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Be careful not to overdo it and stretch too far resulting in injury or even surgery. Pay attention and listen to your body, since every session might be different. Some days, one can stretch further than others. Stuart Mcgill, professor emeritus at Waterloo University in Ontario, and one of the foremost authorities on low back pain said that the number one reason for hip replacements in Europe is due to yoga. If you're in doubt, do less in time and range of motion.
https://www.backfitpro.com/

Someone posted this extremely informative article on yoga on Dan John's forum before it went down.
https://joeldiana.com/downloads/writing ... mation.pdf

I used to read Joel's articles. He knew a lot about yoga and had a very interesting and unique approach. Pick a hatha yoga teacher carefully. It could be very worthwhile to watch a class if that's possible and then decide whether or not to participate. Dan John wrote that the yoga teacher injured him by pushing him further into a posture.

I had a hip injury that lasted 18 months from late 1974 to mid 1976. The inside of my right knee and right foot also hurt. I strained an adductor muscle doing yoga and severely aggravated it carrying a pinball machine all bent over up a flight of stairs. I can't tell you how many professionals I got treatment from. I couldn't play tennis or run (my only exercises then.) I was 25 and felt like I had died. A doctor friend who I visited said let's go jogging. I was fine after 20 minutes. The same injury occurred 30 years ago. I hadn't jogged in years and thought it was a bad idea. I lay down on my treatment table and don't remember exactly what I did - probably a lot of visualization and very tiny movements, and in 45 minutes I was fine. I've learned a lot the hard way. At least I can laugh about it now. Hope this is helpful.

Lenny, have you ever done Joe Pilates' mat routine(s)?

They're really good and I think avoid a lot of the issues hatha yoga can have.

Benny, thanks for the advice. I've never done them and just found them online. I'll check them out. I haven't done hatha yoga seriously in 35 years when I was in an Iyengar yoga class. I started this thread after Bram wrote about going to a Bikram yoga class and thought it could be helpful.

Lenny, thanks for sharing the info! Do you have a link to Stuart McGill attributing European hip replacements to yoga? I’ll check out the Joel article,

Earlier this year a client got piriformis syndrome from aggressively doing pigeon pose in her yoga classes. That was about a two month recovery.

In his book Yoga Body, Mark Singleton argues that modern yoga is largely derived from late-19th and early-20th century European bodybuilding.

There can be a real danger in telling oneself, “It’s a yoga pose, it’s good for me!” Ideally, we would listen to our bodies AND have an understanding of basic body mechanics to avoid unnecessarily risky positions. That’s asking a lot. Then you end up following your sexy 25-year old, former gymnast, yoga teacher’s made-up pose and problems occur. Or trying to compete with someone. Or whatever.

Benny, do you have specific links WRT the Pilates mat work? I usually work from Daniel York's Pilates for Men when I do it.

Bram
I couldn't find the link while doing a quick search. I heard it in an interview with McGill. Indian Hatha yoga is quite ancient dating back at least 2,000 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatha_yoga

When I started doing hatha yoga in 1970, it was viewed as part of a series of spiritual practices involving breathing exercises (pranayama,) various meditation practices and purifications. My understanding of the word yoga means 'union.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga. The ultimate goal was to transcend the sense of a limited ego and unite with the Divine and reach enlightenment where there's only God Who is perceived in all beings. There were a number of spiritual teachers from the East who came to America in the late 1960's and 70s. Some were unfortunately frauds, and a lot of people, especially women, got very hurt. Some women were raped physically and emotionally. Two Eastern teachers who were never accused of any sexual misdeeds or fraud of any kind are Baba Hari Dass from India who I never met but have a lot of reasons to believe he had an excellent background in yogic practices and could be considered a saint at the very least.
https://www.babaharidass.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baba_Hari_Dass
https://www.mountmadonna.org/baba-hari-dass

The other one that I also never met was Thich Nhat Hanh, a Vietnamese Buddhist whose meditations I have practiced in the past.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADc ... E1%BA%A1nh

I'm not saying there aren't other teachers who are above reproach who received excellent training and can help a lot of people. I assume that the Dalai Lama is. I'm amazed that hatha yoga has turned into a series of physical practices in order to gain flexibility, relax, look and feel better (which is a good thing,) but it has been completely divorced from its spiritual intent. Having grown up in a very competitive American environment with sports and academics I can understand the mentality that more is better. A lot of times it just isn't especially with hatha yoga. I posted this link before about the dangers of hatha yoga.
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/maga ... -body.html

Be careful with any kind of new training program - physical, spiritual, emotional. Listen to yourself. Watch the teacher for a while if possible. I was in Encinitas in 1977 and saw part of a Tai Chi class. The Oriental teacher was very insulting to his students. I wouldn't have studied with him. Mine was a wonderful human being. What works for other people, however that's defined, may not be good for you, and what worked in the past for you may become very damaging. We all want more. It says in the Talmud that no one dies with even half their desires fulfilled. In the internet age, it's probably about a tenth of that now. It's impossible not to make mistakes, sometimes dreadful ones. I learned a lot from failures. Like Dan John says, "I know have another injury, but do I have another recovery?" That's not just about physical injuries.

I practised hatha yoga about 15 years ago. My teacher was Indian and would regularly go back to India to train under his guru. I always felt I was getting just the right amount of everything. He'd speak to the spirituality aspect in terms like "some people believe the pranayama we practise does..." but let us arrive at our own conclusions. I sensed he leant more into the physical aspect.

The feeling after those classes was incredible. Like your body was in zero gravity. It was before I started lifting but I often lament that I stopped before I probably really needed it. A really solid dude, I miss him and that class.

Lenny,

I wasn’t familiar with Baba Hari Dass, what a résumé!

Yoga, martial arts, weight training, sports…they all have their risks.

I’ve hurt myself with good intentions (the wrong form, but thought it was right), bad intentions (doing things to impress others), and just plain lack of luck or skill. I’ve been pushed too hard by teachers and pushed my own students too hard as well.

Although yoga can be a spiritual practice, so can anything else. I’m trying to worry less about what others are getting out of something unless they’re harming themselves or others.

Thanks for your time in looking up all those links and sharing your thoughts!

Shafpocalypse Now wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 2:24 am Benny, do you have specific links WRT the Pilates mat work? I usually work from Daniel York's Pilates for Men when I do it.

late in the pandemic I was doing some of the ‘Move with Nicole’ 20-30 minute intermediate mat workouts and got a lot out of them, although my PF issues were a limitation.