No such thing at overtraining....

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Blaidd Drwg
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No such thing at overtraining....

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:28 pm

These guys are killin. me...I can't say I can find much fault or critique of anything the Juggies have put out lately.

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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:30 pm

"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill

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Kazuya Mishima
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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:40 pm

Is this the self-aware bro-scientist rebuttal to the CT Fletcher crowd? If so, I'd rather listen to 10 hours of CT's BBC from the prison yard bombast than 15 seconds of this "my common sense tells me" fueled cautionary snooze fest.

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WildGorillaMan
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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by WildGorillaMan » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:14 pm

There's no such thing at overtraining, only underdosing.
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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by TomFurman » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:22 pm

That quote was used by the Barbarian Brothers. I guess these guys dug through old Muscle Power Magazines or something.
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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by JohnDoe » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:35 pm

Clearly we should solicit this fella's opinion.
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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:54 pm

It's pretty clear not a single one of you douchenozzles listened to either video.
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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by Boris » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:25 am

First video was just common sense and way too long for the content. In the late 80s, I bought into the idea that there was no overtraining, just undereating, but I quickly realized that it was a bunch of bullshit. There is a tipping point at which no diet will be enough.

Second video - pretty good. Also very basic for people who understand tapers, but worth reviewing. I don't know how many times I end up gnashing my teeth when I hear about people introducing new recovery modalities in the weeks leading up to a competition....

Is it just me, or does anyone else get a little squirmy and imagine Joe Weider when you hear people introduce 'principles' when talking about the weightz?... 8-[

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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:50 am

Boris wrote:First video was just common sense and way too long for the content.
Well....he is a PHD, that's what they do.

To Be Fair tho..I don't think it's common sense at all. The myth itself is kinda easily debunked but the other areas such as the ridiculous notion that a fucking powerlifter could conceivably experience true over-training is just ludicrous.

The point I bring up when people talk about overtraining is that 99% of all rec.athlete.etc aren't in good enough condition to bring it on...sorry kids, unless you're killing it on double workouts a day in multiple modalities, you're just unplanned over reaching at best. Even among wrestlers, who are probably the best conditioned athletes in sport, true overtraining is very rare..and unplanned overreach is remedied pretty damn quick when you take your foot off the throttle.

But once again, this is an area where I end up an outlier because to me the word overtraining has a specific meaning...and it's one not readily understood
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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by Sangoma » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:55 am

I avoid overtraining by eating like a pig and training once a week.
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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by Boris » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:03 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Boris wrote:First video was just common sense and way too long for the content.
Well....he is a PHD, that's what they do.

To Be Fair tho..I don't think it's common sense at all. The myth itself is kinda easily debunked but the other areas such as the ridiculous notion that a fucking powerlifter could conceivably experience true over-training is just ludicrous.

The point I bring up when people talk about overtraining is that 99% of all rec.athlete.etc aren't in good enough condition to bring it on...sorry kids, unless you're killing it on double workouts a day in multiple modalities, you're just unplanned over reaching at best. Even among wrestlers, who are probably the best conditioned athletes in sport, true overtraining is very rare..and unplanned overreach is remedied pretty damn quick when you take your foot off the throttle.

But once again, this is an area where I end up an outlier because to me the word overtraining has a specific meaning...and it's one not readily understood
You're probably right.

In the swimming world, no one wants to take their foot off the throttle... ever. Overtraining is rare, but not really rare, and unplanned overreach is almost the norm.

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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by climber511 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:31 pm

True Over Training has a lot to do with your definition I guess. To me its when you have pretty much fubared most of your body's systems. At this point you're usually sick with something and its gonna take a month or two anyway to truly get back to normal. Even overreaching comes in shades of light gray to "almost" black (black being actually overtrained). For me it was was the 7 - 12 hour work days along with training for a triathlon that buried me the worst back when that was my thing. For me at least it was the endurance work that got me more so than the lifting. Of course it might have helped if I had been a little (lot) smarter about my training at that point. I think lots of people end up over reaching when their job and life get stressful as much as when workouts do.

Most people are probably chronically under recovered - as a group lifters aren't very into "recovery" and even fewer have any concept of allowing the body to actually go beyond recovery and super compensate before hitting it again.

Not talking about any kind or "Hard Gainer" stuff - just taking care of ourselves beyond actually lifting.

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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:31 pm

Thinking back, I wonder if the times I felt I was really overtraining was when I entered the long, dark,crucible of suck

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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:14 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Thinking back, I wonder if the times I felt I was really overtraining was when I entered the long, dark,crucible of suck

What Broz calls, the Dark Times?

God I sure hope so...otherwise I've been doing it super wrong....which is more probable than not.
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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by dead man walking » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:31 pm

what's adrenal fatigue? the same as overtraining? does it even exist?

it's the sort of thing quack would go on about. where is quack?
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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by powerlifter54 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:18 pm

WildGorillaMan wrote:There's no such thing at overtraining, only underdosing.
And low GPP.

In the words of Russians, if you want to train a lot, you need to train a lot.
"Start slowly, then ease off". Tortuga Golden Striders Running Club, Pensacola 1984.

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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by powerlifter54 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:39 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Thinking back, I wonder if the times I felt I was really overtraining was when I entered the long, dark,crucible of suck
You are a rare person i would concur with on this.
"Start slowly, then ease off". Tortuga Golden Striders Running Club, Pensacola 1984.

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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by TerryB » Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:56 am

It's pretty damn hard to overtrain. I eat ephedrine like candy, sleep like absolute shit, and have trained 5, 6, 7 times a week with all the heavy lifts several times a week + more than enough accessory work, and I didn't overtrain. Motivation outran my body but I didn't overtrain.
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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:04 am

climber511 wrote:True Over Training has a lot to do with your definition I guess. To me its when you have pretty much fubared most of your body's systems...For me at least it was the endurance work that got me more so than the lifting.
I did a seminar with Svend Karlsen 3 years where he said that you can't overtrain when training for strength. He said he had seen cross country skiers in Norway screw themselves up for years. Considering our friend the OP is a former endurance guy, I think this is what he's getting at.
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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by Beer Jew » Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:21 pm

Juggernaut are putting out a shitload of good content lately.

Much better than the shit Mark Bell's been spewing out.

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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:51 pm

Beer Jew wrote: Much better than the shit Mark Bell's been spewing out.
The tongue-in-cheek wigger persona almost seems to be taking over. He's becoming the Conor McGregor of Youtubers who are trying to make money off of less than 200k subscribers.

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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by Boris » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:54 pm

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:
climber511 wrote:True Over Training has a lot to do with your definition I guess. To me its when you have pretty much fubared most of your body's systems...For me at least it was the endurance work that got me more so than the lifting.
I did a seminar with Svend Karlsen 3 years where he said that you can't overtrain when training for strength. He said he had seen cross country skiers in Norway screw themselves up for years. Considering our friend the OP is a former endurance guy, I think this is what he's getting at.
Chad more or less said the exact same thing in the video above. I get it and agree. If you are only training for an hour or two a day, pretty unlikely you are pushing yourself into systemic overtraining.

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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:30 pm

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:
climber511 wrote:True Over Training has a lot to do with your definition I guess. To me its when you have pretty much fubared most of your body's systems...For me at least it was the endurance work that got me more so than the lifting.
I did a seminar with Svend Karlsen 3 years where he said that you can't overtrain when training for strength. He said he had seen cross country skiers in Norway screw themselves up for years. Considering our friend the OP is a former endurance guy, I think this is what he's getting at.

You can FUBAR your cortisol, test, all kinds of blood markers for a couple two three weeks....that's a bad overreach. We've all done that..most of us on purpose.

A true overtraining event takes months and months to recover from (minimum) and in some ways you never really do. I can trace my fcked up endrocrine system to training the offseason 99-2000. If you count the knee surgeries as part of that event, it took almost 5 years to fully recover. I'm sure with better guidance I could have made it out in less time but it is what it is.
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Re: No such thing at overtraining....

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:16 pm

I'm the guy Israetel talked about in the first video, with crappy recovery. I could cross over to overreaching but even that is unlikely as things stand now.
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