the wrist to free it from his opponents grasp as well to set up an elbow are not really used and this is a great use of it. Rather sitting on his knees Sonnen is posted out and only drops when he throws the strike to really get his weight into the strike.
This is a prime example of Chael’s wrist control, ground pound and his uses of them to get in on his opponent. Sonnen drives his hips into Millers legs, and controls his wrists and when Miller attempts to push him off he grabs his ankles and forces them down further compacting the BJJ black belt. Allowing for more Ground and pound. The main point about his wrist control is how he forces the elbows out weakening any attempt at pushing upwards from bottom by Miller.
Again this is quite similar to the image above, but the main focus of this trade between Miller and Chael is ankle control by Sonnen. Everyone knows the guy on bottom will use up kicks and push off the top guy to get back to his feet. Chael grabs Millers left leg with his right arm than fakes going for the other leg and throws a really explosive over hand right to Miller while hes on the ground. This is a great set up and it all starts with ankle control. Many guys will get high posture and thrust their hips in but they don’t get really good control of the legs of their opponent. This is key to first avoid getting kicked in the face and second to get in on someone deep in the corner of the cage.
Against the cage Sonnen is a bit of an artist. Using his his Sonnen grinds his hips into the legs of Mardquardt pounding him effectively to pass the guard. Its actions like this that make Chael a ground specialist. Initially Chael its him with a beg left on the ground and quickly thrusts his hips into Marquardts legs bowing his legs out to eliminate space.The Sonnen drops his left knee than posts out his right to keep pressure against Marquardt and his body against the cage sideways. One of the more interesting ways to pass to side control.
This belongs to both top control, and Ground and pound, but the highlight of this is the basic but very applicable striking from top Chael uses. Sonnen buries head deep into Marquardts chest, keeping his right arm tucked against the hips. This allows Chael to throw barrages of pelting strikes at Nate’s head with out recourse. Honestly it isn’t going to get a KO in all likeliness, but it will wear them down and definitely is winning the match.
This isn’t a crazy move or spectacular in any way its just how Sonnen forces the transition on a guy who is weak by no means. Only thing to really point out here is how with his left arm Chael cups the back of Bisping’s head and attempts to crank while transitioning to the mount.
Chael is in trouble here, but only a grinder would he would do this. Sonnen starts hitting Miller in the face with hammerfists creating a bit of space. Once he opens that up he pushes Miller’s face further to distract him and thran gets head head out from under his leg eliminating the arm bar threat. While his submission defense isn’t the best he will not give up and be as creative as he needs to be to survive.
Wrist control from top is rarely implemented and here Sonnen uses it to great effect. His top elbow is brutal to say the least and the circling of the wrist to free it from his opponents grasp as well to set up an elbow are not really used and this is a great use of it. Rather sitting on his knees Sonnen is posted out and only drops when he throws the strike to really get his weight into the strike.
This is a prime example of Chael’s wrist control, ground pound and his uses of them to get in on his opponent. Sonnen drives his hips into Millers legs, and controls his wrists and when Miller attempts to push him off he grabs his ankles and forces them down further compacting the BJJ black belt. Allowing for more Ground and pound. The main point about his wrist control is how he forces the elbows out weakening any attempt at pushing upwards from bottom by Miller.
Again this is quite similar to the image above, but the main focus of this trade between Miller and Chael is ankle control by Sonnen. Everyone knows the guy on bottom will use up kicks and push off the top guy to get back to his feet. Chael grabs Millers left leg with his right arm than fakes going for the other leg and throws a really explosive over hand right to Miller while hes on the ground. This is a great set up and it all starts with ankle control. Many guys will get high posture and thrust their hips in but they don’t get really good control of the legs of their opponent. This is key to first avoid getting kicked in the face and second to get in on someone deep in the corner of the cage.
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Dunn wrote:I hope Sonnen wins.
Me thinks you have a man crush Fats.
If that's what they call double-barreled patriotism around your knitting circle pal!
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Actually, it's more about the wrestling. I love jiujitsu, but I admire wrestling. That plus Sonnen's trolling bring him to the apex of the sport for me.
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Agreed. His wrestling is some of the best that has graced the octagon. His overall control is fucking crazy.
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Funny you mention control, because...
Back Control
In wrestling leg riding is really prevalent especially on the collegiate scene. Chael being a Division one all American from the University of Oregon got quite good at leg riding. Instead of throwing both hooks in Chael throws in his right leg laying perpendicular to Mardquardt. While their are less submissions from here there is a lot more control and much less of a chance of escape if used correctly. Chael drives his hips into Mardquardt making sure to keep his legs spread as much as possible. When Nate attempts to throw Chael off his back Chael shoots arm catching Nate's to slow the throw. Also his strong hip control and leg ride keep him nice and snug allowing for endless amounts of pounding of the sides of the opponent. This is a staple of any grinders arsenal and can be used quite well against a someone who has the upper hand in BJJ or grappling in general. This can be used to take control of the fight and wear them down. I know its been mentioned but Sonnen’s balance is really a something to be admired here. Most men would have lost position and be on the losing end of a ground and pound attack
Here later in the fight Nate is successful in up heaving Sonnen from the leg ride, but another amazing presentation of balance by Sonnen foils Nate’s escape plans. Chael posts heavy with his left arm driving Nate down to the ground. When Nate starts to settle Sonnen is able to post with his right arm as well floating on top of Nate’s guard until he lands in half guard.
This simple but another great use of the leg ride. Sonnen has the one hook in while Okami blocks him from coming in with the other. So Chael throws his hips to the left back, and flings his leg backwards widening Okami’s hips allowing Chael to throw in his other hook.
Back Control
In wrestling leg riding is really prevalent especially on the collegiate scene. Chael being a Division one all American from the University of Oregon got quite good at leg riding. Instead of throwing both hooks in Chael throws in his right leg laying perpendicular to Mardquardt. While their are less submissions from here there is a lot more control and much less of a chance of escape if used correctly. Chael drives his hips into Mardquardt making sure to keep his legs spread as much as possible. When Nate attempts to throw Chael off his back Chael shoots arm catching Nate's to slow the throw. Also his strong hip control and leg ride keep him nice and snug allowing for endless amounts of pounding of the sides of the opponent. This is a staple of any grinders arsenal and can be used quite well against a someone who has the upper hand in BJJ or grappling in general. This can be used to take control of the fight and wear them down. I know its been mentioned but Sonnen’s balance is really a something to be admired here. Most men would have lost position and be on the losing end of a ground and pound attack
Here later in the fight Nate is successful in up heaving Sonnen from the leg ride, but another amazing presentation of balance by Sonnen foils Nate’s escape plans. Chael posts heavy with his left arm driving Nate down to the ground. When Nate starts to settle Sonnen is able to post with his right arm as well floating on top of Nate’s guard until he lands in half guard.
This simple but another great use of the leg ride. Sonnen has the one hook in while Okami blocks him from coming in with the other. So Chael throws his hips to the left back, and flings his leg backwards widening Okami’s hips allowing Chael to throw in his other hook.
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Chael Sonnen: American Fuckin Gangster from the means streets of West Lynn, Oregon
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh_eO2QoeCM[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh_eO2QoeCM[/youtube]
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Sonnen seems like a massive cunt. They should put together a catchweight battle of the heels between him and Koscheck down the road.
Hope Silva destroys him but my gut says it's going to be an ugly, boring fight.
Hope Silva destroys him but my gut says it's going to be an ugly, boring fight.
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Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
It would be shocking if somebody with 11 losses pulled out the W on Silva.
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Sonnen has no chance. Throw all that shit out the window. Silva is one of the beat MMA fighters who ever graced the ring.
He toyed with Sonnen last time. He was lackluster and he still won.
This time silva seems pretty pissed off because of Sonnen's stupid ass WWE mouth. A focused and aggressive silva is a damn dangerous thing.
He toyed with Sonnen last time. He was lackluster and he still won.
This time silva seems pretty pissed off because of Sonnen's stupid ass WWE mouth. A focused and aggressive silva is a damn dangerous thing.
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Plus wasn't silva hurt in their last fight?
Yea. Picking Sonnen is like a vote for Ron Paul.
Yea. Picking Sonnen is like a vote for Ron Paul.
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
lolwut?Jay wrote: He toyed with Sonnen last time. He was lackluster and he still won.
"Gentle in what you do, Firm in how you do it"
- Buck Brannaman
- Buck Brannaman
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
I didn't stutter. He was lackluster as hell. It was annoying because silva didn't attack like silva.baffled wrote:
lolwut?
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Sonnen was winning the fight handily you fucking dunce.
"Gentle in what you do, Firm in how you do it"
- Buck Brannaman
- Buck Brannaman
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Baffled, dont feed the troll. Ron Paul? LMAO
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
The Ron Paul thing was a joke.
Yes he was winning the fight. I never said otherwise. Silva was lackluster and if he didn't slap on the triangle he would have lost on points.
None of that takes away from the fact he is a far better fighter than Sonnen.
Troll? Hardly. Wait until tomorrow and see. :)
Yes he was winning the fight. I never said otherwise. Silva was lackluster and if he didn't slap on the triangle he would have lost on points.
None of that takes away from the fact he is a far better fighter than Sonnen.
Troll? Hardly. Wait until tomorrow and see. :)
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
I'm pulling for Silva because I don't like Sonnen's schtick, but it doesn't take away from Jay being a Rollins nut licking retard.
"Gentle in what you do, Firm in how you do it"
- Buck Brannaman
- Buck Brannaman
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
This takes nothing away from Sonnen. He's a damn good fighter.
Silva is just better and had a horrible fight against him last time. Toyed was a bad word choice. More like he looked like shit but still won.
Silva is just better and had a horrible fight against him last time. Toyed was a bad word choice. More like he looked like shit but still won.
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Perhaps. But I'm bigger, stronger and much better looking so it's all good :)baffled wrote:I'm pulling for Silva because I don't like Sonnen's schtick, but it doesn't take away from Jay being a Rollins nut licking retard.
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Watch the fight again compared to Silva's recent and when he was on attack mode. Tell me he looked like he was Silva in the first fight. He wasn't even close to himself. In fact Dana White himself criticized Silva for looking lackluster in previous fights.baffled wrote:I'm pulling for Silva because I don't like Sonnen's schtick, but it doesn't take away from Jay being a Rollins nut licking retard.
Not to mention this:
"Silva allegedly went into the fight with injured ribs and his doctor advised him not to fight. During the first round, Sonnen cracked his rib and Silva was out until 2011 because of the injury.[53]"
So retard? Hardly. Go fuck yourself.
Re: WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN
Your original statement:
"He toyed with Sonnen"
Fuck off, go back to the Couch Thread so you can act like a dimwitted, butt hurt faggot. Again.
"He toyed with Sonnen"
Fuck off, go back to the Couch Thread so you can act like a dimwitted, butt hurt faggot. Again.
"Gentle in what you do, Firm in how you do it"
- Buck Brannaman
- Buck Brannaman