IGX

I know that we have prior military and others that have worked abroad. Curious about your opinions on the subject of civilian contract work, paramedic work in my case. I've been given a very tentative offer and while it's not something that I have really given much thought to up until now, the potential of paying off the remainder of my debt in one fell swoop with a size able sum left over is tempting.

For those that don't know me, I'm married with no kids. The wife is still on the fence.

The work would primarily be in a clinical setting, most likely in Afganistan or Kuwait.

Never been over seas or in the military so I have nothing to add in that respect. International travel for me has been vacations to Mexico. I'm just curious as to whether or not your wife would be going and how long you would be there. That would be part of my deciding factor.

JDub wrote:Never been over seas or in the military so I have nothing to add in that respect. International travel for me has been vacations to Mexico. I'm just curious as to whether or not your wife would be going and how long you would be there. That would be part of my deciding factor.

No, the wife would not be coming with. Average contract is a year. A friend currently works for the same company and has been treated well. Length of contract sucks, but the pay out would very easily help set us up for starting a family afterwards.

I have not done contract work overseas but I've worked in the middle east a bit and interacted with a lot of contractors. Most seemed to either enjoy their work or were able to tolerate it for the money. Those in Saudi tolerated it and those in the UAE liked it very much.

I wouldn't consider Afghanistan personally. I've not been to Kuwait but hear that it can be an OK place. Where you are located will matter a lot. Kuwait City would be one thing while Bumfuckia would be a completely different experience.

Muslim culture is surprisingly varied but almost always more conservative than ours, especially as it relates to women, but a lot of that is geographical. It'll take some getting used to. Also, you'll want to know if you're going to be working with westerners or a bunch of Indians (who infest the ME). I like Indians quite a bit but working with them is an acquired taste.

One thing that's cool about the middle east is that it's a great spot for flights to Europe or Asia. You'll probably have enough bank for a trip or three with your wife.

One of my best friends, a SF medic, has done contract work in the Middle East (He just left for Phillippino Relief) for 8-9 years. He loves it.
I did 11 months with a British company, I loved it. The wife on the other hand, not so much.

It's surprising sometimes who thrives and who hates it. People I expected to thrive as an expat come home in six months with their tail between their legs, and one or two people I've thought were retards who couldn't work a doorknob ended up having long happy overseas careers.

One friend's parents loved working in Saudi so much they sold their house to her to shed their tax commitment and never came back.

Do you have a 'choice' of the locations, i.e. they said "we have an opening both places..." because if so, I would choose Kuwait in a heartbeat. Much nicer, more western, and if you hadn't noticed, a little safer for civilians.

Which is important, because any time I have been on a long deployment/remote tour it is the liberty hours that make it or break it for the average joe. The job is always the job, but if you don't have something to do in the off hours, what starts out as a seed of an idea that you wasted a year will grow into some self-loathing over separating yourself from your significant other for that long, for $$$.

You will likely do better than others with that, because you can default to working out, which is what I have always done.

Be forewarned that things change in a year. It's not magnified so much if you don't have kids, but again, having 'come back' a few times myself, things are always different, and they're *more* different for the people who stayed at home while you chose to go overseas. You should not be surprised if the wife has new habits, a few different friends, and if/when you show up with the attitude "everything looks the same to me, as if I just left yesterday, so clear your calendar cause we're jumping in the sack..." don't be surprised if it doesn't necessarily go over.

Just sayin'...

Dunn--
Weren't you considering a PA program awhile back? That didn't happen evidently. Change of heart?
Also, does this organization utilize PAs? Just curious. A friend of mine (PA) does periodic work in Alaska for 3-6 weeks at a pop. Prety big payout.

Just to piggy-back on what DDL said, if you are in Afghanistan and you live/work on Bagram Field, it is a 'westernized' base and pretty cush. Everything else there is a shithole, full of people stuck in the 12th century.

Kuwait is riddled with $$$, and they have a McDonald's in their airport and shopping malls.

All that said, sometimes shitholes are awesome. Prior to the internet age I spent a fair amount of time in a destabilized African nation on FID mission training their scout/snipers. Nothing but occasional sat phone; not power, no internet, no clean water... but after 'camping' for 8 months in Africa I had done some outstanding reading, was in great shape, and had a fairly strong 'sense of self.' So like Gorilla said, the rub is that you never know until you try.

Go for it. Bare minimum, you'll have seen the world and made some real money. Once you've cracked the code and met the right folks, you could poach some sweet gigs in nice places.

Everyone should travel round a bit.

Polo Tomasi wrote:Dunn--
Weren't you considering a PA program awhile back? That didn't happen evidently. Change of heart?
Also, does this organization utilize PAs? Just curious. A friend of mine (PA) does periodic work in Alaska for 3-6 weeks at a pop. Prety big payout.

PA program and any schooling beyond an RN degree would cost too damn much. To be honest, I am so scared of acquiring any more student debt I am hesitant to do more than a BSN. Even that is beyond my financial means right now.

A friend of mine worked on a US base in Afghanistan 2 years ago, as a spinning instructor. Loads of money and good experiences. Go for it.

This:
"Be forewarned that things change in a year."

As true as anything you will hear on this. With Skype and internet now, I'm just guessing, I am thinking things would be actually worse as you would get a taste of things (from good times like birthdays and the like to the shit storms of broken plumbing and batteries going dead and all the rest) and maybe hear too much. Even as short as six to eight weeks can be weird, but an opportunity to clear your finances is hard to overcome. Being debt free or close is going to be worth it down the line. Just go in with your eyes open about how things are going to change...and they will no matter what you decide...but on the economic side it is going to be a boon.

I had two opportunities to do this.

First was in 1979,.. helping to set up the defensive tactics course with my late friend in Africa.
The deal fell apart.

Second was with the guy you see in my dvds, Mario Guevara. It was in Serbia/Croatia doing security.
It was to be 50k for six months. I thought that was too low, [being married with kids].

With Skype, text, email, Facebook... it would be tough but tolerable. The military guys on here will tell you more by far.

Bad idea.

If your motivation is financial I would opine that you will make more money in the next 20 years keeping your current job than you would giving it up, doing a tour as a contractor, then coming back and trying to find a new job.

These days I don't recommend that anyone who has a good steady full-time job go into overseas combat-zone type contracting.

The .gov is cutting contracts left and right. Those that remain have statements of work with lowered standards so clowns abound. The days of $1000 per day for a retired SOF guy are over. The days of $150 per day for a former small town Police Officer who is supervising a crew of $50 per day Africans who don't speak English very well are in full swing.

I suggest you visit SOCNET, follow all the rules, and ask your questions there.

-Stan

stanley_white wrote:Bad idea. . . .

The .gov is cutting contracts left and right. Those that remain have statements of work with lowered standards so clowns abound. The days of $1000 per day for a retired SOF guy are over. The days of $150 per day for a former small town Police Officer who is supervising a crew of $50 per day Africans who don't speak English very well are in full swing.. . . .

I was afraid of this.

Read this from SOCNET -- it is focused more on PSD but is still relevant -- http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=52042.

stanley_white wrote:Bad idea.

If your motivation is financial I would opine that you will make more money in the next 20 years keeping your current job than you would giving it up, doing a tour as a contractor, then coming back and trying to find a new job.

These days I don't recommend that anyone who has a good steady full-time job go into overseas combat-zone type contracting.

The .gov is cutting contracts left and right. Those that remain have statements of work with lowered standards so clowns abound. The days of $1000 per day for a retired SOF guy are over. The days of $150 per day for a former small town Police Officer who is supervising a crew of $50 per day Africans who don't speak English very well are in full swing.

I suggest you visit SOCNET, follow all the rules, and ask your questions there.

-Stan

Does this apply to tech/med folks too? Or just tactical and security?

stanley_white wrote:Bad idea.

If your motivation is financial I would opine that you will make more money in the next 20 years keeping your current job than you would giving it up, doing a tour as a contractor, then coming back and trying to find a new job.

These days I don't recommend that anyone who has a good steady full-time job go into overseas combat-zone type contracting.

The .gov is cutting contracts left and right. Those that remain have statements of work with lowered standards so clowns abound. The days of $1000 per day for a retired SOF guy are over. The days of $150 per day for a former small town Police Officer who is supervising a crew of $50 per day Africans who don't speak English very well are in full swing.

I suggest you visit SOCNET, follow all the rules, and ask your questions there.

-Stan

Duly noted. That being said, I can dam near always get a job as a medic. My fire dept has told us already I expect lay offs due to budget cuts and massive city debt over the next few years. Those of is that stay on will experience even more shitty cuts to our retirements. Leaving this isn't a huge deal to me.

nafod wrote: Does this apply to tech/med folks too? Or just tactical and security?

I cannot confirm on the tech / med side but it would not surprise me.

Dunn wrote: Duly noted. That being said, I can dam near always get a job as a medic. My fire dept has told us already I expect lay offs due to budget cuts and massive city debt over the next few years. Those of is that stay on will experience even more shitty cuts to our retirements. Leaving this isn't a huge deal to me.

Understood. Big boy rules apply.

As an older person who is now a father I wouldn't give up time away from loved ones, and the physical / mental risk incurred, in return for a big payday, unless there was no other option.

I encourage everyone who is interested in overseas contracting to check out: http://www.socnet.com

-Stan

Just my two cents-- medical is different.

If you're in the 'stan, employers may assume that you can handle ugly situations calmly, and it may not hurt your domestic prospects too much. If it is actually shutting down, it may be a shorter term deal than you planned for. Save what you make.

If you're in Kuwait, it will likely be more stable employment and a lot quieter. If you learn the language while you're there, that will boost your longer term overseas employment opportunities. There are a lot of opportunities over there, and you may be able to take the wife to the next one. Make good contacts.

The points about overseas work hurting your domestic employment prospects are good, you'll need to plan on being on the shelf for a few months at least-- budget for it. Using your time on the shelf to focus on your education doesn't hurt, especially if you're looking to transition to another field or boost some skills. If you're not too busy overseas, you may be able to knock out some education stuff while you're over there.

Make sure you're not signing on with a low budget subcontractor. If you switch jobs while overseas (the one you get may not pay well) to another contract, make sure it's somewhere that gives you a substantial raise.

One of the best things i ever did.

For a short time gig, if the money is right, a nice move. Quality of your peers is high, drama is low, and no interview afterward ever didn't center around working in the sandbox. i also really, really liked my job as a goodwill ambassador. lol.

Be prepared to work out a lot, fight off the @fit hoard, get tired of the food, and have your opinions on things change.

One of my buddies got out of the AF at 23 (fireman) and immediately went to Afghanistan from 2005-2007. Good money, didn't have to do much, sounds like the lack of pussy and booze was the hardest part.

Came back, put 50% down on a house and parlayed military and contracting experience into a job with a major city FD which then paid for him to train as a paramedic.

Just go in with your eyes open about how things are going to change

And you could get dead....

If I were without wife and kids I would do something like this. Being that's not the case I couldn't take being away from them.