Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

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The Ginger Beard Man
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:00 am

Turdacious wrote:
The Ginger Beard Man wrote:I've never been married (and hopefully my fiancé won't realize how much better she can do before April), and I wouldn't judge a marriage between any two normal people.
You seriously threw this in during a post about NYC politicians (who, by definition, barely qualify as people)? Congrats!
I try to be generous.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:04 pm

FWIW, to answer my own earlier challenge, Waking Up with Sam Harris, #49, The Lesser Evil.
After listening to Harris and Andrew Sullivan take Hillary apart for 90 minutes, before they even got to the part about why Trump is even worse, I knew that if I lived in a close state I would vote for her and live with the self hatred for four years.
As things stand, my state won't be contested, so I will stick with my plan and vote for Johnson. I'd like to see him get 5%, and the LP get matching funds next time around.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by Testiclaw » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:06 pm

That Harris podcast was good.

He spells it out pretty heavily. I honestly think about 80% of the people voting for Hillary aren't actually pro-Hillary at all.

She won't win: Trump will lose.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:12 pm

Testiclaw wrote:That Harris podcast was good.

He spells it out pretty heavily. I honestly think about 80% of the people voting for Hillary aren't actually pro-Hillary at all.

She won't win: Trump will lose.
This.
I'm not usually a dupe for conspiracy theories, but sweet jeebus it does seem reasonable that this was her long game.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by milosz » Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:10 pm

When pressed on WHY she's bad, I find most critics highly lacking.

Susan Sarandon endorsed Jill Stein (lol) and I get it from that perspective - if you object to cozy relationships with big energy/pipelines/fracking, if you're concerned about the Drug War, etc.... because Hillary is an establishment moderate Democrat. Governance will be indistinguishable than Obama or Bill - (both of whom left or will be leaving office higher approval ratings than either Bush - even Reagan barely recovered to that at the veeeeeeery end by shucking and jiving some Iran-Contra stink). Others don't like her hawkishness and interventionism - but there's very little difference between her and the political class of either party on that front.

Very few people rending their garments object to her on those grounds - when pressed, there's vague hand-waving about flip-flopping, corruption and e-mails and BENGHAZI without getting specific. I had an acquaintance pine for the missed opportunity of a fucking Joe Biden Presidency - I like Crazy Uncle Joe as VP, but Joe Biden is even deeper in the Beltway shell game than Hillary.

The six percent of Americans who'll vote for Stein or Johnson and maybe half the people who voted for Sanders can honestly say that they object to Hillary on the grounds usually flung at her, along with the 25-30% of batshit pro-lifers and right-authoritarians and so on, rather than a media narrative about her that's persisted since 1992.

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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by dead man walking » Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:53 pm

there's a decent piece in the times today about her legal practice back in arkansas. she's obviously a highly intelligent, studious person. sales and marketing is not her calling.

but there's something a notch off in her judgment. perhaps it's a form of stockhold syndrome from being married to bill. no way your life can be reasonable--no matter how disciplined your mind--if you're moving through life with that dipsy-doodling philanderer.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:40 am

milosz wrote:When pressed on WHY she's bad, I find most critics highly lacking....
Hillary is an establishment moderate Democrat....
You're delusional.
As has been said here before, she's Dick Cheney with a vagina. Also, she has no core principles, only a will to power.
Edit: She also has proven that she doesn't learn from her mistakes.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by dead man walking » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:02 am

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:she's Dick Cheney with a vagina.
clever, but like all such reductions, false.

for example, she doesn't need a machine to make her heart beat, that is literally true, and probably metaphorically accurate.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by DrDonkeyLove » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:03 am

milosz wrote:
DrDonkeyLove wrote:
Should Hillary win, won't it be time for the country to "move on" again?
When was Caspar Weinberger President-elect?
When did Hillary get indicted for the e-mails?

I'll repeat it - I'm genuinely curious the extent to which someone like you is batshit insane and either ignorant or stupid, or trolling because that's what is done.

I call it the Ann Coulter Paradox - a series of statements or beliefs so bizarre no reasonable person could believe them... but scant evidence that the actor is a reasonable person to start with.
Professor J. Steven Clark at the University at Albany respected law school (Megyn Kelly & Andrew Cuomo are alumni) thinks an Obama pre-pardon might be worth considering - or not. Either way, not the out of hand dismissiveness you're arguing for.

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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by davidc » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:19 am

For whatever it's worth.
I've met HRC twice. Know several people who've known her for many years, and a few who've worked for her for (varying amounts of) years.
The folks who truly know her love her. As in they'd walk through fire for her.
She's wicked smart. She asks how your mom is doing when she's in the hospital. In everyday situations when the cameras are gone, she's warm, engaging, and personable. I witnessed this myself seeing her interact with my daughter.
And she's made of freaking steel.
When a judge complelled her to represent a child rapist, she bucked it and tried to get thrown off the case. When the judge refused, she represented the defendant to the best of her ability. She did a damn good job of it, got her client a great deal because of it.
And the DA on the other side (to this day) praises her for how she bucked the judge because she didn't want the case, and because she did her job very well when the judge forced her.
She's the minivan of candidates. People swear they'll never want her, but once they have a family and a few kids they realize she's what they need and she works better than anything else whether they admit it or not. She's not cool like the trendy things. But she's what you need most to get you and your family where you need to go.
Just how I see it.

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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by Testiclaw » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:24 am

She has metal skin and can play the political game like a fucking champ.

Still don't like her. Still don't think she's genuine.

But, fuck me. She knows how to phrase and word and act in a way that lets her skirt any given voting block at any given time.

She's a fucking chameleon.

But, still fucking hate her. I'll pull the lever and hate myself for it.

...

I'd still let her blow me just for the story.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by Herv100 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:28 am

davidc wrote:For whatever it's worth.
I've met HRC twice. Know several people who've known her for many years, and a few who've worked for her for (varying amounts of) years.
The folks who truly know her love her. As in they'd walk through fire for her.
She's wicked smart. She asks how your mom is doing when she's in the hospital. In everyday situations when the cameras are gone, she's warm, engaging, and personable. I witnessed this myself seeing her interact with my daughter.
And she's made of freaking steel.
When a judge complelled her to represent a child rapist, she bucked it and tried to get thrown off the case. When the judge refused, she represented the defendant to the best of her ability. She did a damn good job of it, got her client a great deal because of it.
And the DA on the other side (to this day) praises her for how she bucked the judge because she didn't want the case, and because she did her job very well when the judge forced her.
She's the minivan of candidates. People swear they'll never want her, but once they have a family and a few kids they realize she's what they need and she works better than anything else whether they admit it or not. She's not cool like the trendy things. But she's what you need most to get you and your family where you need to go.
Just how I see it.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:04 am

dead man walking wrote:
The Ginger Beard Man wrote:she's Dick Cheney with a vagina.
clever, but like all such reductions, false.

for example, she doesn't need a machine to make her heart beat, that is literally true, and probably metaphorically accurate.
Also, he supported gay marriage before she did.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:17 am

In 2000, I worked on a freelance basis for several caterers in NYC. With one of those companies, I worked at a fundraiser for Rick Lazio out on Long Island. I missed out on working a Clinton event at Columbia University with the same outfit.
My boss told me, months later, that he'd had to task his secretary with threatening not so subtly to go to the press if the Clinton campaign didn't pay their bill.
Little things like that stick out for me.
It may seem petty to bring this up, I also remember her declaration around that time that she was a lifelong Yankee fan. Because it illustrates well that there is no lie too small for her to tell.
So there's the big stuff like all the warmongering and the inability to learn from mistakes. The complete lack of accomplishment in the senate, the bungling of so many things as First Lady (like health care and travelgate), the quid pro quo corruption and intermingling of the State Dept and Clinton Foundation.

Fuck it. There's such a disconnect between her detractors and supporters. It's remarkable. We don't speak the same language. Either you care or you don't.

Trump is a sharp slap in the face. He's a wake up call. We have to ask ourselves how the fuck it happened.
Hillary is like hitting the snooze button in the morning. It's like being the frog not noticing that the water is getting hotter.
Four more years.

Or maybe I just hate women.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by Herv100 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:46 am

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:In 2000, I worked on a freelance basis for several caterers in NYC. With one of those companies, I worked at a fundraiser for Rick Lazio out on Long Island. I missed out on working a Clinton event at Columbia University with the same outfit.
My boss told me, months later, that he'd had to task his secretary with threatening not so subtly to go to the press if the Clinton campaign didn't pay their bill.
Little things like that stick out for me.
It may seem petty to bring this up, I also remember her declaration around that time that she was a lifelong Yankee fan. Because it illustrates well that there is no lie too small for her to tell.
So there's the big stuff like all the warmongering and the inability to learn from mistakes. The complete lack of accomplishment in the senate, the bungling of so many things as First Lady (like health care and travelgate), the quid pro quo corruption and intermingling of the State Dept and Clinton Foundation.

Fuck it. There's such a disconnect between her detractors and supporters. It's remarkable. We don't speak the same language. Either you care or you don't.

Trump is a sharp slap in the face. He's a wake up call. We have to ask ourselves how the fuck it happened.
Hillary is like hitting the snooze button in the morning. It's like being the frog not noticing that the water is getting hotter.
Four more years.

Or maybe I just hate women.
That partially because most Hillary supporters refuse to even read the stories and emails detailing her crooked piece of shitness. People like David, who vote based on the D after someone's name, don't want to know what a piece of human filth she is.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by DrDonkeyLove » Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:36 am

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:Trump is a sharp slap in the face. He's a wake up call. We have to ask ourselves how the fuck it happened.
Hillary is like hitting the snooze button in the morning. It's like being the frog not noticing that the water is getting hotter.
Four more years.
Between Trump & Bernie, I think this summarizes the story of this election, which is a powerful negative reaction to the status quo. Together they galvanized 1/2 the nation while neither are qualified for or worthy of the presidency.

The elites of both parties, and the people who finance them, will rejoice in a Hillary presidency once they've defeated the barbarians at the gates and go back to business as usual. Not sure if the people will allow that, though I suspect most of us will go meekly back into our sheeple pen.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by dead man walking » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:32 pm

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:In 2000, I worked on a freelance basis for several caterers in NYC. With one of those companies, I worked at a fundraiser for Rick Lazio out on Long Island. I missed out on working a Clinton event at Columbia University with the same outfit.
My boss told me, months later, that he'd had to task his secretary with threatening not so subtly to go to the press if the Clinton campaign didn't pay their bill.
Little things like that stick out for me.
you're right that details like these are revealing.

perhaps you'd like to report on donald's record regarding paying his bills. and just yesterday (i think) he was cited for breaking the law for failing to negotiate with the housekeepers union at one of his hotels in las vegas. making money by fucking over the maids.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:12 pm

dead man walking wrote:
The Ginger Beard Man wrote:In 2000, I worked on a freelance basis for several caterers in NYC. With one of those companies, I worked at a fundraiser for Rick Lazio out on Long Island. I missed out on working a Clinton event at Columbia University with the same outfit.
My boss told me, months later, that he'd had to task his secretary with threatening not so subtly to go to the press if the Clinton campaign didn't pay their bill.
Little things like that stick out for me.
you're right that details like these are revealing.

perhaps you'd like to report on donald's record regarding paying his bills. and just yesterday (i think) he was cited for breaking the law for failing to negotiate with the housekeepers union at one of his hotels in las vegas. making money by fucking over the maids.
Did you miss the part above where I said that as much as I dislike her, if I lived in a close state ID vote for her?
I've regarded Trump as a joke from before he was even running.
You Clinton supporters must wake up every morning and thank the gods for Trump.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by milosz » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:30 pm

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:
milosz wrote:When pressed on WHY she's bad, I find most critics highly lacking....
Hillary is an establishment moderate Democrat....
You're delusional.
As has been said here before, she's Dick Cheney with a vagina. Also, she has no core principles, only a will to power.
Edit: She also has proven that she doesn't learn from her mistakes.
Okay, let's hear the specifics. What are her egregious corruptions and evils that aren't endemic to the American political class?

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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by dead man walking » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:59 pm

DrDonkeyLove wrote: I :heart: Ann Coulter's emaciated self very much.
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by bennyonesix » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:01 pm

I refuse to read this thread. But Trump will win. The majority approach was rejected by GOP because it woukd work. White disaffected voters are still largest minority. Trump will beat Romney and get many more ind and Dem crossovers. Brothers aren't motivated and Hillary will underperform BO in every demo but blue haired cat ladies. Turnout will be huge and disaffected voters will go almost entirely to Trump.

OH, FL, PA, VA, NH, NC and at least one of MI, WI,MIN.

That is right now. Wait until the preference cascade kicks in.

Suck it shitlibs.

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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by nafod » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:23 pm

bennyonesix wrote:I refuse to read this thread. But Trump will win. The majority approach was rejected by GOP because it woukd work. White disaffected voters are still largest minority. Trump will beat Romney and get many more ind and Dem crossovers. Brothers aren't motivated and Hillary will underperform BO in every demo but blue haired cat ladies. Turnout will be huge and disaffected voters will go almost entirely to Trump.

OH, FL, PA, VA, NH, NC and at least one of MI, WI,MIN.

That is right now. Wait until the preference cascade kicks in.

Suck it shitlibs.
We will ALL be sucking it if he wins.
Don’t believe everything you think.

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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by bennyonesix » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:31 pm

nafod wrote:
bennyonesix wrote:I refuse to read this thread. But Trump will win. The majority approach was rejected by GOP because it woukd work. White disaffected voters are still largest minority. Trump will beat Romney and get many more ind and Dem crossovers. Brothers aren't motivated and Hillary will underperform BO in every demo but blue haired cat ladies. Turnout will be huge and disaffected voters will go almost entirely to Trump.

OH, FL, PA, VA, NH, NC and at least one of MI, WI,MIN.

That is right now. Wait until the preference cascade kicks in.

Suck it shitlibs.
We will ALL be sucking it if he wins.
Waaaaah waaaah waaaaah. Suck it up nancy. Trump loses and what do you think you'll get? 1992 > tea party > trump > ???

He is a civic nationalist who offers a well run multi ethnic empire. The best we can expect. He gives us another 20 yrs of peace. I'll take it.

Absent him, the strip mining of the US and EU middle class by the Intl Class continues apace. As does the white ethnic cleansing and concommitant rise in white ethnic consciouness. The Uniparty arrives in 4 years. And the shiibs are insane and can't hold it. The Gay Empire is not a sane concept. We get Lebannon in the 80's and 90's in ten years.

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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by nafod » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:40 pm

bennyonesix wrote:...who offers a well run...
The 65-story Trump Tower in Toronto goes belly-up and into receivership

The tallest residential building in Canada's largest city, named for the Republican presidential nominee in "the States," has gone into receivership.
Launched with great fanfare by Donald Trump and his offspring four years ago, only 44 of 118 condo units have been sold. The hotel occupancy rate is low, and room rates for the hotel have fallen by 30 percent, according to court documents.

heh
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Re: Presidential Election 2016 (was "Debates")

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:47 pm

milosz wrote:
The Ginger Beard Man wrote:
milosz wrote:When pressed on WHY she's bad, I find most critics highly lacking....
Hillary is an establishment moderate Democrat....
You're delusional.
As has been said here before, she's Dick Cheney with a vagina. Also, she has no core principles, only a will to power.
Edit: She also has proven that she doesn't learn from her mistakes.
Okay, let's hear the specifics. What are her egregious corruptions and evils that aren't endemic to the American political class?
I've listed specifics ad nauseum. As have others. And if your only defense of her is "they all do it", then where do you draw the line?

-Just one for the moment. Her collusion with the media, as evidenced in Wikileaks email dump, has been going on since at least the 1992 according to Andrew Sullivan in the above mentioned podcast.
Now you tell me what other politician has been caught having reporters send stories to them before publication.
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