Getting a degree in athletics

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Getting a degree in athletics

Post by nafod »

This is an interesting argument.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/14/opini ... ght-region
Still, the arguments are compelling for creating athletics majors on campus.

Universities routinely give degrees in the performing arts, such as music, dance and theater, as Professor Shughart pointed out. In these programs performances are often given to audiences paying for the privilege of seeing exceptional talent on display.

Beyond our cultural biases, what really is the difference between a Shakespeare play, an orchestra concert and a basketball game? Each performance requires some high-level combination of physical ability and mental acuity, developed through years of training and study, and for which only a select few reach elite levels.

Another proponent of an athletics major is John V. Lombardi, a former president of the University of Florida and the Louisiana State University System. In an article two years ago in Inside Higher Ed, he argued that degrees in athletics would involve far more than just playing games.

His case for athletics degrees is based on a “structured curriculum” off the field, in areas such as “sports history, sports law, sports finance.” Students would also have to meet general education requirements. Here at the University of Colorado, Boulder, for instance, we have begun an academic program in sports governance housed within the athletic department, serving the entire student body.
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Re: Getting a degree in athletics

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

nafod wrote:Beyond our cultural biases, what really is the difference between a Shakespeare play, an orchestra concert and a basketball game?
There are many talent-tiers of performance for music and acting that people will pay to see, and that graduates can participate in decades after graduation. That's not true of post-college athletics.
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Re: Getting a degree in athletics

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Beyond our cultural biases, what really is the difference between a Shakespeare play, an orchestra concert and a basketball game? Each performance requires some high-level combination of physical ability and mental acuity, developed through years of training and study, and for which only a select few reach elite levels.
Nothing.

It's all a craft. or it's an art. or it's a performance.
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Re: Getting a degree in athletics

Post by Blaidd Drwg »

Grandpa's Spells wrote:There are many talent-tiers of performance for music and acting that people will pay to see, and that graduates can participate in decades after graduation. That's not true of post-college athletics.
"pay to see"...what a mentally and spiritually crippled outlook.


There's massive amounts of post college recreational athletics that are incredibly well supported ranging from the equiv. of community theater all the way up to truly masterful work. The big four sports are not in that list but that shouldn't undermine the premise that lifelong athleticism is a *GOOD* thing....every bit as fulfilling to those who pursue it as playing an instrument or producing works of art...regardless of who's in the audience.
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Re: Getting a degree in athletics

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Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:There are many talent-tiers of performance for music and acting that people will pay to see, and that graduates can participate in decades after graduation. That's not true of post-college athletics.
"pay to see"...what a mentally and spiritually crippled outlook.
The subtext was there's infrastructure and the artist isn't paying to perform. Athletes usually pay to compete.

I'm not saying it's right. The question was: what's the difference? The answer is there's a pretty good number of differences. Another is that classes associated with art/music/acting enhance the student's skill, which isn't the case with athletes, unless the classes are practice/training, which isn't what this sounded like.
There's massive amounts of post college recreational athletics that are incredibly well supported ranging from the equiv. of community theater all the way up to truly masterful work. The big four sports are not in that list but that shouldn't undermine the premise that lifelong athleticism is a *GOOD* thing....every bit as fulfilling to those who pursue it as playing an instrument or producing works of art...regardless of who's in the audience.
You don't need "sports law" and "sports finance" for that. Maybe you have a different view of what the degree should be from what is described by the author.
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Re: Getting a degree in athletics

Post by Bud Charniga's grape ape »

Most people won't go on to a career in whatever their degrees were in, unless they're in a STEM field. I'm not a professional historian. So, meh, you want to major in athletics rather than cultural anthropology? Follow your bliss.


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Re: Getting a degree in athletics

Post by Blaidd Drwg »

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:There are many talent-tiers of performance for music and acting that people will pay to see, and that graduates can participate in decades after graduation. That's not true of post-college athletics.
"pay to see"...what a mentally and spiritually crippled outlook.
The subtext was there's infrastructure and the artist isn't paying to perform. Athletes usually pay to compete.

I'm not saying it's right. The question was: what's the difference? The answer is there's a pretty good number of differences. Another is that classes associated with art/music/acting enhance the student's skill, which isn't the case with athletes, unless the classes are practice/training, which isn't what this sounded like.
There's massive amounts of post college recreational athletics that are incredibly well supported ranging from the equiv. of community theater all the way up to truly masterful work. The big four sports are not in that list but that shouldn't undermine the premise that lifelong athleticism is a *GOOD* thing....every bit as fulfilling to those who pursue it as playing an instrument or producing works of art...regardless of who's in the audience.
You don't need "sports law" and "sports finance" for that. Maybe you have a different view of what the degree should be from what is described by the author.

For amateur art and amateur theater and amateur music there is FAR FAR less infrastructure supporting them than amat. athletics. Anyone who's endured the tedium of having a friend that's an artist will attest to this disconnect.


You're talking around the issue of what's an element of the degree, I'm talking about the notion that somehow there's a difference post college with pursuing art versus pursuing athletics. I tender there are no meaningful differences. The degrees could be structured in a far more meaningful way but that's not the issue I reacted to.
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Re: Getting a degree in athletics

Post by milosz »

There are a ton of jobs in athletics aside from actually playing - a degree in athletics could be the open door to coaching junior high school football or track and field or whatever. Scarcely different from the way that works now, only the curriculum would hopefully address proper training and coaching for youths and it would involve more players of a higher caliber.

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Re: Getting a degree in athletics

Post by Turdacious »

In practice, all it would do is further damage the idea that student athletes are students.
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Re: Getting a degree in athletics

Post by DrDonkeyLove »

It doesn't seem any less marketable than a degree in feminist studies or puppetry.
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Re: Getting a degree in athletics

Post by Pinky »

There are already phys ed degrees, as well as sports management degrees. Are people really concerned that the fluffy education and management classes are taking too much time away from fluffy classes about sports?
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Re: Getting a degree in athletics

Post by climber511 »

The percentage of jocks graduating must be dropping again - so we'll give them a degree in "I played a sport in college" - so please give me a job educating your children in same.

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Re: Getting a degree in athletics

Post by nafod »

Pinky wrote:There are already phys ed degrees, as well as sports management degrees. Are people really concerned that the fluffy education and management classes are taking too much time away from fluffy classes about sports?
I think the argument is about how a musician performs as part of their degree, so why not an athlete? Why not get credit for all of that training?

Here's the stuff from the webpage for prospective music majors. Imagine replacing "music" with "sports".
This degree helps to prepare students for careers in performance or composition. Studio instruction is offered in all orchestral instruments, piano, organ, and voice. Entrance to the Bachelor of Music in Performance program requires a strong background of musical accomplishment and may require a separate audition after initial acceptance to the school. Admission to the Bachelor of Music in Composition program is based on the student's portfolio of compositions, an interview, and an audition on his or her primary instrument or voice.
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Re: Getting a degree in athletics

Post by Pinky »

nafod wrote:
Pinky wrote:There are already phys ed degrees, as well as sports management degrees. Are people really concerned that the fluffy education and management classes are taking too much time away from fluffy classes about sports?
I think the argument is about how a musician performs as part of their degree, so why not an athlete? Why not get credit for all of that training?
So they just want to give class credit for practice time, and let athletes graduate without taking actual courses beyond the gen ed requirements? I actually find that less objectionable than creating another bullshit department where people teach nonsensical classes designed to cater to morons.
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Re: Getting a degree in athletics

Post by Turdacious »

Pinky wrote:
nafod wrote:
Pinky wrote:There are already phys ed degrees, as well as sports management degrees. Are people really concerned that the fluffy education and management classes are taking too much time away from fluffy classes about sports?
I think the argument is about how a musician performs as part of their degree, so why not an athlete? Why not get credit for all of that training?
So they just want to give class credit for practice time, and let athletes graduate without taking actual courses beyond the gen ed requirements? I actually find that less objectionable than creating another bullshit department where people teach nonsensical classes designed to cater to morons.
Athletes in profitable programs already get special classes, all this would do is increase tenured positions.
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