Round Back Good Mornings

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TomFurman
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Round Back Good Mornings

Post by TomFurman » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:42 pm

What would the risk/benefit ratio of this exercise be? I mean if it makes you super strong with little risk. Sure.
I just seems that any gains are attached to a ticking time bomb called, "your spine".

Some insight would be appreciated.
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TerryB
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by TerryB » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:59 pm

I think it's crazy for risk vs. reward.

The only reason you'd intentionally do it is (A) you compete at high levels of powerlifting and can't find a better assistance exercise for your pull (or possibly squat) (example: billy mimnaugh's 600 pound good mornings), or (B) you've read too much online by so-called experts who've suggested that occasionally flexing your spine under load will be good for those times when, for whatever reason, your groceries are too heavy or you're lifting a toilet and forced into a round-backed position, at which point you'll be oh so glad you trained for this exact moment. Truth be told, you'd be better off training overall core stability and hip strength so that when you have to lift that toilet, you can do it from a round backed position without exploding like a fragile girl.
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by Boris » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:42 pm

Not a fan. Straight legged DLs, seated GMs, rounded back GMs, etc. are not my friends. Deficit DLs I think are good training, but I have to be reeeeaaaally careful about them overtraining my lower back.

I get the rationale, but it's never done good by me to intentionally put my lower back in a bad position and train that way. Some of that is probably a build issue - if you are built to deadlift, you might get away with it longer, but I don't get away with it...

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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by TomFurman » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:04 pm

I was thinking this might be WAY safer and more therapeutic.
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WildGorillaMan
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by WildGorillaMan » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:41 pm

If you have a back genetically engineered from steel hawsers and reinforced concrete they're an exercise that will reap dividends.

However if you're a normal human, less so. And as a bonus, if you have any kind of deficiency in the structure of your posterior chain, you'll find it this way.
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WildGorillaMan
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by WildGorillaMan » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:46 pm

TomFurman wrote:I was thinking this might be WAY safer and more therapeutic.
https://www.facebook.com/AwakenAdultGym ... 495013662/
I do that, unloaded, with the pad of the GHD at the top of my thighs, just below the hip crease. Great stretch.

Since we're on the topic, weighted reverse hypers never did much for me. I feel like I get the benefits of the movement doing them unweighted laying backwards on my GHD.
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by Bud Charniga's grape ape » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:12 pm

I've liked to use round-backed movements with light weight and higher reps as a stretch and as a way to get blood flowing. By light I mean like SLDLs with 135-185 (weight is usually whatever's conveniently still on the bar after I unload most of it) for 20-30 reps, or reverse hypers, going into flexion at the bottom, with bodyweight or a 45-lb plate, also for 20-30 reps. I make no claims other than that they work for me personally to make my glass back feel better.

Using them with higher weight/lower reps has always seemed like a bad idea to me.

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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by powerlifter54 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:26 pm

Risk to reward is just bad here. i got a very bad injury doing straight back GMs for Max Effort. Discovered i got way more out of GMs when i did them with moderate 3-5 sets of 5, staying away from RPE above 8. In my experience they are a squat stability movement, and did nada for my DL. If you can't hold a neutral spine, in a GM or a RDL, you need to lower the weight.

Have seen some round back moves for rehab, but have never done them.
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by Testiclaw » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:13 pm

It depends on what kind of rounded back you're talking about.

I love rounded back GCB's for heavy 3's.

The trick is that the lower back and abs stay braced and neutral.

The rounded back comes from the middle and upper back. For me, I start with my head down and upper back slightly caved, but it stays there through the entire motion.

That same technique shows up other places, too: Matt Wenning does GCB narrow box squats with his chin tucked into his chest for deadlift assistance.

So, for a "rounded-back" goodmorning, the entire back isn't actually rounded.

If you wanted, Tom, I could film the movement from the back or side next time I do them so you can see how I do them better.
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by Testiclaw » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:15 pm

powerlifter54 wrote:Risk to reward is just bad here. i got a very bad injury doing straight back GMs for Max Effort. Discovered i got way more out of GMs when i did them with moderate 3-5 sets of 5, staying away from RPE above 8. In my experience they are a squat stability movement, and did nada for my DL. If you can't hold a neutral spine, in a GM or a RDL, you need to lower the weight.

Have seen some round back moves for rehab, but have never done them.
YMMV

For what it's worth, I've spent time with very strong lifters who do arched back goodmornings for ME work, and none have had a problem.

Max effort doesn't mean losing a neutral, or arched, spine.
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by Testiclaw » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:15 pm

powerlifter54 wrote:Risk to reward is just bad here. i got a very bad injury doing straight back GMs for Max Effort. Discovered i got way more out of GMs when i did them with moderate 3-5 sets of 5, staying away from RPE above 8. In my experience they are a squat stability movement, and did nada for my DL. If you can't hold a neutral spine, in a GM or a RDL, you need to lower the weight.

Have seen some round back moves for rehab, but have never done them.
YMMV

For what it's worth, I've spent time with very strong lifters who do arched back goodmornings for ME work, and none have had a problem.

Max effort doesn't mean losing a neutral, or arched, spine.
My cousin is a redheaded german-mexican, we call him a beanerschnitzel

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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by TerryB » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:53 pm

I think this is what testicle's is talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEZuj2bI3Y0
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by Testiclaw » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:28 am

He has a solid lower back position, and a rounded upper back/tucked chin, which I like.

I do the same suspended GCB goodmornings for max effort work, using singles.
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Re: Round Back Good Morning

Post by SubClaw » Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:43 am

TomFurman wrote:I was thinking this might be WAY safer and more therapeutic.
https://www.facebook.com/AwakenAdultGym ... 495013662/
That was a nice link, Tom! There's a ton of interesting videos.

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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by Sangoma » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:47 am

TomFurman wrote:I was thinking this might be WAY safer and more therapeutic.
https://www.facebook.com/AwakenAdultGym ... 495013662/
For some reason out of the whole link I mostly noticed "Adult". Disappointed after clicking.
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WildGorillaMan
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by WildGorillaMan » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:30 pm

Sangoma wrote:
TomFurman wrote:I was thinking this might be WAY safer and more therapeutic.
https://www.facebook.com/AwakenAdultGym ... 495013662/
For some reason out of the whole link I mostly noticed "Adult". Disappointed after clicking.

Right?
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:53 pm

Safety?
How safe is it to be a glass-backed candy ass?

If you can't lift with a rounded upper back and a stable core you can't really lift anything useful period. Whether RBGM's are the right call comes down to a myriad of factors but ALL manual labor, grappling and rough field sports like Rugby and football involve a stable core and rounded upper back at some point. Whether you learn it through gymnastics, wrestling, sandbag, bail of hay, shovel or with a barbell is not as important as that you learn it.
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by Sangoma » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:22 am

Lifting with rounded lower back is close to death penalty. Rounded upper back - no problem. Though at important moments my brain gets confused, and I can only be sure of the actual lift I did an hour later. If I cannot get up from the chair - it was rounded lower back deadlift...
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Beer Jew
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by Beer Jew » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:28 am

IME the danger comes from trying to keep your lower back stable and having it pulled out of position.

I've lifted with a rounded lower back for years and never had any back issues.

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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by TerryB » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:16 pm

Beer Jew wrote:IME the danger comes from trying to keep your lower back stable and having it pulled out of position.

I've lifted with a rounded lower back for years and never had any back issues.
Never had any back issues? You can't bench 315, m8.
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Beer Jew
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by Beer Jew » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:51 pm

I also can't play the guitar but that's neither here nor there.

When was the last time you benched 315 Terrence?

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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by TerryB » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:20 pm

It's hard to remember....
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powerlifter54
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by powerlifter54 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:22 pm

Agree with consensus that upper back rounding is OK but lower back not so much. Good mornings with a rounded back i do not do and do not recommend or coach them. If you can't hold a neutral spine, and by that i mean low back, you are going too heavy.

Most of the really strong folks i know went to bottoms up GMs.
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Re: Round Back Good Mornings

Post by tough old man » Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:56 am

Maybe its closer to my form when lifting stones. I think I agree with BD though
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