AMRAP sets in strength programs

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Shafpocalypse Now
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AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:51 am

Are best utilized by PED users.

Feel like discussing?

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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Dunn » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:23 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Are best utilized by PED users.

Feel like discussing?
From my own limited view, I would think that the PED user might be able to tolerate and get more out of more frequent use of the AMRAP sets, as opposed to the non-PED user. In my experience the ability to handle more, more often, has been the hallmark of PEDs, so I can definitely see this statement holding water. This is why I'm juiced to the gills for GS.

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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by WildGorillaMan » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:34 pm

I think even before you factor in "restoratives" it depends on the lift/exercise and what the trainee's natural proclivities are.

In my case, as n=1, over the years every single time I've done a high rep "death set" of deadlifts with a heavy weight all I've ever gotten out of them was days of debilitating soreness and weeks of lethargy and not being able to lift much thereafter until I recovered. I've certainly never had a breakthrough afterwards where my old training weights felt lighter and I was demonstrably stronger than before.

And yet, with shoulder presses, I've gotten more strength and hypetrophy out of training presses AMRAP than I ever did doing sets of low reps. I'm also not thrashed for days afterwards training shoulders like that.
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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by TerryB » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:11 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Are best utilized by PED users.

Feel like discussing?
Interesting observation. What's your evidence?

Also, isn't everything "best utilized" people on drugs? It doesn't mean they aren't useful or effective for non-PED users, or is that what you're saying?
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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:21 pm

I realized I hadn't clarified adequately.

HIT style sets to failure is what I'm talking about. They are a hallmark of many programs nowadays: 531, 5th Set, Juggernaut, etc...all of these have some kind of AMRAP sets built in.

I'm not saying they do not work for non PED using athletes. They clearly do. I'm saying that this style of training really shines for those utilizing PEDs. In particular AAS.

These are the reasons why:

1. Testosterone and many of it's derivatives and variations cause a distinct uptick in 'mental energy'. Whether this is some kind of neuron level enhancement, overall brain and nervous system stimulation, or just a change in mindset, it's there.

2. Testosterone and it's ilk improve recomposition. Training to failure depletes the muscle of glycogen and other energetics, and depletes neurotransmitter levels (however fleetingly). AAS improves the rate of recovery.

This is why natural trainees who abandon the relative intensity based training regimens and adopt a "let the volume do the work" attitude often see improvements in body composition, attitude, and strength.

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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:25 pm

And it's all relative anyway, I'm just honing my thoughts on this topic so I can stir shit on Facebook when it's ready.

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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Bobby » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:46 pm

I wouldn`t be able to do AMRAPs as I use my body to make a living (no,I am not a male prostitute!).I never know what I will have to do when I get to work.Some days it is nearly nothing,next day/night I might have to work 8-10 hours under a train with arms above head,drag/lift dead elks etc.
If I did AMRAP sets or @fit style training I might find myself unable to do my job due to either excessive soreness or fatigue.
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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by syaigh » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:55 pm

The 5-3-1 hacks bd prescribed for me and my drug free lifters make it a very effective program. although completely diffrrent. The only similarities to me are the numbers 531. Straight up 531 ground me into paste.
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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:02 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Are best utilized by PED users.

So is everything else.
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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:03 pm

I think they absolutely have a place in the way I strength train. I'm on TRT...my girl training partners are not..they use them to some good effect. I think people who get debilitating soreness from them might be A) not super good at the movement, B) taking it to muscular failure not FORM failure (there's a massive difference) C) a bit under-conditioned for the movement (e.g. they are cunts)

My observations ...maybe skewed but this is what i think that I think....

1) Hard AMRAP sets in the 6-12 range have been the hallmark of massive amounts of progress for me over time, especially touch and go deadlifts.

2) AMRAP Accommodating Resistance high reps sets in the 6-10 range (505x10 with reverse minis is an example, other sets up include, chains, maybe even heavy knee wraps or briefs) helped me break through a huge barrier recently.

3) AMRAP bench sets have consistently allowed me to moderate volume and recover well. I think their biggest benefit is like a finisher....it's a mental break at the end of heavy training that has muscle building stimulus, teaches you to strain through sticking points.

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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:17 pm

I've dropped all AR done on the bigger barbell lifts. This has more to do with the fact that I've been spinning my wheels for so long than anything else, though, I think. I did get a lot out of:

2 board presses done with doubled minibands
Reverse band (light band) deadlifts that deloaded about a 100# off the bottom with the assistance diminishing and disappearing by lockout.
The circa maxima type box squat training gave me huge carryover for suited squatting.

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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:21 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote: Reverse band (light band) deadlifts that deloaded about a 100# off the bottom with the assistance diminishing and disappearing by lockout.
This is the exact set up I use. It's almost exactly 100 pounds top to bottom. Same with Squat out of the mono..
Last edited by Blaidd Drwg on Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:25 pm

maybe by the time I'm 50

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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Bobby » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:34 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:I think they absolutely have a place in the way I strength train. I'm on TRT...my girl training partners are not..they use them to some good effect. I think people who get debilitating soreness from them might be A) not super good at the movement, B) taking it to muscular failure not FORM failure (there's a massive difference) C) a bit under-conditioned for the movement (e.g. they are cunts)

My observations ...maybe skewed but this is what i think that I think....

1) Hard AMRAP sets in the 6-12 range have been the hallmark of massive amounts of progress for me over time, especially touch and go deadlifts.

2) AMRAP Accommodating Resistance high reps sets in the 6-10 range (505x10 with reverse minis is an example, other sets up include, chains, maybe even heavy knee wraps or briefs) helped me break through a huge barrier recently.

3) AMRAP bench sets have consistently allowed me to moderate volume and recover well. I think their biggest benefit is like a finisher....it's a mental break at the end of heavy training that has muscle building stimulus, teaches you to strain through sticking points.

What's not to love?
Me having used B in the past might be my problem,couldn`t possibly be C............. :rolleyes:
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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Bobby » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:36 pm

Come to think about it I use it on benches once in a while.
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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Polo Tomasi » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:08 am

I frequently rep out (with the same wt) on the last set, but avoid failure, as an auto-reg.
-2+ reps over prescribed: add wt next time.
-<prescribed: back off.
Has worked pretty well.

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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by ccrow » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:08 pm

I am convinced that you build basic strength and muscle based on what work you do, volume and load, irrespective of strain / RPE. I am avoiding the word intensity on purpose. You can get that work in with fewer, harder sets, or more, easier sets.

On the muscles, connective tissues, joints, etc., harder sets means more slop and more wear on the joints, and more cortisol for the same amount of training effect. This is a Loss.

On the nervous system, the harder sets take more arousal, cause more stress, and take more out of you. This is a Loss.

Also on the nervous side, you'll have to strain more, so with harder sets you'll learn to strain with heavy-ish weights. Depending on the %1RM you're handling, this may carry over some to max lifts, which are of value to powerlifters, strongman competitors, not really to most other athletics that don't have that low gear slow grind. So this may be a small Win.

There are varying degrees of "hard." BD mentions form failure vs muscular failure, you can go kind of hard, quitting as soon as form degrades in the least, or you can keep repping until you seeing a white light and dead relatives. If you go to form failure / kind of hard, you'll only need a little psych up and you do just one sloppy rep. If you crank up Hall of the Valkyries and go for the hernia, you'll do more sloppy reps.

I think that going hard in training may have real psychological / social benefits, a form of the placebo effect. People like getting cranked up. Some people feel that they only deserve benefits if they earn them painfully (Catholic guilt). Some people get a charge out of hooting with their teammates and pushing each other. Only a naif would deny that these benefits can outweigh the detriments, especially if you don't go full moron. But it would be better still to find a way to stay emotionally engaged without resorting to less-than-best training methods. That involves focusing more on the outcome than the process.
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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by SubClaw » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:37 pm

ccrow wrote:I think that going hard in training may have real psychological / social benefits, a form of the placebo effect. People like getting cranked up. Some people feel that they only deserve benefits if they earn them painfully (XFit guilt).
Fixed that for you.

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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by climber511 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:54 pm

If the chosen weight for AMRAP = 5 reps - it's a whole different game than if AMAP = 50 reps. I know this is an extreme example but often so is what (and why) people do them. I limit them (when I do them) to accessory movements - not main movements. Once in a while I think they have a place but not a regular diet of them.

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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:01 pm

Minute 4.33

This is an AMRAP set. Hard but within tolerances. Form totally shits the bed on 7...Done.

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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Holland Oates » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:21 am

I'm using a modified 5th set template for my current rebuilding phase. I'm setting a rep max limit at 5. I used a similar plan the last time I did 5/3/1 and it kept me from crashing.
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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:35 am

I don't know, with the long, long, long cycles of 5th Set with not so much weight changing on the bars, I think it's important to chase ever bigger rep counts

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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:04 am

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:I don't know, with the long, long, long cycles of 5th Set with not so much weight changing on the bars, I think it's important to chase ever bigger rep counts
That's an important point I suspect... Which kinda goes to your original assertion re: drugz
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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:21 pm

Duchaine once said that he found it far more valuable to increase repetitions at a given weight than ramping it up as fast as possible. He claimed that the improvement in maximum repetitions lasted far longer after the drug regimen was ended than gains in maximal strength, which pretty much start to flee as soon the exogenous drugs get out of your system.

There's something to be said about it, especially for building connective tissue that can support more weight...it's a long term approach.

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Re: AMRAP sets in strength programs

Post by Boris » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:40 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Duchaine once said that he found it far more valuable to increase repetitions at a given weight than ramping it up as fast as possible. He claimed that the improvement in maximum repetitions lasted far longer after the drug regimen was ended than gains in maximal strength, which pretty much start to flee as soon the exogenous drugs get out of your system.

There's something to be said about it, especially for building connective tissue that can support more weight...it's a long term approach.
(PEDs aside - I don't know enough to comment) I think there's a lot to be said for getting many quality, quality reps banked, no matter what your strength goals are.

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