80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

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Comanch09
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80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Comanch09 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:31 pm

So, I am 28 and have been taking a break from lifting weights for a few years now. However, I really feel I need to get back in shape again.

Basically, I hope to do about a mile run twice a week and then lift weights.

I saw Pavel had an article a few years ago about the 80/20 program.

Link: http://fourhourworkweek.com/2008/12/18/ ... our-lifts/

I wanted to attempt to implement this program. Basically, I would do this (and replace deadlifts with pull ups, as I have no where to do deadlifts [I don't, just leave it at that]):

Saturday: Heavy Squats
Sunday: Heavy BenchPress
Monday: Pull Ups (do weighted pull ups) heavy, 1 mile run
Tuesday: off
Wednesday: light squats, light bench press
Thursday: 1 mile Run
Friday: off

Would this be a good way of doing this, or would there be a better way? I would think it would be better to have two days off in a row, but hard to do that while fitting in jogging 1 mile.

Also, the article says to start our modestly in weight, then add 10 pounds once you can do 5x5, and then add 5 pounds once you can do 5x5 again. Ok? Where does one go after hitting the 5x5 with the 5 pounds? The article just doesn't make sense. How do you progress after the 5 pounds being added?

Anyways, I would appreciate any input. Also, if people have a better recommendation for a work out, that is fine too.

Ultimately, I am not interested in competing in powerlifting or anything like that. Not really looking to get giant either. I just want to get back into shape, gain some muscle (again, not tons), and get into some shape with running twice a week. Also, want to stick with bench press, squats, and pull ups. Can't do deadlifts where I lift (long story, just can't).

Anyways, thanks for any advice or info.

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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:51 am

Reading the article, you'd just stay conservative with your perceived efforts and move up 10# on each lift when the 5x5 was solid. Simple auto regulated linear progression.

Shaf's ladders are probably a better way to get back into the lifting if you haven't done it in a while. Just do ladders of 1/2/3 of the big 3 lifts, stopping each ladder with a rep or 2 in the bank. When you get 3 ladders of 1/2/3 on a lift without it being balls-out, slap on 10# and go at it again. If you're more of a rep guy, use 2/4/6 rep ladders instead of 1/2/3.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Comanch09 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:36 am

"Reading the article, you'd just stay conservative with your perceived efforts and move up 10# on each lift when the 5x5 was solid. Simple auto regulated linear progression."

I guess I'm confused though, what happens after the 5 pound raise? Do you then raise up another 5 pounds once your on 5x5? Do you ever drop off? PTTP has you drop off the weight after a few days (after cycle ends).

It's just confusing. Or do you just keep going up and up after every 5x5 is met? When do you know the system is no longer good?

It's claims you can gain 110lbs after 1 year, so I guess it's just unclear to me is all.

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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Sangoma » Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:37 am

You only add 10 pounds if you manage 5 x 5 on the first day, when you start the program. After that it's 5 pounds.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by SubClaw » Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:03 am

Comanch09 wrote:I guess I'm confused though, what happens after the 5 pound raise?
You are stronger than before.
Do you then raise up another 5 pounds once your on 5x5?
Yes, that's pretty clear.
Do you ever drop off?
Did the article mention a "drop off" anywhere? NO. That's pretty clear.
PTTP has you drop off the weight after a few days (after cycle ends).
PTTP is not Faleev's 5x5. That's pretty clear. And, this may come as a surprise too, but... Faleev's 5x5 is not RoP either!
It's just confusing.


No, it's not (unless you have an IQ lower than Proto). Just follow the fucking instructions. They are crystal clear.
Or do you just keep going up and up after every 5x5 is met?


Yes. Again, that's pretty clear.
When do you know the system is no longer good?
When you can't progress anymore? Big surprise here, huh?
It's claims you can gain 110lbs after 1 year, so I guess it's just unclear to me is all.
Three workouts a week, fifty two weeks a year... Yes, it's certainly possible.

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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:22 am

Sangoma wrote:You only add 10 pounds if you manage 5 x 5 on the first day, when you start the program. After that it's 5 pounds.
Nope. Pavel says to slap on a pair of nickels. Thats 2 x 5# plates, equal to 10#.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Sangoma » Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:49 pm

You are right, it's two 5 lbs plates.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:08 am

are you a good body type for those lifts? Then bang away...the tall, the long limbed, the short limbed, and the weird bodied need to understand they will run out of room here fairly quick.

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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by DikTracy6000 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:50 am

Comanch09 wrote:"Reading the article, you'd just stay conservative with your perceived efforts and move up 10# on each lift when the 5x5 was solid. Simple auto regulated linear progression."

I guess I'm confused though, what happens after the 5 pound raise? Do you then raise up another 5 pounds once your on 5x5? Do you ever drop off? PTTP has you drop off the weight after a few days (after cycle ends).

It's just confusing. Or do you just keep going up and up after every 5x5 is met? When do you know the system is no longer good?

It's claims you can gain 110lbs after 1 year, so I guess it's just unclear to me is all.
Looking forward to your log and progress using this format. The PL guy who used to write fitness articles for the Balt. Sun ran an experiment with some very out of shape men and women where he had them all do only the 3 power lifts and walk three times a week. Or maybe they walked 5 times a week. All lost a good amount of weight and vastly improved their fitness levels. Can't recall his name at the moment, but he had some ties to Pavel IIRC.

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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:47 pm

Marty Gallagher...and you need to take everything he writes with a grain of salt...it's much better reading when you know he's prone to exaggeration

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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Sangoma » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:09 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:are you a good body type for those lifts? Then bang away...the tall, the long limbed, the short limbed, and the weird bodied need to understand they will run out of room here fairly quick.
Faleev's original program is more flexible. According to him you start with 5 sets of 8 reps. When you get stuck with this scheme you switch to 5 sets of 7 reps and so on, until you get to 5 x 5. When you plateau with that you switch to cycles.

He also advocates isometrics and stretching.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:43 pm

Word to the wise.... Much as I dislike him, Chad W Smith's juggernaut programming works similarly and is pretty foolproof for moody intermediates.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:37 pm

Chaddington Bear Tap Takeover!

Which is this? Out of his Jugg 2.0 or somewhere on Jugg.com?

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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:21 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Chaddington Bear Tap Takeover!

Which is this? Out of his Jugg 2.0 or somewhere on Jugg.com?

Not sure if it's 2.0 or other..One of the guys at the gym ran it. he showed me the spreadsheet, is was gobs of 8s then 5's then triples then waved back up to 10's and back down.

The kid is 6'1, 215ish, he did the shit as Rx'd. When he started hew was the standard average USAPL kid with the standard USAPL, 350 squat, 231 bench, 470 DL....Ran the program for 20 some weeks while cutting (drug free).

He finished at 195ish, with a 450 squat, 275 bench (oh well) , 240 log push press and a legit 600 DL. I didn't want to like it but the boy did fuckin work. So..not to say it's magiks but it was sensible and he missed about no workouts, hit all the projected numbers and ran a calorie deficit on non training days. The kid is none percent gifted physically.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:48 pm

Sounds like Juggy 2.0. I gots it if needed.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by powerlifter54 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:31 am

Some programs are better than others, but doing some of a Program and than some of another is a bad plan.

That may not be optimal for every situation but if it works for you just stick with it for a while.

i would advise adding the pullups in on Thursday and maybe some easy sprints or sled drags in before using the mile as a warmdown.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:26 am

powerlifter54 wrote:Some programs are better than others, but doing some of a Program and than some of another is a bad plan.

That may not be optimal for every situation but if it works for you just stick with it for a while.

i would advise adding the pullups in on Thursday and maybe some easy sprints or sled drags in before using the mile as a warmdown.

Sooth.

Even gen pop ebook progressions have some internal consistency.

Hell...once my training partners and I have set on a path we don't fuck with the basic moving parts in the middle of it...unless it's to take something out.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by SubClaw » Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:37 am

Alfred_E._Neuman wrote:Sounds like Juggy 2.0. I gots it if needed.
Can you upload it 'you-know-where'?

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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Testiclaw » Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:06 pm

For what it's worth, I'm considering running the vanilla JUGG2.0 plan for a few of my lifters.

I'm making a spreadsheet that calculates everything based on reps and what increments you choose for each lift.

Jesus Christ, there's a lot of little equations and junk.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:08 pm

Testiclaw wrote:For what it's worth, I'm considering running the vanilla JUGG2.0 plan for a few of my lifters.

I'm making a spreadsheet that calculates everything based on reps and what increments you choose for each lift.

Jesus Christ, there's a lot of little equations and junk.

Other than the twink with the pornstache and the great squat are the rest of their lifts pretty hohum? If so, it seems like it works well. Old School, very boring, very basic helps a lot of peeps break through that intermediate range.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Testiclaw » Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:13 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Testiclaw wrote:For what it's worth, I'm considering running the vanilla JUGG2.0 plan for a few of my lifters.

I'm making a spreadsheet that calculates everything based on reps and what increments you choose for each lift.

Jesus Christ, there's a lot of little equations and junk.

Other than the twink with the pornstache and the great squat are the rest of their lifts pretty hohum? If so, it seems like it works well. Old School, very boring, very basic helps a lot of peeps break through that intermediate range.
Ha!

I get tagged in their videos, but those aren't my lifters, just friends.

I have a 400lb squatter, a few in the low/mid 300's, a 500lb puller, and a few in the mid 4's, a few breaking into the 3's in the bench.

A chick who pulled 330x2 from a three inch deficit, a 148lb chick who back squatted 275 and front squatted 253.

So a fairly good mix of decent lifters, ranging from 21 to 39.

It should actually be a worthwhile test.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:25 pm

That's a good group for that template.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Testiclaw » Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:42 pm

I'm hopeful.

The kicker is that they do the Crossfit WOD's on the days between strength class. And it's fucking impossible to communicate with the CF planners.

If you can call them planners, at all.
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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:15 am

Nevermind. ...do the humane thing....

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Re: 80/20 by Pavel. Good plan? How to progress?

Post by Testiclaw » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:23 am

So I had them finish a 9-week wave last week, hitting singles on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, in the back squat, the bench, and then the overhead and deadlift together.

Monday, the CF people programmed the CF Total. So they had three max attempts in the back squat, the overhead press, and the deadlift.

They maxed on seven movements, in eight days. Two got hurt.

It was pretty cool.
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