FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:22 am

OCG wrote:The "guru effect" would explain how a lot of articles get shared. I don't actually understand this = It must be good.
I think the "Guru Effect" on articles getting shared is simply goo roos networking together to use each other for marketing.

Goo Roo 1 writes article touting his latest thing.
Goo Roos 2-37 share the article and slobber all over it, knowing that when they write their article selling their latest thing, all other goo roos will reciprocate.
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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by TerryB » Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:16 pm

HUMANMOVEMENT
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HUMANMOVEMENT! !!!
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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by JohnDoe » Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:09 pm

There's an inherent irony in IGXers being Icons of Iconoclasm, Goo Roos of NOGOOROO.

Unavoidable of course, but ironic, like one of my students going home and telling his parents, 'Teacher says I need to think for myself'.

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by WildGorillaMan » Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:31 pm

NEOSAVAGE OR GTFO, BICHOS!

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:05 pm


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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Bob Wildes » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:02 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Nubain for the mother fucking win

So the rotater didn't do much for you?

Did you ever try one of those shoulder horns?
"Tell A.P. Hill he must come up."

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:04 pm

Palette cleanse......

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:07 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Nubain for the mother fucking win
From Gerg NumbKnuckols
Oral painkillers generally decrease rate of muscle growth in young people, but there's a growing body of evidence that they actually help older folks get more jacked.

Here's a recent study to that effect: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26817469

In folks who were in their mid-60s, taking tylenol in conjunction with lifting caused more growth than lifting while taking a placebo: 37% vs. 26% fiber size increase for type II fibers, and 28% vs. 0% increase for type I fibers.

Just a reminder that information needs to be contextualized, and that something that may be demonstrably unhelpful for some people could be hugely beneficial for others.
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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:07 pm

So, I want to point out that I'm looking to learn something I can use when I read shit, gooroo or otherwise. A lot of time I learn something, but have found it's basically useless.

Anyway.

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:04 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:So, I want to point out that I'm looking to learn something I can use when I read shit, gooroo or otherwise. A lot of time I learn something, but have found it's basically useless.

Anyway.
The less I read from known dubious sources, the better I think. I used to feel like I needed to sluice through all sort of potentially interesting stuff.
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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:23 pm

There is that. Convergence.

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by climber511 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:27 pm

Gurus have to come up with something "unique" - some hook - something that makes them special and stand out from the crowd of other gurus. And let's face it - this stuff really isn't brain surgery. No matter how hard we all try to make it so. Everything I absolutely needed to know I learned 50 years ago. Oh sure there's tons of stuff to talk about for that last 10% but the basics will still take you 90% of the way to where you want to go.

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:18 am

climber511 wrote:Gurus have to come up with something "unique" - some hook - something that makes them special and stand out from the crowd of other gurus. And let's face it - this stuff really isn't brain surgery. No matter how hard we all try to make it so. Everything I absolutely needed to know I learned 50 years ago. Oh sure there's tons of stuff to talk about for that last 10% but the basics will still take you 90% of the way to where you want to go.
True....to a certain degree across the board.

BUT...where I think Shaf and I both end up chasing rabbits is in not looking for secrets or dragon door gimmickery but more, looking at the best practices. What are the thematic pieces that seem to work well over time and why? That's an area where you have to do a huge amount of sifting, be deep into the weeds or..know a whole bunch of specialists in different but related fields of inquiry. It's one of the things I like about this place, 90% of the people worth listening to have gone DEEP with their chosen pursuit,...these sorts of moments are hard to replicate unless you are really putting yourself out there OR..just happen to know some really excellent people.

I feel super lucky in that IRL, I get exposed to a decent range of athletic and nonathletic types and get to observe how masterfully different people evolve their practice. That's one reason I find generalists to be so useless in large part becuase to be a generalist, you really only need to grasp about 80% of the idea....far less in some cases. This is no slam on you...I know you have massive range of intersts, I'm simply saying, by way of examples, the talent it takes to climb 5.10 or race Cat 3, or squat 405 is a world away from the understandin you get in breaking though to be a 5.11 plus climber or a Cat 1/2 or squatting 500 for reps. Again, not a critique of those who are very contented to doing many things well...I think that's healthy and smart it's just that once you peek past the curtain, it's very hard to not want to at least be operating within the same realm of those who have gone a little further. I think in all pursuits there is that break point where you go from having a pretty good understanding of all the pieces to suddenly, you're swimming with sharks and nothing that got you this far will help. It's that Beginner's Mind reset.
"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:24 am

Bob Wildes wrote:
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Nubain for the mother fucking win

So the rotater didn't do much for you?

Did you ever try one of those shoulder horns?
The rotator does an excellent job of stretching the external rotators, and almost as good a job of stretching the internal rotators, but it's not enough and the flexibility gains are not that long lasting

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:30 am

I was looking for secrets until recently. I was sure that even though I out worked my competition, and still lost, that there was a key that I was missing. Sadly that key turned out to be potential, coupled with a lack of physical resilience.

I was a jack of all trades, sat in the middle, strong enough to be stronger than many, fast enough to be faster than many, and with endurance enough to outlast many, yet those I chose to pit myself against had that spark I lacked.

I'm sure there was a sport out there that I was suited for, it was almost...almost rugby...it was almost wrestling...it was never powerlifting or throwing.

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Bram » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:53 am

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Bob Wildes wrote:
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Nubain for the mother fucking win

So the rotater didn't do much for you?

Did you ever try one of those shoulder horns?
The rotator does an excellent job of stretching the external rotators, and almost as good a job of stretching the internal rotators, but it's not enough and the flexibility gains are not that long lasting
I assume you used it to strengthen the rotator cuff as well?

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:16 am

The rotator doesn't work worth a fuck for strengthening the cuff unless you are almost an invalid. But yeah, using cables, bands, etc, external rotation strengthening was done. And actually, what I meant to say is that the rotator stretches the INTERNAL rotators very well, the EXTERNAL rotators not quite as well.

Stretch internal, strengthen external.

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:46 am

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:I was a jack of all trades, sat in the middle, strong enough to be stronger than many, fast enough to be faster than many, and with endurance enough to outlast many, yet those I chose to pit myself against had that spark I lacked.

I'm sure there was a sport out there that I was suited for, it was almost...almost rugby...it was almost wrestling...it was never powerlifting or throwing.
I chased one of (two if you count the velodrome) the sports I was truly suited for. I have decent mix of fast and slow twitch, I can intuit the correct lines, I have a head for tactics clean and dirty as well as consistent equipment prep. Sharp wake up as you go from the fastest person you know locally to middle of the pack regionally and if lucky nationally. You very quickly find your self chasing the top ten instead of blowing through it.

Constantly reminded of that Todd Marinovitch quote from the 30 for 30 doc..."Just because you're good at something...does that mean you have to do it?"

Now I spend my days struggling along at the somewhere slightly ahead of the 80th percentile at stuff I have no appreciable gifts for. I think I find this much more rewarding, all things considered.
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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by climber511 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:07 am

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
climber511 wrote:Gurus have to come up with something "unique" - some hook - something that makes them special and stand out from the crowd of other gurus. And let's face it - this stuff really isn't brain surgery. No matter how hard we all try to make it so. Everything I absolutely needed to know I learned 50 years ago. Oh sure there's tons of stuff to talk about for that last 10% but the basics will still take you 90% of the way to where you want to go.
True....to a certain degree across the board.

BUT...where I think Shaf and I both end up chasing rabbits is in not looking for secrets or dragon door gimmickery but more, looking at the best practices. What are the thematic pieces that seem to work well over time and why? That's an area where you have to do a huge amount of sifting, be deep into the weeds or..know a whole bunch of specialists in different but related fields of inquiry. It's one of the things I like about this place, 90% of the people worth listening to have gone DEEP with their chosen pursuit,...these sorts of moments are hard to replicate unless you are really putting yourself out there OR..just happen to know some really excellent people.

I feel super lucky in that IRL, I get exposed to a decent range of athletic and nonathletic types and get to observe how masterfully different people evolve their practice. That's one reason I find generalists to be so useless in large part becuase to be a generalist, you really only need to grasp about 80% of the idea....far less in some cases. This is no slam on you...I know you have massive range of intersts, I'm simply saying, by way of examples, the talent it takes to climb 5.10 or race Cat 3, or squat 405 is a world away from the understandin you get in breaking though to be a 5.11 plus climber or a Cat 1/2 or squatting 500 for reps. Again, not a critique of those who are very contented to doing many things well...I think that's healthy and smart it's just that once you peek past the curtain, it's very hard to not want to at least be operating within the same realm of those who have gone a little further. I think in all pursuits there is that break point where you go from having a pretty good understanding of all the pieces to suddenly, you're swimming with sharks and nothing that got you this far will help. It's that Beginner's Mind reset.
I wrote up this nice long reply and the computer must have ate it - oh well.

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by climber511 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:12 am

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
climber511 wrote:Gurus have to come up with something "unique" - some hook - something that makes them special and stand out from the crowd of other gurus. And let's face it - this stuff really isn't brain surgery. No matter how hard we all try to make it so. Everything I absolutely needed to know I learned 50 years ago. Oh sure there's tons of stuff to talk about for that last 10% but the basics will still take you 90% of the way to where you want to go.
True....to a certain degree across the board.

BUT...where I think Shaf and I both end up chasing rabbits is in not looking for secrets or dragon door gimmickery but more, looking at the best practices. What are the thematic pieces that seem to work well over time and why? That's an area where you have to do a huge amount of sifting, be deep into the weeds or..know a whole bunch of specialists in different but related fields of inquiry. It's one of the things I like about this place, 90% of the people worth listening to have gone DEEP with their chosen pursuit,...these sorts of moments are hard to replicate unless you are really putting yourself out there OR..just happen to know some really excellent people.

I feel super lucky in that IRL, I get exposed to a decent range of athletic and nonathletic types and get to observe how masterfully different people evolve their practice. That's one reason I find generalists to be so useless in large part becuase to be a generalist, you really only need to grasp about 80% of the idea....far less in some cases. This is no slam on you...I know you have massive range of intersts, I'm simply saying, by way of examples, the talent it takes to climb 5.10 or race Cat 3, or squat 405 is a world away from the understandin you get in breaking though to be a 5.11 plus climber or a Cat 1/2 or squatting 500 for reps. Again, not a critique of those who are very contented to doing many things well...I think that's healthy and smart it's just that once you peek past the curtain, it's very hard to not want to at least be operating within the same realm of those who have gone a little further. I think in all pursuits there is that break point where you go from having a pretty good understanding of all the pieces to suddenly, you're swimming with sharks and nothing that got you this far will help. It's that Beginner's Mind reset.
My desires to be "good" outweighed my abilities in several regards over all the years in all the things I did and do (that's problem #1) but my desire to "know how" to be "good or great" at something led me to the same searches you are talking about. I've read about everything i can get my hands on - talked to as many "smart" people as I could reach with the money I had and with no internet until I was way too old to use much of it - and I tried hard to sort out the wheat and the chaff - heck I even listen to you all here :). But I did climb 5.12c back when 13b was about as good as it got - so I did OK at the climbing anyway for someone who was a weekend warrior at best and didn't start until my mid 30s. I have come to believe over all these years that you cannot out train your genetics and almost all of us try to excel in a sport for which we did not receive "the gift" where we wanted it - if we got it at all. The thing that I feel has held me back the most is that I have always been an experiment of one living where I do - I think if I had been able to work both under and with others at a higher level than myself I might have gone further. But I was never going to reach the highest level in any of the "strength sports" - I never got the resilience to train at the levels needed as much as any thing else. About the only strength "gift" I might have gotten was in my hands - I think if I had started in it when younger I might have excelled a little bit (starting a age 55 probably held me back some). So when guys like you and Shaf etc talk - I listen - but some of the guys that are self proclaimed gurus - well I think they are full of shit. Most of the guys worth listening to don't market themselves all that much it seems - at least in the places I visit.

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:07 am

Now I spend my days struggling along at the somewhere slightly ahead of the 80th percentile at stuff I have no appreciable gifts for. I think I find this much more rewarding, all things considered.
I view my time in the gym now as the Despicable Quest.

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by SubClaw » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:09 am

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:I was looking for secrets until recently. I was sure that even though I out worked my competition, and still lost, that there was a key that I was missing. Sadly that key turned out to be potential, coupled with a lack of physical resilience.

I was a jack of all trades, sat in the middle, strong enough to be stronger than many, fast enough to be faster than many, and with endurance enough to outlast many, yet those I chose to pit myself against had that spark I lacked.

I'm sure there was a sport out there that I was suited for, it was almost...almost rugby...it was almost wrestling...it was never powerlifting or throwing.
Quit bitching and join the pajama wresslin' community.

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by SubClaw » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:16 am

Regarding FMS, Z-Health, MovNat, Primal Move, Animal Flow, et al... (disclaimer: I like all of them as a form of warm-up/mobility stuff).

What do they offer that you don't get doing a couple sessions of Bikram a week?

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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by TerryB » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:59 am

climber511 wrote:
My desires to be "good" outweighed my abilities in several regards over all the years in all the things I did and do (that's problem #1) but my desire to "know how" to be "good or great" at something led me to the same searches you are talking about. I've read about everything i can get my hands on - talked to as many "smart" people as I could reach with the money I had and with no internet until I was way too old to use much of it - and I tried hard to sort out the wheat and the chaff - heck I even listen to you all here :). But I did climb 5.12c back when 13b was about as good as it got - so I did OK at the climbing anyway for someone who was a weekend warrior at best and didn't start until my mid 30s. I have come to believe over all these years that you cannot out train your genetics and almost all of us try to excel in a sport for which we did not receive "the gift" where we wanted it - if we got it at all. The thing that I feel has held me back the most is that I have always been an experiment of one living where I do - I think if I had been able to work both under and with others at a higher level than myself I might have gone further. But I was never going to reach the highest level in any of the "strength sports" - I never got the resilience to train at the levels needed as much as any thing else. About the only strength "gift" I might have gotten was in my hands - I think if I had started in it when younger I might have excelled a little bit (starting a age 55 probably held me back some). So when guys like you and Shaf etc talk - I listen - but some of the guys that are self proclaimed gurus - well I think they are full of shit. Most of the guys worth listening to don't market themselves all that much it seems - at least in the places I visit.
Nice post.
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Re: FMS/Ido/MovNat....etc.

Post by syaigh » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:58 pm

I'll never be above 80% in anything physical. Just isn't my lot in life. I'm lucky to make it into the 50% and I know damn well that if the sports I compete in weren't niche sports with a small following, I'd be closer to the bottom.

That being said, the thing that irritates me about the titled bullshit is actually a couple of things:
1. Silly bullshit distracts people from doing the very simple work they need to do to improve. For example, I'm working with a gal who can squat 405. She noticed the other day that she has this little hitch at the top where she shifts her weight into her right hip. She immediately thought (because this is the kind of bullshit she's been exposed to) that she needed some sort of mobility wod or corrective work. I told her the truth: its a bad habit and she needs to knock it off. If you're moving in a way you think is unideal, practice moving correctly. A little thought goes a long way.
2. Many trainers/coaches use these as some sort of holy grail for "correcting" movement. Instead of actually correcting the movement. I think a lot of trainers simply don't know what they're looking at or how to make it better. This stuff provides them with a lexicon to shield their incompetence. Let's face it, coaching/training really ought to require some mentoring with people who know what they're doing. It doesn't. And a lot of people in charge of sensitive populations (sensitive to injury, not those with "feelings") are just winging it. If you cant' teach a human to move correctly, you probably need more practice at teaching.
3. It tricks intelligent, well-meaning trainers/coaches into doing silly bullshit that has absolutely no scientific proof that it prevents injuries or improves performance. None whatsoever. Whereas there is a veritable ton of scientific evidence that simply squatting-pressing-pulling can make you better at pretty much anything, and that includes increasing bone density in old women, reversing type II diabetes, weight loss, quality of life, and most certainly, injury prevention and performance.

Its just a goddamned stupid rabbit hole.

BUT, that being said, the only good exercise is the exercise that people will actually do so if someone won't go to the gym but will swing around trees like a monkey, go for it. I don't care. But don't tell me its superior in any way to good old fashioned strength training. because in this day and age, we are all virtual invalids who are 90% sedentary and so I think basic strength training is vastly more effective and safe for the majority of the population.
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