Strength makes you a Lion

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Sangoma
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Strength makes you a Lion

Post by Sangoma » Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:28 pm

On the topic of strength. Lions are a South African team from Jo'burg. For a few years they were the bottom of the barrel, to the point that in 2013 they were kicked off from the annual Super Rugby tournament (and replaced by even worse the am, Kings).

In 2014 they hired a new coach, Johan Ackerman, who apparently places great emphasis on strength training. Among other things obviously, otherwise his rugby team would consist of powerlifters.

Anyway, this year - only two years after Ackerman took over - the Lions are in the Super Rugby final, having convincingly defeated last year's champions Highlanders in the semis.

What I am saying is - spremth is good, yeeeah.
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Re: Strength makes you a Lion

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:08 pm

This post otherizes the differently able members of this forum.

as a side query...how many rugby peeps utilize grapping (sambo/judo/catch) and tumbling modalities? This would seem similarly supportive of general abilities needed for some positions.
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Re: Strength makes you a Lion

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:43 pm

I used basic tumbling and rolling when I coached the girls because I found it useful when I played. Gin master and I talked about judo for the girls as a way to avoid concussions by strengthening the neck, he was trying this with his soccer girls with good effect, but I never got a chance.

Like with football, rugby is combative enough so grapplers and strikers have a bit of a hole card...brute strength and blinding speed (separate or together) remain a premier weapon.

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Re: Strength makes you a Lion

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:44 pm

Strength and weight goes good in strumming, rucks, and mauls.

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Re: Strength makes you a Lion

Post by Sangoma » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:07 pm

Being big and strong definitely helps to carry the ball. As well as tackling others. Sometimes it is mind-blowing to watch someone running twenty meters with three guys from the opposing team hanging on him. Johan Lomu from the 1990-s Kiwi team was the prime example. Being an Islander obviously helped as well.
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Re: Strength makes you a Lion

Post by syaigh » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:23 am

Rawr.
Miss Piggy wrote:Never eat more than you can lift.

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Re: Strength makes you a Lion

Post by powerlifter54 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:55 am

My experience playing on a very, very good side in Pensacola was strength is a great advantage, but not primary. i was the smallest but strongest prop of any team we played. And as long as i had a good second row i could drive my opponent backwards at ease. But if our side faltered and the other pack, usually much bigger, got us moving backward strength was not enough, another 50 pounds would have been helpful. Being very fast and on a smallish but also pretty fast pack was a huge advantage. As was our conditioning. Being Americans our skill level was marginal. When we played a bunch of Brits off a ship, all of whom were older and fatter, they handed us our ass for a half just based on crazy skills. But we wore them down and won going away. Those guys spent the evening showing us how to play and drink.

I rate the important elements like this.
1. Speed
2. Skill
3. Size
4a. Strength
4b. Conditioning.
5. Ability to play hungover.
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Re: Strength makes you a Lion

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:31 am

powerlifter54 wrote:My experience playing on a very, very good side in Pensacola was strength is a great advantage, but not primary. i was the smallest but strongest prop of any team we played. And as long as i had a good second row i could drive my opponent backwards at ease. But if our side faltered and the other pack, usually much bigger, got us moving backward strength was not enough, another 50 pounds would have been helpful. Being very fast and on a smallish but also pretty fast pack was a huge advantage. As was our conditioning. Being Americans our skill level was marginal. When we played a bunch of Brits off a ship, all of whom were older and fatter, they handed us our ass for a half just based on crazy skills. But we wore them down and won going away. Those guys spent the evening showing us how to play and drink.

I rate the important elements like this.
1. Speed
2. Skill
3. Size
4a. Strength
4b. Conditioning.
5. Ability to play drunk.
Fixed that for you.
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Re: Strength makes you a Lion

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:48 pm

Skill, like in so many other sports, often trumps speed or strength, and even conditioning.

I remember wondering how the hell that old guy can run around the field like that even though I know he dogs it in team conditioning and see him slowly plodding along the roads at 6AM on my way to work.

Live and learn.

I came to understand the price he paid for Saturday glory, and it was paid in pain, ice bathing, and ibuprofen.

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Re: Strength makes you a Lion

Post by Shapecharge » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:37 pm

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:
powerlifter54 wrote:My experience playing on a very, very good side in Pensacola was strength is a great advantage, but not primary. i was the smallest but strongest prop of any team we played. And as long as i had a good second row i could drive my opponent backwards at ease. But if our side faltered and the other pack, usually much bigger, got us moving backward strength was not enough, another 50 pounds would have been helpful. Being very fast and on a smallish but also pretty fast pack was a huge advantage. As was our conditioning. Being Americans our skill level was marginal. When we played a bunch of Brits off a ship, all of whom were older and fatter, they handed us our ass for a half just based on crazy skills. But we wore them down and won going away. Those guys spent the evening showing us how to play and drink.

I rate the important elements like this.
1. Speed
2. Skill
3. Size
4a. Strength
4b. Conditioning.
5. Ability to play drunk.
Fixed that for you.

Also don't forget:
6. nunchuck skills
7. Bow hunting skillz
8. Computer hacking skillz

Napoleon Dynamite would want you to add these others just to help with the chicks.

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Re: Strength makes you a Lion

Post by macmad » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:32 pm

South Africa have always had strong rugby players
What the lions have that's different this year is a fast skilful style of play
They were not thrown out of the competition for 2 years because of results,
That was due to the South African government demanding the Kings be included ( as a mainly black team) they got back in this year when the number of teams expanded again
I'll be at the final watching my team smash the Lions, they beat two tired NZ teams who had to travel to South Africa via playoff games in Australia, no team has ever won the final travelling either from or to South Africa

Strength is important, skill and speed is more important
Jacks list is good, but I'd put conditioning 3rd, that's one reason why the All Blacks and previously crusaders have played so well in the last 20 minutes when fitness levels open games and win games

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Re: Strength makes you a Lion

Post by Really Big Strong Guy » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:46 pm

I feel that strength makes everything easier for sports - to a point. To excel at the apex of any given sport, one must concentrate on the skills required of the sport. There comes a point where strength hinders skill - and one must learn where that point is at, or recognize it, in order to continue progressing in a given sport.

At that point, IMO, it's about maintaining the strength base you have while continuing to evolve skill wise. You may need to broaden your strength base by incorporating different movements and incorporating recovery methods that work for that particular athlete (not PED, stuff like ultrasound, cryo therapy, compression, SMR, deep tissue massage, etc.)
The cool thing about training is that becoming more sexy is just a side effect........

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Re: Strength makes you a Lion

Post by Testiclaw » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:33 pm

What about that lion who ate that Chinese chick when she got out of her car?

He was probably hungry again twenty-minutes later.
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Re: Strength makes you a Lion

Post by tonkadtx » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:05 pm

as a side query...how many rugby peeps utilize grapping (sambo/judo/catch) and tumbling modalities?
I played in college and then men's club till I was in my early 30's as a prop and did judo at the same time. I used to take a break from judo during the seasons (two seasons a year fall & spring). Good grapplers definitely take to rugby like fish to water. I recruited some judo guys to play rugby, and vice versa. Some of them are still doing judo. We also had some guys who had wrestled, etc. It helps with things like physical aggression, willingness to put your body into contact (tackling, rucks, mauls, etc.). I never used it as specific training for rugby, more like it was an another hobby that was complimentary.

As far as the rest of the discussion goes, I was say the two most important qualities are skill and conditioning, but since I always fucking hated distance running I used to use my size and strength to gorilla people.

Every American who has ever played the game has had the experience of sucking wind and slugging down gatorade at half time while watching fat, old ex-pats or foreign guys smoking cigarettes and laughing. A lifetime of playing the game has developed such efficiency that they expend minimal energy. This happens to me in judo too, one of my coaches was a Polish Olympian, one was a high level Romanian. While everyone else sucks wind, they go out for a smoke or play soccer with medicine balls on the mats. A lifetime of learning to use energy efficiently.

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Re: Strength makes you a Lion

Post by Sangoma » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:09 am

macmad wrote: What the lions have that's different this year is a fast skilful style of play
They were not thrown out of the competition for 2 years because of results,
That was due to the South African government demanding the Kings be included ( as a mainly black team) they got back in this year when the number of teams expanded again
I'll be at the final watching my team smash the Lions, they beat two tired NZ teams who had to travel to South Africa via playoff games in Australia, no team has ever won the final travelling either from or to South Africa
Politics or not, Lions were the worst South African team at the time. You are probably right, and they are going to lose to Hurricanes - part of it being jet lagged - but Ackerman's achievement of getting them to the finals is still impressive.
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