Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

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Mike Caviston
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by Mike Caviston » Wed May 11, 2016 2:40 am

Holland Oates wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Always a pleasure, Mike Caviston, to see you post here. Is there anyplace else online you post your thoughts and observations on training?
+1. If you aren't currently, I think interest would be extremely high.
I hate to jump on the ass kissing train but I concur.
Thank you all. I read here pretty regularly but never seem to find the time or energy to get into an extended exchange. Kind of ironic since the topic of endurance interests me greatly. So, if you catch me at the right time with the right discussion, who knows.

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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed May 11, 2016 3:08 am

Always a pleasure to see Mr. Caviston take interest, one of the most respected names in real training that gets thrashed about here.
dead man walking wrote:
Blaidd Drwg wrote:Patterns emerge.
lydiard
Lydiard is totally a pioneer but he wasn't the only person to proffer this approach. Also interesting, all three of those examples refer to different endurance sports, each with over a century of knowledge and tradition that has swung wildly from one extreme to the other....but best practices remain, scientifically viable and demonstrably practical.

I wonder is how would it be different if we had a calendar based on an 11 day week...what would have developed then?
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by aussie luke » Wed May 11, 2016 6:27 am

Mike Caviston wrote:
Holland Oates wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Always a pleasure, Mike Caviston, to see you post here. Is there anyplace else online you post your thoughts and observations on training?
+1. If you aren't currently, I think interest would be extremely high.
I hate to jump on the ass kissing train but I concur.
Thank you all. I read here pretty regularly but never seem to find the time or energy to get into an extended exchange. Kind of ironic since the topic of endurance interests me greatly. So, if you catch me at the right time with the right discussion, who knows.
+2

Would definitely like to get your knowledges on erg rowing for average folks with no plans of competing, and combining with other training.

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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by dead man walking » Wed May 11, 2016 12:32 pm

aussie luke wrote:Would definitely like to get your knowledges on erg rowing for average folks with no plans of competing, and combining with other training.
google his name and you can find a collection of some of his posts from the old concept 2 forum.
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed May 11, 2016 1:52 pm

Mike could actually write a book on the training of spec ops types now, and it wouldn't be flat out wishful thinking or some crazy warrior yogi poet's version of what went down.

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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by Koko, Beware » Wed May 11, 2016 2:32 pm

Another great thread. I'd been curious to hear from folks about what sort of controls go into gen pop strength training when the type of longer duration cardiovascular work discussed in here becomes thing One. BD? Syaigh? (I need to find that article you had on base again.)
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Wed May 11, 2016 3:14 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Mike could actually write a book on the training of spec ops types now, and it wouldn't be flat out wishful thinking or some crazy warrior yogi poet's version of what went down.
I cringed in my car yesterday as Chris Sommer was bragging about SEAL Team 6 guys involved in his gymnastics bodies program.
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by dead man walking » Wed May 11, 2016 4:23 pm

longish two-part article about a research pysiologist trying to find the path to a sub-2-hour marathon.

if nothing else, there's an interesting short video comparing the strides and biomechanics of a distance runner and a sprinter

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/16/sport ... ekele.html
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed May 11, 2016 5:00 pm

Koko, Beware wrote:Another great thread. I'd been curious to hear from folks about what sort of controls go into gen pop strength training when the type of longer duration cardiovascular work discussed in here becomes thing One. BD? Syaigh? (I need to find that article you had on base again.)
My exp. applies to the bike and running only. (for performance...not health/longevity) I suspect other modes have confounding factors or opportunities that those two do not. After my latest masters guy found it difficult to balance I'm rethinking my stance. I'm not there yet, I have much to learn...what I did when I was younger and what my coach had me do as it turns out lacked throttle control.

For a long while I worked form the stance that just as frequent low intensity work should be as often as you could fit it, I took the PTTP approach (hi freq, mod/low intensity) to strength training in these early blocks. After watching this approach (fail )result in fuck all enough times I started to think of what bang for the buck could I get with a real basic H/L/M liftign split insisted of the so called ez strongification I remembered, these people are all beginning lifters and we should treat them as such.

So if an early to mid base block for cycling looks like this.

1. Long slow running. 70-80% of all training.
2. Lactate threshold training. 90% of MaxHR with breaks of 60-90 seconds.
3. Intervals. (fartlek, incomplete recovery)
4. Speed sessions. Competition distance is broken in several parts and each is run at higher speed. Breaks at least as long as the time spent running or longer, to prevent lactate accumulation.

In an early block we would do this instead (for a while)

1. Long slow running. 70-80% of all training.
2. Lactate threshold training. 90% of MaxHR with breaks of 60-90 seconds.
3. 1 day of up to 3 sets of 5-10, ceiling RPE of 9.5, You hit 10 once you're done for day
4. 1 day of sets of 2-3, complete recovery. Autoregged...go until bar slows, hit one max rep downset

We mitigate the soreness with correct exercise selection. The big ones are Squat/ box for cyclists, TBDL for tri/runner/. For the max reps work we really use a hard form RPE. LSD is permitted/encouraged post session but with wattage/heart rate limit.

One of my guys say his average in race wattage increase by only 20-30 watts and much of that was probably efficiency on the bike. The real benefit was postural, he was able to put out solid passing and late race accelerations.

EDIT:

If it isn't clear from the above, let me be more explicit, the point of adding compound lifting of biggish weights to this equation is not to increase the 1rm capability or even the sustained squatting/pulling output capability. The point is to get them to learn how to deliver more power through the core and hips and maintain powerful positions and postures during the whole of the event. The most power focused endurance event in all of cycling is probably the 200m match sprint. Even in that event leg (squat) strength probably accounts for the first 5 pedal strokes and then it becomes rapidly less important.

fast after 50 has a totally different take,I would totally defer to Friel on most things but I have never seen his approach work or not work so maybe it's good enough? I think it's not optimal but perfect is the enemy of good as they say....
Last edited by Blaidd Drwg on Wed May 11, 2016 5:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by Koko, Beware » Wed May 11, 2016 5:12 pm

Awesome, thank you. This is very helpful.
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed May 11, 2016 8:12 pm

Why cringe? Chris Sommer is an example of an exemplary coach, I'm sure he taught them appropriate movements for their abilities...there are actually two or three guys on the gymnastics bodies forum who claim that GST helped them prepare and pass BUDS.

Spec Ops guys seem to do a huge variety of things to maintain readiness...Crossfit remains popular among them too.

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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by syaigh » Wed May 11, 2016 9:16 pm

Koko, Beware wrote:Another great thread. I'd been curious to hear from folks about what sort of controls go into gen pop strength training when the type of longer duration cardiovascular work discussed in here becomes thing One. BD? Syaigh? (I need to find that article you had on base again.)
This was all BD:
Base vs. “General Fitness”

Preamble.

This article is not intended as an exhaustive primer on how to train nor is it meant to be an indictment of any one fitness system (calm down crossfitters/P90x’ers et al). It is really intended to clear up a significant misconception in beginner sports programming and is dedicated to Jessica Roper, the fittest/healthiest person I know who has a life training history that includes gymnastics, weightlifting, bicycle racing, crossfit and most recently Zumba. Don’t laugh, she squats better that many of you.



Go Deep

When we teach our seminars, a theme running through a majority of our lectures is the concept of Base. A term completely understood in the endurance community, (as in Base Miles) Base is a concept that seems to have fallen out of vogue in the rest of the strength and conditioning community. This is unfortunate because understanding and building your Base is one of the most important central principals in a person’s athletic development. Base may be even more important to non-athletes.

Many commercial training systems, boot camps, fitness classes etc., build their sales pitch on a notion of getting a person “ready for anything.” Some even use the term GPP or “general physical preparedness.” At best, this misconstrues the idea of GPP, at worst it is a scam … nearly no one need be in a constant state of readiness to train harder. Developing fitness is a process that relies on ebb and flow of condition; you develop one quality at the expense of another, gradually raising the overall level of ability. Developing higher levels of “fitness” is clearly the goal but most people lack a foundation of ability to work from, period. In short, your trainees, regardless of age of training history, need to develop Base before they can think of being “ready for anything.”

index



So what it Base? First, let’s say what it’s not.

Currently popular fitness memes represent our cultural infatuation with the notion of “well roundedness.” This quality, admirable in concept, is not GPP nor is it Base. GPP, as described by Dr.Yessis,

(GPP) consists primarily of general preparatory and some specialized conditioning exercises to work all the major muscles and joints. This preparation prepares the athlete for the more intense training such as explosive plyometrics. This period is also used for rehabilitation of injured muscles and joints, strengthening or bringing up to par the lagging muscles and improvement of technique.

Sounds scientific. Maybe that means it’s important? Nah … not really. GPP is just meant to describe a state where a trained athlete is ready for more intensive training. This begs the question, when considering exercise program choices for yourself or your clients: are you (or they) trained athletes ready to enter an extended accumulation block of focused training? Many (most?) people do not have enough of a base of strength and aerobic fitness to even engage in 20-30 minutes of vigorous daily exercise, let alone a base of strength or aerobic endurance to engage in vigorous sports and activities that they might otherwise want to. And yet, people do engage in these sports and activities and orthopedic surgeons enjoy full employment, buy boats and send their kids to private schools because of it.

Maybe you don’t work with a population that encounters significant or consistent sports injuries. Maybe your clients are fit enough to do what they need and are concerned with performance. Perfect. Let’s discuss why what many people consider “well rounded fitness” is really nothing more than a topical approach to the concept, and if you really want to develop athleticism in a person, most people will do well to go deep, before they go wide.


The core abilities of athleticism are of the same things that most average trainees need in their everyday lives. These qualities are simple to understand. People need the ability to express:

· Full body coordination

· Strength

· Power

· Endurance

· Flexibility

Here’s the rub about developing a base of strength/endurance/flexibility/power, you cannot fully develop these qualities in random haphazard fashion. It takes years – not months, not weeks – years to fully develop a foundation in the basics of athleticism because most if not all these adaptations are based in long term physical changes to the body like increased capillary networks, greater density and cross section of muscle, increased bone density, lowered resting heart rate, higher peak heart rate and an efficient metabolic system for processing fatty acids and glycogen. These are just the mechanical changes. The most profound and long lasting training effects from focused practice are neurological. Repeated focused practice builds new neurological connections; for lack of a better analogy, these connections are a sophisticated communication network between the brain and the body’s musculature. These “network adaptations” are near permanent changes to the body’s wiring. The beauty of these neurological connections is that once established (learned) they are slow to unlearn: Examples include:

1. Increased muscle fiber recruitment — once you’ve “learned” to fire muscles strongly, you remain relatively strong.
2. Increased coordination allows for long terms skill retention — athletic movement is no different from learning to play the piano — you may get rusty, but the base is there to pick it back up.
3. Increased tone and proprioception in the postural muscles — once learned, the ability to hold the trunk and core stable in vigorous movements is easily retained.

This distinction in neurological development from extended base training is important because, as anyone who has taken a layoff from physical activity knows, peak fitness is fleeting but basic physical skills are very persistent and allow a fairly detrained individual (say a former football player or track athlete) to return to a fairly decent level of athletic ability compared to a person without an extended training background. Once you’ve been strong, you “know” what it feels like. Once you have developed endurance, you understand how to pace yourself. Once you have truly ingrained the skill of a movement, it is like riding a bike, you never really forget. But lasting adaptations take time to develop.

In cycling, the truism is Miles on the Bike is Money in the Bank, but most commercially available fitness memes are not built on this. Like most things in our culture, fast results and innovation is revered, high accomplishment equals credibility but we are rarely given the whole story. This is why, when considering the training programs of accomplished athletes, or the newest training template/eBook, ask yourself, “if this is what this athlete is doing now, what were they doing 10 years ago?” Nine out of ten times it is going to be a similar answer for similar ranges of athletes. Endurance athletes were putting in miles, (lots of them) at moderate tempos. Strength athletes were lifting and practicing their sport skills; ball athletes were scrimmaging, playing pick-up games and working on ball handling skills. All these accomplished athletes were building up core competencies in the Basic abilities they needed to do a sport. Just like investing, once you’ve built some working capital, it becomes very easy to take that accrued potential and turn it to something else.

Now it’s true that at higher levels of athleticism, Training adaptations are highly specific. This means that training for strength will optimally improve strength while training for endurance will optimally improve endurance. The degree of “transferability” will vary from one activity to another. In highly fit individuals, adaptations require highly specific training to make measurable progress. For most of the rest of us, specificity of training is less important than the depth of improvement (the amount invested) in a given discipline.

So … What is Your Base?

So you’re like most Americans. You didn’t save enough when you were young. You’re not an athlete, you’re a generalist, you just want to be “fit enough” to play the sports you want, enjoy some athleticism and camaraderie and not get hurt. What now?

This is the beauty and the curse of being a beginner. If you haven’t built up your base, you need to put the bulk of your time (let’s be explicit and say 80% of your training volume) into really developing abilities that take the longest to build: Strength and Endurance. For strength, it is simple: squat, press, pull and carry heavy weights. For conditioning it means move your body for extended periods, row cycle, run, walk, hike. For reasons that are outside the scope of this piece, the ability to go hard for short periods of time (an ability neatly termed strength endurance) can be developed to fairly high levels in very short periods of time.

So the basics of Base training sound like the goal of any commercial training programs. How is base training different from any other canned approach like crossfit? The answer is Time. Dedicated practice in the basic strength lifts will take a year or better for many people to surpass even novice levels of strength. The adaptations derived from running or low steady distance training are not reached in 6 months or even a year, it is a multi-year process. This is not to say that general fitness activities, workouts of couplets and triplets of bodyweight exercises, or high intensity cardio don’t have a place or a value. The point is that the value of these activities can’t really be realized until there is a substantial base of strength and endurance in place. This means, that to get where most people want to go, they need to start with a narrow focus and focus on moving well beyond novice levels of ability to provoke long term mechanical and neuromuscular adaption. In this way developing Base is not a program, it’s a lifelong pursuit.

In short, base can be seen as the sum total of your lifetime practice. If your total is low, the best way to raise it is to focus specifically on building it up. Get much stronger in a few movements, building an aerobic Base by significantly extending range of distance, practicing full body skilled movement: yoga, judo, tennis, baseball, even ping pong. This approach will get you further, faster than dabbling in many things at once. With a sound base, your options for exercise, play and competition increase exponentially without the accompanying risk of injury or burnout. Take your time and focus. You only have one body and a lifetime of possibility.

To understand one thing well is better than understanding many things by halves – Goethe


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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by SubClaw » Wed May 11, 2016 9:25 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Spec Ops guys seem to do a huge variety of things to maintain readiness...Crossfit remains popular among them too.
Which puzzles me, because of the injury attrition rate.

I mean, I understand the allure of the XFit approach for the masses, it al seems so macho and so tough, but real operators shouldn't train like that.

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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by syaigh » Wed May 11, 2016 9:31 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Spec Ops guys seem to do a huge variety of things to maintain readiness...Crossfit remains popular among them too.
Which puzzles me, because of the injury attrition rate.

I mean, I understand the allure of the XFit approach for the masses, it al seems so macho and so tough, but real operators shouldn't train like that.
The NSCA started their whole "Tactical training" thing to be an organized version of CF. One of the local bases to me, with special operators, implented it and then abruptly pulled the plug because even when organized, nonstop high intensity exercise produces far too many injuries. I had some experience fixing two of these guys. It was a combo of the high intensity and terrible movement coaching but they were in pretty bad shape. Hip flexors and shoulders were all fucked up. Didn't take a lot, just good form and focus on the strength lifts, do conditioning with more general movements (sandbags, prowler, etc.), and pare down the tool box a whole lot. And honestly, just didn't see where the olympic lifts would fit into this sort of thing at all.
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by syaigh » Wed May 11, 2016 10:04 pm

But then again, a friend of mine who was an officer in an army unit in Iraq saud the baddest motherfucker in his squad pretty much just drank whiskey and punched metal doors.
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by JohnDoe » Wed May 11, 2016 10:07 pm

Samesies!

Rowing training fits the patterns. Four basic training bands/zones/workouts: long steady state @ <2.0mMol lactate/just above conversational pace/HR 155-165 (athlete dependent); long intervals (1500-3k or 5-12'); short intervals (500-1k or 1:30-4'); speed work above race pace. There's some sorting with coaches adding a few extra steady state zones or splitting hairs on the speed work, but it's a pretty typical template. IME you don't need six training zones if you're training once a day at anything less than the elite level, but I'm happy to be wrong. Mike's rowing plan is pretty unique in it's approach, though I'm always annoyed at how few 'elite' coaches want to explore or discuss it. His base steady state is different (and awesome); his hour straight Level 3 workouts are different; his emphasis on speed work year round is different. And by different, I mean outside the norm. Lots of exceptional teams don't train speed at all in the fall season, keeping their kids under 22 strokes per minute. I've used his plan to great success in certain situations and, more importantly, certain team/school/club cultures.

Lifting for rowing is bonkers. I've seen plans that call for lots of single-limb work in the fall to build back symmetry after a year of sweep rowing; I've seen standard Bompa plans for hypertrophy on to max strength and then circuits in the spring with 'weight training' on the water (using bungees or buckets to slow the boat down); I've seen CrossFit; I've seen a refusal to lift ("Ever see a thoroughbred in a weight room?" said one multiple national and international champion coach); I've seen bizarro circuits when I visited a practice at a boathouse with more Olympians and national champions than you can shake a stick at. Circuits are certainly the most common, more because of logistics of a typically large roster sport than anything. Plus the 'push through the pain' mentality. And then there's some dude on YouTube frantically uploading videos of crawling and rocking and kettlebelling and windmilling and mobilitying and and and, but, given the weirdness of lifting in the sport, I can't blame him for trying to find a niche.

It is strange, especially since international and Olympic level rowers 'only' need a 2xBW squat, deadlift, and 130% of BW for a bench pull (based on what the guys can do). Pretty low numbers, but tough to hit with all the mileage. No one wants to dial it back and get strong, then maintain and go back to base building. It's odd, since the strength will come so much faster than anything else.

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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed May 11, 2016 10:18 pm

JohnDoe wrote: His base steady state is different (and awesome); his hour straight Level 3 workouts are different; his emphasis on speed work year round is different. And by different, I mean outside the norm. Lots of exceptional teams don't train speed at all in the fall season, keeping their kids under 22 strokes per minute. I've used his plan to great success in certain situations and, more importantly, certain team/school/club cultures.
.

For sure this used to be atypical in cycling as well. As cycling has become more of a year round sport, it's gravitated away from the notion of an off season/base/build... and more to including speed/LT work/straight endurance in a template year round but in differing proportions. This is something Bompa talked about but it took some disciplines longer to adopt than others.
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu May 12, 2016 12:59 am

Ironically, thoroughbreds do pool work, treadmill work, get estim and compression therapies, as well as a whole bunch of other stuff, but thoroughbred training in the U.S. is behind that of Australia and Japan...both of whom build more durable equine athletes...there is a lot of diuretic use that could be reduced with intelligent warm ups, instead of just turning loose

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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by JohnDoe » Thu May 12, 2016 2:12 am

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Ironically, thoroughbreds do pool work, treadmill work, get estim and compression therapies, as well as a whole bunch of other stuff, but thoroughbred training in the U.S. is behind that of Australia and Japan...both of whom build more durable equine athletes...there is a lot of diuretic use that could be reduced with intelligent warm ups, instead of just turning loose
Huh. There goes that pithy remark. Next thing I know someone'll tell me that lions are foam rolling before they hunt and I'll have to get rid of that one too.

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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu May 12, 2016 2:12 am

What are the diuretics for?
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by aussie luke » Thu May 12, 2016 6:18 am

JohnDoe wrote:Samesies!

Rowing training fits the patterns. Four basic training bands/zones/workouts: long steady state @ <2.0mMol lactate/just above conversational pace/HR 155-165 (athlete dependent); long intervals (1500-3k or 5-12'); short intervals (500-1k or 1:30-4'); speed work above race pace. There's some sorting with coaches adding a few extra steady state zones or splitting hairs on the speed work, but it's a pretty typical template. IME you don't need six training zones if you're training once a day at anything less than the elite level, but I'm happy to be wrong. Mike's rowing plan is pretty unique in it's approach, though I'm always annoyed at how few 'elite' coaches want to explore or discuss it. His base steady state is different (and awesome); his hour straight Level 3 workouts are different; his emphasis on speed work year round is different. And by different, I mean outside the norm. Lots of exceptional teams don't train speed at all in the fall season, keeping their kids under 22 strokes per minute. I've used his plan to great success in certain situations and, more importantly, certain team/school/club cultures.

Lifting for rowing is bonkers. I've seen plans that call for lots of single-limb work in the fall to build back symmetry after a year of sweep rowing; I've seen standard Bompa plans for hypertrophy on to max strength and then circuits in the spring with 'weight training' on the water (using bungees or buckets to slow the boat down); I've seen CrossFit; I've seen a refusal to lift ("Ever see a thoroughbred in a weight room?" said one multiple national and international champion coach); I've seen bizarro circuits when I visited a practice at a boathouse with more Olympians and national champions than you can shake a stick at. Circuits are certainly the most common, more because of logistics of a typically large roster sport than anything. Plus the 'push through the pain' mentality. And then there's some dude on YouTube frantically uploading videos of crawling and rocking and kettlebelling and windmilling and mobilitying and and and, but, given the weirdness of lifting in the sport, I can't blame him for trying to find a niche.

It is strange, especially since international and Olympic level rowers 'only' need a 2xBW squat, deadlift, and 130% of BW for a bench pull (based on what the guys can do). Pretty low numbers, but tough to hit with all the mileage. No one wants to dial it back and get strong, then maintain and go back to base building. It's odd, since the strength will come so much faster than anything else.
As a non-competitor but rowing for training/cardio/fat loss only, I have settled on easy 10,000m at 20SPM, hard 30r20s and 8 x 500m as my three favourite and as far as I can tell, only really necessary sessions - plan is to get one of each a week, ideally two 30r20 sessions, on top of running and a bit of kettleballing. I could probably do with a longer session but I don't think I could sit on the erg for 60 minutes. I would rather run an hour instead.

As for lifting for rowing, I started playing with barbell power clean and push presses a few weeks ago and my erg pace instantly started improving. But I keep fucking my shoulder up so I can't really continue with that little experiment so sticking with kettleballs for now. Seemed to me that an all-over strength and power lift like that would be more use for rowing than most of the other shit banded around.

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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by dead man walking » Thu May 12, 2016 12:40 pm

steve magness, running coach, on the limits of relying on training zones. it's long. also discusses why vo2 max is overrated.

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2012/06 ... hy-it.html

by the way, he's got a nice anti-x-fit rant on his site. broke up with a girl who was too fond of the kool aid.
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by dead man walking » Thu May 12, 2016 12:54 pm

aussie luke,

here's an erg based power workout. the author often writes about strength training for rowing--he may have worked with canadian nat'l team. the programs of his i've seen are pretty typical, squat, dead, row, etc.

https://peakcentre.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... rformance/

two 30r20 workouts a week sounds brutal, assuming you achieve max hr toward the end of the session. have you considered medium intervals (1,500-2500 mtr) at 5k pace? that's similar to caviston's level 2 session, typically referred to as at intervals in rowing parlance?
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Grandpa's Spells
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Thu May 12, 2016 2:02 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Why cringe? Chris Sommer is an example of an exemplary coach, I'm sure he taught them appropriate movements for their abilities...there are actually two or three guys on the gymnastics bodies forum who claim that GST helped them prepare and pass BUDS.
This would have been super-helpful to mention on the podcast. Instead, he talked about about the guy who went to BUD/S weighing 140, a came back a couple years later a ripped 230, so Sommer put him in charge of nutrition for his program, which is he's clear that PEDs are counterproductive for. Because that makes sense.

In retrospect, part of my aggravation was he tends to make the same point many times at considerable length, and the podcast isn't edited at all, and the interviewer didn't guide the conversation, so I wasted a lot of time listening to get three takeaways that would fit in this post.
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Re: Long Duration Cardiac Output training.

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu May 12, 2016 3:28 pm

Ferris remains a terrible interviewer. His weird little agendas damage the flow

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