IronGarm

That's the point. Why would these guys bother to get bitchy about what another does with a barbell? Same should apply to the spaceball.

Rif started it with his force plate crap.

I honestly didn't care until that fateful day.

:)

If it was champion to champion, I would agree.

But champion to fraud is another matter.

LOL!

I'm just happy that I came up with a new name for balls with handles that make men insane: Spaceballs.

My work here is done for today. I'm off to train in a few.

Happy SHUGTASTICS! to all.

Dude, had you confusssed with Ericc, sorry.

Spaceballs? Do you need any NASA support? For a small amount of funding, I could leverage our agency to study the correlation of GS Swings and Astronaut arrests.

Let's all take a break and look at the photos of Kim Kardashian on the CoCo thread.

LOL! at one of our top Spaceball Camp shit-stirrers asking for peace, love and hairgrease!

I disagree with that. As I've said before numerous times, have a new guy who has never touched a Kettlebell for 2 months did 25 Jerks LC and 30 Jerks short cycle with 24 kgs. How did I get him to this point? I used lighter KBs for starters.



With all due repsect and this goes out to anyone reading this. I didn't even know how to train KEttlebell Sport(until I had a consistant training program from Valery). I had myths about "GS"(traditional Kettlebell lifting) that were debunked;)

I'm politely pointing out( by using myself as an example) that you don't know what training for this really is. Besides 16 kg is a different sport then 24 kgs which is a different sport then 32 kgs.



Thats good. I think windmills and Lunges are more stretching then conditioning. But why not.



Again this mention of styles. Honestly, did anyone use a force plate when doing "hardstyle" jerks? Being relaxed all the time is without a doubt one of the biggest misconceptions there is. I saw "soft style" with Kettlebells (Americans) until I saw what I saw in Moscow when Anton Anasenko easily explosively foot stomping the floor did 30 Jerks in a minute with 2 32kgs. No loss of power in his movement. The kettlebell moves from point A to point B. And if I saw your technique be it whatever style you choose to call it, I'm sure I can clean it up and explain exactly why and also why its healthier and safer.

don't be defensive. I'm still not spot on with my snatch technique(95%). You learn a lot lot through instruction and continue to learn through repetition.

Another misconception is that I attack RKC trainers directly. I'm confused why they feel the need to not learn this stuff. Doesn't make sense.

Cate...what's the deal with AKC using 10 minute sets as a guideline for "fitness" kettlebelling if competition isn't the goal? Why not 9 minute sets or 12 minute sets?

Before the 80's Snatch and Jerk sets weren't even timed were they? When it was legal to lower the snatch to the shoulder between reps, guys went for hours sometimes. Competitors repped out until they dropped.

The 10 minute set is an arbitrary competition time limit (in place only to shorten competitions) with no intended functional application to health or fitness goals. Why not just set rep goals instead of being a slave to the clock?

Randy,

I was responding to Dylan in a whole list of other posts.

I never said nor insinuated that the AKC was stuck on a 10 min figure in terms of fitness. I believed Dylan was talking about the sport as most people do when they refer to Valery or the AKC> So, please try to keep things in their proper context.

Why get stuck on reps and not time? Well, I guess that's up the individual..Both have there place, but knocking out 10 or x reps as fast as you can is one thing. I find in my fitness the value in the timed sets is keeping the bells in my hand as long as possible..even varying pace..that is, I can sprint for 30 reps and rest for 10 seconds overhead or in the rack for the jerk. That is the hard part. I did 10 min Jerk set the other night with a 24kg, and almost 80 total reps (one switch)...This was much harder on me than if I had attempted to knock out the same reps without adherence to time.

Same thing on snatches. 12 or 14 min snatch sets @ 16kg are a different challenge than 10 min sets..even faster. I do sets of single arm LCC&J with a 16kg bell where I switch hands every 5 min for 30 min without setting down the bell and I go about 8rpm.

Valery had me do an evenly paced 14 min set @ 12kg in Cincinnatii @ 16rpm...He did the same thing with a 24kg. Then at another Cert, he did 300 reps (one switch) in 20 min. So, clearly we aren't hung up on the 10 min time frame. I've since been working 12 min sets or even 14 with a 16kg...Makes the faster 10 min sets easier and the great result is that at 10 min..I know I can go very fast and not worry about grip failure now

For people doing general fitness, they may work for time and switch hands every minute or every 15 reps. That is not dictated by the AKC. What is suggested is that you do learn to pace yourself...so you do get the benefit of keeping a weight in your hands for a set amount of time. Pacing is also necessary to develop good technique. Speed can hide technical flaws that may not be evident if you are doing sets of 10 but would be much more evident if you went for more reps.

People overlook the intrinsic value of keeping the weight in their hands for time; Learning how to get comfortable being uncomfortable. It's always easy to rep out knowing you get to set the bell down in a few seconds.

If you approach your training for this or anything as purely numbers thing that is fine. The difference is that I know I can keep going for 10 min or 14 min or longer depending on what I'm doing.. It isn't just a numbers game or a sports game for me.

CI

You are just being argumentative now. Results, comrade cantankerous windbag. Results.

Maybe you should go back to your gym, use your obviously superior and much more authentic sources of real kettlebell information and dominate on the platform.

All these people you continually pooh-pooh can smoke you on the platform. If you were half as smart as you pretend you might learn a thing or two from them.

Or maybe not. You don't seem to be interested in anything other than causing trouble.

Here's the answer: attract elite potential talent and develop it. The kid in the video who jerked the 200lb kettlebell is an elite level athlete. He's a genetic freak and unlike 99.9% of other Greek kids will never achieve close to those levels of strength even if they do get to train with Valery's Magic Coach. Nearly everyone can improve themselves with weight training, but the elite are just that: elite. Not everyone has what that kid has.

At this years World Weightlifting Championships the best snatch in the 69kg class in the Men's competition was 158kg, the best jerk was 192kg.

If no elite potential athletes take up Kettlebell Lifting in the US, no one is going to total international level MS numbers, Valery or no Valery.

Bullcrap.

B.A.D. since you said something about T.S.C. I will take your question to mean any sport. I will name someone who used kettlebells incorrectly to help them become a champion Jesse Marunde. He gave alot of credit to kettlebells.

I don't consider myself elite in terms of any genetic gifts. No elite Olympic background, some long term powerlifting type stuff in the gym (210lb for 3 reps at my weight is hardly elite), but no real competitive sports (save one season of Rugby 2 years ago), since the age of 16.

Kelly Moore (who is not a genetically gifted athlete) will likely come close to or surpass the International Class numbers for her weight class. (if you look at the IGSF or the AKC rankings. I believe her total to hit International Class numbers are 372 (which are my MS numbers)

I will come close to the International Rankings and stand an outside chance of surpassing them. This means I must do a total of 444 (222 Jerks/222 snatches if you split them down the middle). If I don't do it in Miami, I will do it next year.

With a dedicated year of training with the 24kg, I have no doubt about my ability to hit 150 which would also put me there in the Russian Rankings (I could probably do at least 100 today).


But, then again..Maybe you were just talking about the men.

I believe Gregor, Marty, Andrew, and few others have potential. The unknown (and even you don't know this) is how long one should expect to work to achieve these types of numbers..and of course, it will vary depending on the obvious factors....You make assumptions about genetic gifts of those athletes in the videos. Maybe you are right, but you don't know for sure.


CI

7 years consistent training on average in Olympic Lifting to take a talented lifter from novice to elite. Similar time frame in other weight sports.

B.A.D. if my comment is bullcrap, then why aren't you able to total elite? work ethic problems?

Cate...I was referring to the men. As you have pointed out many times the women have it somewhat easier with the 16.

Ah, another day! I've brought along my hat made of heavy duty foil.

That MS Sambo guy posted last week on this forum uses spaceballs incorrectly. Ethan Reeve uses them incorrectly with his athletes. Dan John seems to use them the wrong way, too as did/does Eddie "The Green Ghost." While none of them might be champion athletes themselves, they have certainly helped others eventhough they are using spaceballs the wrong way.

DJ's won a master's throwing and Highlands thing or two. And of korse there's a slew of WSB'ers throwing around AchyBlueBalls.

Have you knuckleheads noticed yet that there is no end to this discussion?

One has to put in the time to total elite. Surely if one did one could. Your statement that only the genetically gifted can do it is rubbish. Anyone that is willing to put in the time it would take can achieve it. People who have full time jobs are usually excluded from this group.

You suffer from the same disease as Rif. Kettlebell sport is neither power lifting nor oly lifting. Whatever "truth" you get from those endeavors may or may not apply. Sweeping generalizations are ill advised.

Why you bother trying to convince everyone that you know everything is silly given the lack of results for your methods. Have you produced any elite level champion kettlebell lifters, coach?

It should be pointed out the Jesse Marunde is no longer with us.

Stefano is full of shit in so many places on that post.

GS is one aspect of kettlebell "lifting." Others well before 1948 used kettlebells to improve fitness and sport and will continue to do so.

The Sambo MS video is a great example, I also have a DVD from Master of Sports, Triple World Champion, 5 times winner of the World Cup Igor Kurinnoy and guess what KB drills he recommends ? It isn't 10 minutes sets of Snatches or Jerks. It's H2H swings and flips.

And to claim that DD changed the design is just an outright lie. There are a thousand photos online that show KBs of different designs from russian sources.

I'll send them to someone to post (since I don't know how) if the doubters don't believe me. But I think it's pretty common knowledge.

Here's one image of former Pride HW Fedor:
http://www.kettlebell.hu/design/feltoltve/hir_6.jpg

The design between his legs looks like a DD design but I highly doubt that they shipped DD bells to Russia. There are multiple designs in that photo.

If Stefano becomes the AKC spokes person they'll quickly lose credibility.

PREDICTION:

The war will last through 2008. If there are 10 or more CMS/MS Americans, the AKC shall have its day in the sun. So far, there is just one MS and I don't know who else is CMS. They will continue to draw good talent, so there's really no excuse--unless the method does not live up to its advance billing. The Born Again Renegade will finally gain a title, but if it is not Level One or better, he will remain the butt of many a ball with handle joke.

Meanwhile, back at reality central, folks will continue to enjoy training with spaceballs however they please and there will be guys in 3rd world countries shooing chickens off the platforms before they knock out absurd numbers of jerks and snatches.

Not to nitpick but that would go under fitness and/or juggling in AKC speak. VF and Cotter did a juggling example at the cert I attended. VF actually started out juggling and moved into the sport aspect of spaceball lifting.