IGX

Delta Force strikes ISIS leader in Syria as surface-to-air fire forces helicopter landing

"The ground force commander initiated what is known as a "tactical call out." With the target structure surrounded, al-Qurayshi and his followers were instructed over a bullhorn to lay down their weapons and surrender themselves. Instead, al-Qurayshi detonated a suicide vest which partially collapsed the building and killed a number of civilians inside"

Apparently these call-outs are meant to be safer for the operator than doing a SWAT style raid according to the Green Beret author. I can kinda see it, but also can't. Can someone explain how it's safer?

In a situation where all the bad guys are inside an installation, I can understand that approach. But in classic siege warfare, you always have two concerns: break outs and reinforcements. If you have more hajis on the way, I have a hard time seeing how this type of patience would pay off. Honestly, if you have the guy surrounded, send him to Jesus with a JDAM and go home.

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 1:24 am In a situation where all the bad guys are inside an installation, I can understand that approach. But in classic siege warfare, you always have two concerns: break outs and reinforcements. If you have more hajis on the way, I have a hard time seeing how this type of patience would pay off. Honestly, if you have the guy surrounded, send him to Jesus with a JDAM and go home.

You’d like him alive, and if not that, you’d at least like all of his electronic devices not trashed. The intel is more important than the kill, once you’ve locked in.

Although I saw the story, and it looks like they really wanted the families with lots of kids out of the building before smiting him.

nafod wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:03 am You’d like him alive, and if not that, you’d at least like all of his electronic devices not trashed. The intel is more important than the kill, once you’ve locked in.

I can appreciate that, but when it's clear that they're not coming out without a fight, the propaganda value of a successful kill may outweigh the intel value in the facility if it comes at the cost of American lives. I don't really know enough to judge, just trying to think things through.

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:46 pm

nafod wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:03 am You’d like him alive, and if not that, you’d at least like all of his electronic devices not trashed. The intel is more important than the kill, once you’ve locked in.

I can appreciate that, but when it's clear that they're not coming out without a fight, the propaganda value of a successful kill may outweigh the intel value in the facility if it comes at the cost of American lives. I don't really know enough to judge, just trying to think things through.

Fair enough, and it looks like the call out was more avoiding innocent deaths than intel exploit, at increased risk to our guys. So you guys were more right than wrong.

When I was in the bidness of supporting these guys (good lord, it’s been 11 years since I last deployed) they would hit a target, exploit what they had, and use that to roll onto the next one and the next one until they ran out of targets or the sun came up. It was a sight to behold.

nafod wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:48 pm When I was in the bidness of supporting these guys (good lord, it’s been 11 years since I last deployed) they would hit a target, exploit what they had, and use that to roll onto the next one and the next one until they ran out of targets or the sun came up. It was a sight to behold.

I would assume as much if you control the battlespace. Not that different from LEOs breaking down a criminal organization, shake the lower branches to climb to the top. These guys are all so good at what they do it's amazing, but there's always going to be limited success when your prey is willing to blow themselves and their children up to escape justice. But...I'm fine with that.

nafod wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:03 am You’d like him alive, and if not that, you’d at least like all of his electronic devices not trashed. The intel is more important than the kill, once you’ve locked in.

Intelligence saves a lot of lives down the road. I don't know the particular circumstances, I wasn't there and don't know who was doing what at the time.

I don't understand how Muslims can suicide. There are Koranic verses that command people to submit to God's will, including enduring misfortunes. Trust in God and His judgment. Al-Qurayshi should have made a rush at them, taken a few with him. Instead he suicided and murdered children.

First time I've agreed with Nafod in...centuries.

Ah I think I see now. I wonder what the strike rate of "OK, be right out" is vs. guns/bomb vests blazing