Dan John game-changer strength standards

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by powerlifter54 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:22 pm

Think one of his biggest game changers was leaving SF to go back with JDC.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Beer Jew » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:55 pm

Some of you lard arses need to lose some chub if a bw squat for 15 reps is even approaching difficult.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:20 pm

powerlifter54 wrote:Think one of his biggest game changers was leaving SF to go back with JDC.
Seriously.

How crappy do you have to treat people so they are jumping ship like this? Reifkind. Dan. Toomey, who was running the thing.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by SubClaw » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:41 pm

Beer Jew wrote:Some of you lard arses need to lose some chub if a bw squat for 15 reps is even approaching difficult.
Said the she-man who just confessed to not being able to do a single pull up. :finga:

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Danny John » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:11 pm

I miss the good old days when IGX was "under repair."

It means this: if you can do those things, the weightroom is NOT your problem...something else is in your sport. If you are not playing your sport at a high level, then "it's not my fault" says the strength coach.

I love how you guys pull up crap from a decade ago and pop it up here.

I have probably ten sets of standards. Paul has his for adults (which he got rid of, too), I use Nathan's two levels for KBs, as well as the Finnish Track and Field numbers, Fahey's of course, and the ones I came up with for high school varsity sports (if you give the Head FB coach 62 kids who can all Power Clean, Front Squat and Bench 205...it might not be my fault if you lose).

I don't even remember why "Game Changer" was used, I don't use these numbers except to point out the issue with the athlete or position coach. I think we came up with it when girls could DL 275 and suddenly the weightroom work helped them on the Field of Play. Up to that point, it was nice that they lifted, but you couldn't "see it." Lindsay pulled 350 as a senior and only added two feet to her shot, so that was a good lesson to remind me that "enough is enough."

As for you all with the lack of Get Up...you are so bad ass!...the idea was to find a way to test the shoulder, back and lower body stability and mobility in a way that was self-correcting. We tried all those sticks and measurements, but this worked much better. When I was with Mark Twight back East, this drill became a great way to get guys to stop just finding more ways to get tired...which is the last thing this group needed.

As for the Overhead for 15. For the 10,000th time: I was quoting another coach. I never said to do it. I did it with 265/120K and found that it made my elbows go numb.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by climber511 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:38 pm

Dan - The Get Up is always getting tossed out as some kind of magic - and I simply can not see it - as a curative maybe to solve certain problems but as an exercise not so much. I have done lots of them and they are "OK". I guess once you do enough of them they become just another exercise and not all that special? I have never gone really heavy on Get Ups - just 106# at a 200# BW so maybe I just need more weight but I don't think that's it. When I do them anymore I do them bottoms up with no more than a 24K - seems to make for more stabilization if that makes sense. I just believe that I don't have the particular weaknesses any more that they address.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:48 pm

Danny John wrote:It means this: if you can do those things, the weightroom is NOT your problem...something else is in your sport. If you are not playing your sport at a high level, then "it's not my fault" says the strength coach.
Logical. A lot of athletes can't hit the numbers gym rats can.

One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Danny John » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:57 pm

Right. Strong in the weightroom does not always apply on the field of play. That is why hiring old lifters either works really well or awful. Some simply try to make a lifting team. Others, Clyde Emrich and a bunch come to mind, come up with these great systems that work for years.

On the get up, a glass of water has to stay up at Zenith with no wiggling. So, guys might be able to bench vertical and military vertical and maybe arm bar, but when they move their hips, something "bites" and the water tumbles. I see almost no value in loaded get ups...the drills, yes...but this idea of doing huge TGUs makes no sense. I'm sure there are wrestling types that could use it, but just using a dummy or bag would be just as good. So, it is the ability to hold the arm in "one plane" is what we are testing. Plus, frankly, it is funny when it spills. And, that is true.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:19 pm

Danny John wrote:I miss the good old days when IGX was "under repair."

It means this: if you can do those things, the weightroom is NOT your problem...something else is in your sport. If you are not playing your sport at a high level, then "it's not my fault" says the strength coach.

I love how you guys pull up crap from a decade ago and pop it up here.

I have probably ten sets of standards. Paul has his for adults (which he got rid of, too), I use Nathan's two levels for KBs, as well as the Finnish Track and Field numbers, Fahey's of course, and the ones I came up with for high school varsity sports (if you give the Head FB coach 62 kids who can all Power Clean, Front Squat and Bench 205...it might not be my fault if you lose).

I don't even remember why "Game Changer" was used, I don't use these numbers except to point out the issue with the athlete or position coach. I think we came up with it when girls could DL 275 and suddenly the weightroom work helped them on the Field of Play. Up to that point, it was nice that they lifted, but you couldn't "see it." Lindsay pulled 350 as a senior and only added two feet to her shot, so that was a good lesson to remind me that "enough is enough."

As for you all with the lack of Get Up...you are so bad ass!...the idea was to find a way to test the shoulder, back and lower body stability and mobility in a way that was self-correcting. We tried all those sticks and measurements, but this worked much better. When I was with Mark Twight back East, this drill became a great way to get guys to stop just finding more ways to get tired...which is the last thing this group needed.

As for the Overhead for 15. For the 10,000th time: I was quoting another coach. I never said to do it. I did it with 265/120K and found that it made my elbows go numb.
Stop whining. It's unbecoming.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:19 pm

To be Honest...rehashing old T-Nation tropes from the distant past has resulted in more good discussion in this place than just about anything other than Pistol Wars and the Big Girl Thread.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by stanley_white » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:41 am

Danny John wrote: I use Nathan's two levels for KBs
Can you elaborate on this please?

Thank you.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by TerryB » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:16 am

Danny John wrote:I miss the good old days when IGX was "under repair."
:teehee
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Danny John » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:31 am

Stanley White, email me. All I have is pics of the standards.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Bud Charniga's grape ape » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:06 am

Danny John wrote:
I love how you guys pull up crap from a decade ago and pop it up here.
For what it's worth, I think that to the extent the IGx hivemind singles out your articles more than anyone else's it's for two reasons:

1) folks tend to agree with you more than not. Look at this thread: some people are arguing about the numbers, some people are arguing about specific movements, but no one's arguing with the basic premise. That's what makes it fun to discuss. If the point was to shoot fish in a barrel -- I mean, this is the internet; there's no shortage of bad advice; Breaking Muscle and r/fitness still exist as going concerns; etc. But there aren't a lot of threads here about "hey, what do you guys think about this Xfit L1's advice about the butterfly kip?".

2) You show up and explain yourself. If parts of your article were unclear, or got mangled by the T-Nation editors, you tend to clarify them. If you've changed your mind over time, you tend to say that. Whereas even if we did have a burning curiosity to talk about Burpee McWallball's latest blog post, he's not likely to come talk about it himself.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Beer Jew » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:48 am

Bud Charniga's grape ape wrote:
Danny John wrote:
I love how you guys pull up crap from a decade ago and pop it up here.
For what it's worth, I think that to the extent the IGx hivemind singles out your articles more than anyone else's it's for two reasons:

1) folks tend to agree with you more than not. Look at this thread: some people are arguing about the numbers, some people are arguing about specific movements, but no one's arguing with the basic premise. That's what makes it fun to discuss. If the point was to shoot fish in a barrel -- I mean, this is the internet; there's no shortage of bad advice; Breaking Muscle and r/fitness still exist as going concerns; etc. But there aren't a lot of threads here about "hey, what do you guys think about this Xfit L1's advice about the butterfly kip?".

2) You show up and explain yourself. If parts of your article were unclear, or got mangled by the T-Nation editors, you tend to clarify them. If you've changed your mind over time, you tend to say that. Whereas even if we did have a burning curiosity to talk about Burpee McWallball's latest blog post, he's not likely to come talk about it himself.
No soliciting!

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by TerryB » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:53 am

Bud Charniga's grape ape wrote:
Danny John wrote:
I love how you guys pull up crap from a decade ago and pop it up here.
For what it's worth, I think that to the extent the IGx hivemind singles out your articles more than anyone else's it's for two reasons:

1) folks tend to agree with you more than not. Look at this thread: some people are arguing about the numbers, some people are arguing about specific movements, but no one's arguing with the basic premise. That's what makes it fun to discuss. If the point was to shoot fish in a barrel -- I mean, this is the internet; there's no shortage of bad advice; Breaking Muscle and r/fitness still exist as going concerns; etc. But there aren't a lot of threads here about "hey, what do you guys think about this Xfit L1's advice about the butterfly kip?".

2) You show up and explain yourself. If parts of your article were unclear, or got mangled by the T-Nation editors, you tend to clarify them. If you've changed your mind over time, you tend to say that. Whereas even if we did have a burning curiosity to talk about Burpee McWallball's latest blog post, he's not likely to come talk about it himself.
Don't.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Danny John » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:08 pm

I wasn't grumpy. Actually, yes, I was. I think it is the Overhead Squat thing that pulls out the whole attitude. If you can ever actually listen to the WHOLE Velocity Diet story, it is quite good, versus the stupid shit people say. If I can figure out how to load a PDF, I will send some other standards.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by SubClaw » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:53 pm

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by climber511 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:39 pm

Danny John wrote:I wasn't grumpy. Actually, yes, I was. I think it is the Overhead Squat thing that pulls out the whole attitude. If you can ever actually listen to the WHOLE Velocity Diet story, it is quite good, versus the stupid shit people say. If I can figure out how to load a PDF, I will send some other standards.
Dan - a list of the different "standards" would be nice. As well as your thoughts on how the different items might apply to different goals or sports maybe. I mean the things that make for a better football player and the things that might make a better rock climber are probably quite different.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:53 pm

Universal standards are universally silly.

There are People who do stuff....

They have weaknesses.

They have strengths.

Those change over time.

"Game changers" could theoretically be as insignificant as learning a get up or as substantial a feet as squatting 2xBWx10 depending on context. Removing context is the favored method of S&C money sucking system.
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by DikTracy6000 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:47 pm

Think I was close on most of these 40 YEARS AGO. Bench okay at 215. Did 20 rep squat program same time. Did 12 pullups in my mid fifties. Doesn't matter at all now but makes a good article.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Shapecharge » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:27 pm

You need to add a "risk" element to some of these lifts to enhance their Facebook/YouTube potential. Therefore I strongly recommend the get up with a cup of water be substituted with a cup of gasoline that is burning. Same act but with a risk element that really ups the ante on concentration and execution. Just a suggestion is all.

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by mike.b » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:53 pm

I started this to see if it's just a bunch of arm-chair lifters on this board to my surprise there are some fking strong mofos over here.... :prayer:

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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Danny John » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:36 pm

It's hard to read past the crap here, but this was good:


"Dan - a list of the different "standards" would be nice. As well as your thoughts on how the different items might apply to different goals or sports maybe. I mean the things that make for a better football player and the things that might make a better rock climber are probably quite different."
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Re: Dan John game-changer strength standards

Post by Danny John » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:39 pm

Here
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