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Trump pardoning a rich guy from Wall Street/Hollywood elite for defrauding Trump supporters of money they thought that they were spending on a wall that Trump promised Mexico would pay for is pretty much a perfect last official act.

A golden shower for the faithful

Also, pardoning Kwame Killpatrick, who is almost universally considered somebody who ought to be in jail, is crazy.

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:44 pm Also, pardoning Kwame Killpatrick, who is almost universally considered somebody who ought to be in jail, is crazy.

Be interesting to see if Kwame seeks public office again. My guess is that he will and has a shot at winning.
The pardons he actually granted were far tamer than I expected.

Kwame cannot seek public office for 20 years. I read he was a buddy of Jared Kushner's, ergo the pardon.

Kilpatrick was, at the time of his election to the mayor of Detroit, supposed to be the great hope of Midwestern democrats. Yet, as soon as possible he got down into the shit with the pigs and rolled. Remarkable, really, that a man who was supposed to be the next Obama do that.

Kilpatrick's antics bilked the taxpayers of Detroit out of so much money it pushed the city into bankruptcy.

Shafpocalypse Now wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:12 pm Kilpatrick's antics bilked the taxpayers of Detroit out of so much money it pushed the city into bankruptcy.

Sooooo......The PERFECT person for Trump to pardon. Kindred soul and what not.

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:44 pm Also, pardoning Kwame Killpatrick, who is almost universally considered somebody who ought to be in jail, is crazy.

BLM or don't you mean it?

Could have been worse. Could have been Marc Rich. Helper of Apartheid and Russian oligarchs.... all he had to do was pay Bill Clinton off.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-clin ... story.html

Marc Rich helped the Afrikaaners bust UN Sanctions....

"In a rare interview in 2007, Rich said he did his "most important and most profitable" trades by breaking international embargoes and doing business with apartheid South Africa, an admission made to Swiss journalist Daniel Ammann, the author of The King of Oil: The Secret Lives of Marc Rich. "He had no regrets whatsoever," Ammann said.

"He used to say, 'I deliver a service. People wanted to sell oil to me and other people wanted to buy oil from me. I am a businessman, not a politician.' "He went where others didn't go or didn't dare to go," said Ammann. "He became rich because he was able to profit from boycotts.""

https://mg.co.za/article/2013-07-05-00- ... o-regrets/

" Rich was in a prime position to help Russia’s plunderers carry out their dirty work. Klebnikov reported that Rich dealt in oil, aluminum, zinc and other raw commodities.

“He’d strike a deal with the local party boss, or the director of a state-owned company,” explains the author. “He’d say, ‘OK, you will sell me the [commodity] at 5 to 10 percent of the world market price.

“‘And in return, I will deposit some of the profit I make by reselling it 10 times higher on the world market, and put the kickback in a Swiss bank account.'”

For at least two years, as the Soviet Union was in its death throes, Rich was that nation’s largest trader of aluminum and oil on a spot basis."

https://nypost.com/2001/02/15/how-marc- ... er-russia/

Gene wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:57 am Could have been worse.

Pardoning Manafort and Stone in return for their silence was a lot worse.

The pardon BS is as bipartisan a "fuck you" to the American people from the ruling elite as there is.

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:10 pm

Gene wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:57 am Could have been worse.

Pardoning Manafort and Stone in return for their silence was a lot worse.

Worse than pardoning someone who kept Apartheid going?

You don't believe that Marc Rich kept Apartheid going? You don't believe that that Apartheid was bad? You were cold warrior who didn't want a Soviet Africa? You consider Apartheid old news, don't care that it's still fucking up Azania today?

Marc Rich is dead. Passed away living in luxury in Lucerne during the Obama Administration. Might have been nice to see him held to justice under a black President, yes?

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:10 pm

Gene wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:57 am Could have been worse.

Pardoning Manafort and Stone in return for their silence was a lot worse.

Doesn’t look like the pardons were well thought out enough for that to happen.
https://www.justsecurity.org/74241/the- ... e-justice/

Gene wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:23 pm

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:10 pm

Gene wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:57 am Could have been worse.

Pardoning Manafort and Stone in return for their silence was a lot worse.

Worse than pardoning someone who kept Apartheid going?

Yes

Marc Rich is dead. Passed away living in luxury in Lucerne during the Obama Administration. Might have been nice to see him held to justice under a black President, yes?

Glad he is dead, would have enjoyed it more if he died in prison.

I hope the DOJ uses the open door that Turd pointed out to put Manafort back in jail. That would be sweet.

nafod wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:19 pm

Gene wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:23 pm

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:10 pm

Gene wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:57 am Could have been worse.

Pardoning Manafort and Stone in return for their silence was a lot worse.

Worse than pardoning someone who kept Apartheid going?

Yes

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Soweto-Uprising05-June-76_m.jpg (45.64 KiB) Viewed 4567 times

No thanks to Marc Rich they're over Apartheid.

Marc Rich is dead. Passed away living in luxury in Lucerne during the Obama Administration. Might have been nice to see him held to justice under a black President, yes?

Glad he is dead, would have enjoyed it more if he died in prison.

I hope the DOJ uses the open door that Turd pointed out to put Manafort back in jail. That would be sweet.

Your hate is going to burn you up, Nafod.... and no, it ain't keeping your warm. Kind of spoiling your aim.

Gene wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:54 pm

nafod wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:19 pm

Gene wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:23 pm

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:10 pm

Gene wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:57 am Could have been worse.

Pardoning Manafort and Stone in return for their silence was a lot worse.

Worse than pardoning someone who kept Apartheid going?

Yes

hector-pieterson.jpg

1976-20160616-JuhanKuus.jpg

Soweto-Uprising05-June-76_m.jpg

No thanks to Marc Rich they're over Apartheid.

Marc Rich is dead. Passed away living in luxury in Lucerne during the Obama Administration. Might have been nice to see him held to justice under a black President, yes?

Glad he is dead, would have enjoyed it more if he died in prison.

I hope the DOJ uses the open door that Turd pointed out to put Manafort back in jail. That would be sweet.

Your hate is going to burn you up, Nafod.... and no, it ain't keeping your warm. Kind of spoiling your aim.

I'm not up in arms about the pardon thing. Is a shirt thing, but it is constitutional.

But I would lololol if they used the loophole to stick Manafort back in jail. Hahaha... But first they need to do it.

nafod wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:01 pmI'm not up in arms about the pardon thing. Is a shirt thing, but it is constitutional.

But I would lololol if they used the loophole to stick Manafort back in jail. Hahaha... But first they need to do it.

According to Wiki Manafort was in jail almost two years until the pardon. I don't think anyone is going to waste the time, not unless Manafort starts to become a problem for someone. If he just does little stuff? He's nobody.

What I don't understand is what the Democrats hope to accomplish by impeaching Trump for sedition. All last summer bunches of Democrats talked about violence. Nobody held them to account for riots and deaths on the streets. People died in Seattle and Portland while their Democratic mayors sat on their hands. Mayor Durkin talked about a "summer of love" while one Rapper handed out AR15s to kids in violation of Washington State law.

Lots of people died in the riots, more than in the Capital building. Classmates of mine claimed that burning down stores was the same as dumping tea into Boston Harbor. They did not agree that dumping a Crown chartered company's property into a harbor was not quite the same as burning down random businesses owned by "capitalists".

"It's our revolution" they said. Hey, fine. What was so wrong with what Trump is supposed to have said? Cause it happened in the Holy of Holies?

The Democrats can't have it both ways - they can't excuse "revolution" while condemning Trump for similar impulses. Violence is violence.

Truth and accountability. Trumps actions to overturn a free and fair election is about the worst thing a President can possibly do.

nafod wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:48 am Truth and accountability. Trumps actions to overturn a free and fair election is about the worst thing a President can possibly do.

How would you compare what the orange one has done to the actual fraud perpetrated in 1960 (which affected the outcome) and the 1972 (which did not affect the outcome) presidential elections?

nafod wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:48 am Truth and accountability. Trumps actions to overturn a free and fair election is about the worst thing a President can possibly do.

Worse than the Trail of Tears under Andrew Jackson? Worse than the terror invasion of the south under Lincoln? Aka Sherman's March, a deliberate terror campaign against civilians. Using air assets to kill one in five North Koreans, both Truman and Eisenhower. Worse than the Vietnam War? Four million dead for what purpose again? Johnson and Nixon. The Contra War that was funded by diversion of US property and possibly cocaine sales? Involved Reagan, maybe George H Bush and Bill Clinton while the latter was Arkansas governor. Invasion of Iraq. How many WMDs did we find there? A few cast off chemical agent shells? How many have died since that time, from the "Salvador Solution" against Sunni and the rise of ISIS in Sunni areas?

All of these were the result of Presidential decisions. Lots of people died. Needlessly died.

I think you're indulging in hyperbole, Nafod.

Gene wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:21 pm

nafod wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:48 am Truth and accountability. Trumps actions to overturn a free and fair election is about the worst thing a President can possibly do.

Worse than the Trail of Tears? Worse than the terror invasion of the south under Lincoln? Using air assets to kill one in five North Koreans. Worse than the Vietnam War? Four million dead for what purpose again? Invasion of Iraq. How many WMDs did we find there? A few cast off chemical agent shells? How many have died since that time, from the "Salvador Solution" against Sunni and the rise of ISIS in Sunni areas?

All of these were the result of Presidential decisions. Lots of people died. Needlessly died.

I think you're indulging in hyperbole, Nafod.

Nope. His fundamental, core oath is to support and defend the Constitution, and his actions were a direct attack on that.

Pull the thread a little, just what was Trump hoping to achieve on the 6th? How far was he willing to go to overturn the election, which was free and fair?

nafod wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:35 pm

I think you're indulging in hyperbole, Nafod.

Nope. His fundamental, core oath is to support and defend the Constitution, and his actions were a direct attack on that.

The Constitution requires Congress to declare war before military force may be used, especially invasions. US intervention in Korea and Vietnam were commitments of US military without a strict Constitutional basis. Same with the Persian Gulf War, invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. No declaration of War was involved in any of these actions. Last I looked there was no Constitutional Amendment to change this requirement.

People who worry about the Constitution I hope asked for transfers away from Iraq, Afghanistan and other extra constitutional wars. If not transfers then resigned their commissions.

The Senate could pass a sense of the Senate, ask for local prosecutors to indict Trump based upon the articles of impeachment. Almost guarantees that the Federal Attorney will take it.

Trump gets his day in court. He no longer matters. He lost the election. Why spend a minute of the Congress's time on this man? To punish his supporters?

Acting like swamp creatures reinforces Trump's message. Acting in a legal manner disarms Trump.


We need Statespeople to confront the American people with their limits. We got this much money, what do you want to do? Congress needs to be honest with the public. Right now they're acting like used car salespeople - selling off our rights and property to the highest bidder.

nafod wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:35 pmPull the thread a little, just what was Trump hoping to achieve on the 6th? How far was he willing to go to overturn the election, which was free and fair?

Your opinion of "Free and Fair" is still debated. There is some evidence of Tech money being used for "get out the vote" efforts. While not illegal they were used to buck up Biden votes.

Getting more Biden votes in Democrat areas help Statewide and with the popular vote. Explains the lack of coattails. Would be a bigger turnout for the usual people is all.

Fair? I think so. Others might consider it unfair.

I would guess that Trump was doing his last bit for his supporters. Showing that he would fight to the bitter end. For himself, for his media empire? Don't know.

Trump could have declared Martial Law, cancelled the election. Some of his people wanted him to do that. A lot of us put down our feet and said "No Fucking way!". I'd rather see a President Biden or President Clinton than martial law. Most of my friends who are Vets were equally adamant.

I think Trump's speech was not that inflammatory. If he had called for such a thing why he is better or worse than VP Harris? She gave money for bail funds for rioters. $35,000,000 in total donations from progressives.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... rotestors/

Here is Act Blue's donation page for the Minnesota Freedom fund.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... rotestors/


Which is worse? 4Chan supporters scaring Senators or looting and rioting?


Best thing to do with Trump is dump the case into the local courts. Walk away. "Yesterday's news'. Mistake of a President. Quit playing political theater.

Be nice if Progressives would quit living like it's 1970. Today's plutocrats are Progressives too. These people are being used for short term profit.

Good post, Gene

I’ll say that Trump’s speech in isolation might not be much, but in the context of months of scene-setting, it was the final shove.

Take a look at this article. The graphic of cellphone tracks is fascinating on a bunch of different levels.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/opin ... Position=2

nafod wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:28 pm Good post, Gene

I’ll say that Trump’s speech in isolation might not be much, but in the context of months of scene-setting, it was the final shove.

Take a look at this article. The graphic of cellphone tracks is fascinating on a bunch of different levels.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/opin ... Position=2

If you think that the NYT doxxing people via cellphone data who haven't even been charged with a crime is a good luck, I don't know what to say. The bottom line is the Left was all about protesting and "making people uncomfortable" all summer, but when white folks do it, it's scary and racist.