Dan John game-changer strength standards

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The Ginger Beard Man
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:25 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
climber511 wrote:
The Ginger Beard Man wrote:
Boris wrote:
climber511 wrote:Speed is born into you - training can only help a very little bit.
That's garbage actually. I know a ton of kids that can and do train to become fuck-ton faster. I'm not talking about outliers.
As a freshman and sophomore hs "sprinter", I was slow. I never got out of the first heat in anything they tried me at, 100s, 200s, 400s. It didn't matter.
But I was constantly in the weight room and got stronger and bigger. By the time I played lacrosse as a junior and senior, I had good speed and athleticism. As a college a college freshman I moved to defense to long stick middie because I had "wheels".
Not to be argumentative but you also went from being a "kid" to becoming a young "man" in that 4 or 5 year period of time. While the weight room certainly played a big role in developing your speed change - so did the age and size change that would have occurred anyway at that period of your life (puberty is good for something).
He also stopped competing against fast kids at being fast. LOLacrosse
I don't think I managed to convey just how slow I was at that point. Also, I'm not sure why you're LOL'ing at lacrosse, Spells. It isn't track, but there were some outstanding athletes on the field. Entitled rich scumbags, sure, but also outstanding.
Climber, I do get your point. It may be that track and lifting kept me involved while I matured, but I'm not sure I could have taken advantage of my genetic potential without them, either.
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Shafpocalypse Now
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:26 pm

Be careful with the flexibility stuff...if you get too flexible you will lose the stretch-reflex shit entirely. This is one reason most people only need a specific amount of flexibility in their hamstrings, more is counterproductive to pulling or sprinting.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:26 pm

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:03 pm

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:I don't think I managed to convey just how slow I was at that point. Also, I'm not sure why you're LOL'ing at lacrosse, Spells. It isn't track, but there were some outstanding athletes on the field. Entitled rich scumbags, sure, but also outstanding.
I didn't mean to mock lacrosse. I was joking that you went from being considered slow to being considered fast, and training may have had something to do with it. But much, much more importantly, the benchmark of what "fast" is changed. Lacrosse is a fine sport, but rarely is anyone on that field going to be "fast" compared to a competitive H.S. sprinter.

That's not a knock on lacrosse so much as an acknowledgement that sprinters are super quick compared to pretty much everybody, outside of sports like football where a guy is also a sprinter when he's not a wide receiver.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:18 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:That's not a knock on lacrosse so much as an acknowledgement that sprinters are super quick compared to pretty much everybody, outside of sports where a guy is also a sprinter when he's not a wide receiver.
This is the most important distinction so far.

Slotting the 99% of the rest of the world into that metric is DUMB. It's exactly about as useful as comparing sex with your high school girlfriend to sex with Stoya. Ummmm she's a professional competing in a different league, Son. Meanwhile back on earth where most athletes turn something more than a 10sec 100m.....


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This is the classic fallacy of using outliers to set the rules. Ya Ya...everyone knows that real talent is made in the womb.... but for everyone else, developing and expressing the talent of speed or power (or more likley intra muscular coordination to express the maximum of both of those) is super fuckin trainable.

I swear sometimes I think this country is trying to give over all notions of physicality to the professionals and resign everyone above the age of toddler to continuous soft hits of dancing to oldies music and developing more creative chip dips for the superbowl party.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by climber511 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:37 pm

At what age do you guys think one's "speed" peaks?

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:41 pm

climber511 wrote:At what age do you guys think one's "speed" peaks?

If we're talking pure 100 meter straight line speed by the very talented I'll bet it's going to be about the same time that most raw athletic ability peaks...24-29....with a long holdover..look at some of these guys.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_w ... 100_metres

If you were a lazy schlub until 22 and then started training in earnest, your experiment of one could see you peaking much later..probably after 3-8 years of training, maybe more.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by powerlifter54 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:42 pm

Getting Athletes in a basic program of strength movements and some running and starting technique training pays dividends. Game changing depends a lot on the X and O skills of the other coaches and freakiness of their charges compared to yours.My experience has been looking at a Team you have a huge organizational challenge of how to allocate coaches and platforms amongst a lot of athletes. Interns help here but not available in HS. In a one on one basis it is about focusing the assistance moves and drills on the closest alligator to the boat until there is a new one closer.

A friend played HS Football with Ken Griffey Jr at Cincinnati Moeller. He said on team of motivated and trained with a few quite above average athletes KG was easily the best and never lifted a weight and was a practice dog. My friend who started 4 years as a D1 FS/CB told me he was the only guy he could not consistently cover, ever.

And it is arguable from 19 to 30 he was as good as anybody ever was or will be. But by 31 he was going downhill and never had another great season or even approached his lifetime averages in any metric. I would argue that winters of playing golf and drinking beer with Tiger Woods in Orlando caught up with him. He rehabbed his hamstrings and feet but was never really the same. I would also argue the reason freaks need to work hard in the weight room is to help avoid injuries and extend their career. The rest of the schlubs hit the weight room just to help even seeing the field. JMO.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:49 pm

The difference between Griffey and Bonds.....

A willingness to do what was necessary after he turned 30.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:53 pm

powerlifter54 wrote:Getting Athletes in a basic program of strength movements and some running and starting technique training pays dividends. Game changing depends a lot on the X and O skills of the other coaches and freakiness of their charges compared to yours.My experience has been looking at a Team you have a huge organizational challenge of how to allocate coaches and platforms amongst a lot of athletes. Interns help here but not available in HS. In a one on one basis it is about focusing the assistance moves and drills on the closest alligator to the boat until there is a new one closer.
Which is why...coaches for individual sports are 900% of the time > coaches of team sports...IME.

Team sports is straight up management. Individual sports is development.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:40 pm

Of course, we're back to context. (Maybe we never left.) There's T&F fast and field/court fast. A game changer for me in lacrosse would have been better stick skills. Griffey wouldn't have to hit benchmark numbers in the weight room, he would have benefitted from showing up and doing a bit of work.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by powerlifter54 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:41 am

Blaidd Drwg wrote:The difference between Griffey and Bonds.....

A willingness to do what was necessary after he turned 30.
Bonds is the best i ever saw.

And his stack made him even more unbelievable.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Really Big Strong Guy » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:38 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Be careful with the flexibility stuff...if you get too flexible you will lose the stretch-reflex shit entirely. This is one reason most people only need a specific amount of flexibility in their hamstrings, more is counterproductive to pulling or sprinting.
Excellent point. To be honest, I think a lot of my thoracic immobility has more to do with the power belly I've developed from years of not wearing a belt on heavy pulls and squats and direct ab work. I've been very regimented in my ab/torso work for many years because of the number of people in my sport who have injured their lower backs in their late 30s and early 40s (my father included). Now, I look like a walking brick, but when shirtless I have visable abs without flexing with hardly no very little visable chub on the mid section. I'm going to incorporate various child poses that put my thoracic region in a stretch position in the obliques and transverse abdominals - while upping the output (fuckin' swear word "cardio" :hda: ), start wearing a belt more frequently and report back in a few months with my progress.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by WildGorillaMan » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:28 pm

Really Big Strong Guy wrote:
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Be careful with the flexibility stuff...if you get too flexible you will lose the stretch-reflex shit entirely. This is one reason most people only need a specific amount of flexibility in their hamstrings, more is counterproductive to pulling or sprinting.
Excellent point. To be honest, I think a lot of my thoracic immobility has more to do with the power belly I've developed from years of not wearing a belt on heavy pulls and squats and direct ab work. I've been very regimented in my ab/torso work for many years because of the number of people in my sport who have injured their lower backs in their late 30s and early 40s (my father included). Now, I look like a walking brick, but when shirtless I have visable abs without flexing with hardly no very little visable chub on the mid section. I'm going to incorporate various child poses that put my thoracic region in a stretch position in the obliques and transverse abdominals - while upping the output (fuckin' swear word "cardio" :hda: ), start wearing a belt more frequently and report back in a few months with my progress.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by powerlifter54 » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:56 pm

Really Big Strong Guy wrote:
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Be careful with the flexibility stuff...if you get too flexible you will lose the stretch-reflex shit entirely. This is one reason most people only need a specific amount of flexibility in their hamstrings, more is counterproductive to pulling or sprinting.
Excellent point. To be honest, I think a lot of my thoracic immobility has more to do with the power belly I've developed from years of not wearing a belt on heavy pulls and squats and direct ab work. I've been very regimented in my ab/torso work for many years because of the number of people in my sport who have injured their lower backs in their late 30s and early 40s (my father included). Now, I look like a walking brick, but when shirtless I have visable abs without flexing with hardly no very little visable chub on the mid section. I'm going to incorporate various child poses that put my thoracic region in a stretch position in the obliques and transverse abdominals - while upping the output (fuckin' swear word "cardio" :hda: ), start wearing a belt more frequently and report back in a few months with my progress.
my belt makes it worse.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Really Big Strong Guy » Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:15 pm

powerlifter54 wrote:
Really Big Strong Guy wrote:
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Be careful with the flexibility stuff...if you get too flexible you will lose the stretch-reflex shit entirely. This is one reason most people only need a specific amount of flexibility in their hamstrings, more is counterproductive to pulling or sprinting.
Excellent point. To be honest, I think a lot of my thoracic immobility has more to do with the power belly I've developed from years of not wearing a belt on heavy pulls and squats and direct ab work. I've been very regimented in my ab/torso work for many years because of the number of people in my sport who have injured their lower backs in their late 30s and early 40s (my father included). Now, I look like a walking brick, but when shirtless I have visable abs without flexing with hardly no very little visable chub on the mid section. I'm going to incorporate various child poses that put my thoracic region in a stretch position in the obliques and transverse abdominals - while upping the output (fuckin' swear word "cardio" :hda: ), start wearing a belt more frequently and report back in a few months with my progress.
my belt makes it worse.
well shit.......perhaps just on heavier sets. And wearing a Velcro belt when doing Oly lifts then. <<<<q
The cool thing about training is that becoming more sexy is just a side effect........

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