your socialist government

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dead man walking
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your socialist government

Post by dead man walking » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:22 pm

markets are good, except when your friends can't compete. when that happens, you change the rules to subsidize your friends. as long as they're rich.
Lost in all the attention to the Trump administration’s effort to scuttle President Barack Obama’s clean power plan is its attempt to prop up the struggling coal industry by doing something very un-Republican — subsidizing it.

Last month, Rick Perry, the secretary of energy, asked the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission — the independent agency that regulates electricity markets — to adopt a new rule to pay certain coal and nuclear plants more than they would otherwise earn in a competitive market. In essence, consumers would pay these plants a premium for electricity that competitors could produce, and are already producing, more cheaply.
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baffled
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Re: your socialist government

Post by baffled » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:03 pm

Fascist seems closer
Whoever would overthrow the Liberty of a Nation, must begin by subduing the Freeness of Speech
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dead man walking
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Re: your socialist government

Post by dead man walking » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:18 pm

where socialist and fascist come full circle and meet with authoritarian bullies and no-nothings in charge.

and to think, so-called conservatives and libertarians support this fucking regime.
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nafod
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Re: your socialist government

Post by nafod » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:19 pm

dead man walking wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:22 pm
markets are good, except when your friends can't compete. when that happens, you change the rules to subsidize your friends. as long as they're rich.
Lost in all the attention to the Trump administration’s effort to scuttle President Barack Obama’s clean power plan is its attempt to prop up the struggling coal industry by doing something very un-Republican — subsidizing it.

Last month, Rick Perry, the secretary of energy, asked the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission — the independent agency that regulates electricity markets — to adopt a new rule to pay certain coal and nuclear plants more than they would otherwise earn in a competitive market. In essence, consumers would pay these plants a premium for electricity that competitors could produce, and are already producing, more cheaply.
I think this is related to the idea that as power generation gets massively distributed (private solar and wind at each house) that people only want to buy coal power when it is cloudy and calm, using their own stuff otherwise, but the coal power companies have to pay the money to be ready when the solar hippy comes knocking for juice.
Don’t believe everything you think.

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DrDonkeyLove
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Re: your socialist government

Post by DrDonkeyLove » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:50 pm

Solyndra
Image
Mao wrote:Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party

dead man walking
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Re: your socialist government

Post by dead man walking » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:31 pm

nafod wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:19 pm
dead man walking wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:22 pm
markets are good, except when your friends can't compete. when that happens, you change the rules to subsidize your friends. as long as they're rich.
Lost in all the attention to the Trump administration’s effort to scuttle President Barack Obama’s clean power plan is its attempt to prop up the struggling coal industry by doing something very un-Republican — subsidizing it.

Last month, Rick Perry, the secretary of energy, asked the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission — the independent agency that regulates electricity markets — to adopt a new rule to pay certain coal and nuclear plants more than they would otherwise earn in a competitive market. In essence, consumers would pay these plants a premium for electricity that competitors could produce, and are already producing, more cheaply.
I think this is related to the idea that as power generation gets massively distributed (private solar and wind at each house) that people only want to buy coal power when it is cloudy and calm, using their own stuff otherwise, but the coal power companies have to pay the money to be ready when the solar hippy comes knocking for juice.
these plants are not currently needed for grid reliability.

constellation had a dirty-ass coal plant that was simply essential for reliability in the balt gas & elec territory, and it was "must run" and received the highest bid in the market at all hours, no matter its operating costs. so yeah, some baseload power that can be dispacted and ramped up is essential, but we don't need the plants rick perry is talking about.

a further point, although solar and wind are intermittent, their generation is predictable, both seasonally, time of day and likely output. it's call weather forecasting. so most reliability needs can be planned for, and we've got less expensive gas to do the job.

let's be clear, the only response to perry's bullshit is: bullshit.
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dead man walking
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Re: your socialist government

Post by dead man walking » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:36 pm

DrDonkeyLove wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:50 pm
Solyndra
Image
gaddammit jackass, you're pissing me off.

we've had this exchange before, i am sure.

solyndra was a government incentive program gone bad. point taken.

but the last time you pulled this stinking rabbit corpse from the tiny hat that goes on your pinhead, i noted that southern company got billions, not mere hundreds of millions, for the development of a "clean" coal plant that never got built.

tofuckingday, these are your guys and they're fucking this one up. don't talk to me about my guy. he's out of the frame. he's partying. michelle is blowing him. the problem today isn't a solar plant from years ago.

you've got to do better. or apologize for your ill-considered vote.
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Re: your socialist government

Post by Yes I Have Balls » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:34 pm

DrDonkeyLove wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:50 pm
Solyndra
Image
Tesla
Abengoa biorefinery
Cogentrix
Hugoton, KS
Beacon Power

and dozens of other success stories from that program, that by the way has turned a $30M profit ? *shrug*

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DrDonkeyLove
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Re: your socialist government

Post by DrDonkeyLove » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:14 am

Yes I Have Balls wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:34 pm
DrDonkeyLove wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:50 pm
Solyndra
Image
Tesla
Abengoa biorefinery
Cogentrix
Hugoton, KS
Beacon Power

and dozens of other success stories from that program, that by the way has turned a $30M profit ? *shrug*
Assuming you're correct, Obama "created" many green jobs. Trump "saved" the jobs of many noble coal miners who are needed to power Prius's and Tesla's before they turn into toxic waste. Mother Gaia :heart: Obama/Trump.
Mao wrote:Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party

bennyonesix
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Re: your socialist government

Post by bennyonesix » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:19 am

What is the text from dwm? I am curious.

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Turdacious
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Re: your socialist government

Post by Turdacious » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:34 am

dead man walking wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:31 pm
nafod wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:19 pm
dead man walking wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:22 pm
markets are good, except when your friends can't compete. when that happens, you change the rules to subsidize your friends. as long as they're rich.
Lost in all the attention to the Trump administration’s effort to scuttle President Barack Obama’s clean power plan is its attempt to prop up the struggling coal industry by doing something very un-Republican — subsidizing it.

Last month, Rick Perry, the secretary of energy, asked the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission — the independent agency that regulates electricity markets — to adopt a new rule to pay certain coal and nuclear plants more than they would otherwise earn in a competitive market. In essence, consumers would pay these plants a premium for electricity that competitors could produce, and are already producing, more cheaply.
I think this is related to the idea that as power generation gets massively distributed (private solar and wind at each house) that people only want to buy coal power when it is cloudy and calm, using their own stuff otherwise, but the coal power companies have to pay the money to be ready when the solar hippy comes knocking for juice.
these plants are not currently needed for grid reliability.

constellation had a dirty-ass coal plant that was simply essential for reliability in the balt gas & elec territory, and it was "must run" and received the highest bid in the market at all hours, no matter its operating costs. so yeah, some baseload power that can be dispacted and ramped up is essential, but we don't need the plants rick perry is talking about.

a further point, although solar and wind are intermittent, their generation is predictable, both seasonally, time of day and likely output. it's call weather forecasting. so most reliability needs can be planned for, and we've got less expensive gas to do the job.

let's be clear, the only response to perry's bullshit is: bullshit.
There's no bullshit to Perry's approach-- he's from a state with very little coal and abundant natural gas supplies.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule

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