IGX

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/02 ... -officers/

Republicans in Indiana are taking self-defense too far. In a move supported by the National Rifle Association, the Indiana House passed Senate Bill 1, which allows homeowners to shoot and kill police officers they believe are unlawfully on their property or in their homes. The bill could also extend to federal law enforcement officials.

Non-hysterical write up here:

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/m ... ce-enteri/

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state ... uote]Today, by a 74 to 24 vote, the state House of Representatives passed critical Castle Doctrine legislation that would return hundreds of years of common law and civil liberties protections to Hoosiers. As previously reported, this legislation became necessary after a disastrous state Supreme Court decision last May concluded that public policy did not favor the longstanding and widely recognized right of an individual to resist an illegal trespass by a police officer, a right that had also been recognized by state statute.

Residents of Indiana were outraged last spring when the state Supreme Court ruled in Barnes v. State of Indiana (2011) that force against a police officer in such circumstances could never be justified. This activist court decision created a dangerous carve-out from self-defense rights by prohibiting use of defensive force by a person even in the unlikely case of a violent, unjustified attack by an officer acting completely outside his lawful duties. No one supports our nation's law enforcement officers more strongly than the NRA, and it is with this view in mind that the NRA has supported attempts to fix the precedent set in Barnes that violated the civil liberties of all residents of Indiana.

Until the Barnes decision, the touchstone of the law of self-defense (in Indiana and elsewhere) was reasonable good faith action in response to a reasonably perceived threat of illegal action or harm. Contrary to some reports, the reasonable person standard does not protect those whose actions are motivated by malice, criminal intent, or abnormal sensitivity or paranoia. [/quote]

Per NRA, this bill returns Indiana to the state of Anarchy that existed before the state supreme court made up its own law nine months ago.

Interesting point. What should an individuals right to self defense be when law enforcement officers are involved?

I worry this might go too far. I agree that people should be able to defend themselves against the unlawful use of force by a police officer; but it sounds like this takes the decision about what's an illegal entry out of the courtroom, even in cases where the person does not believe his or his families physical safety in danger.

So this will now be used by LE as an argument for even bigger guns, right?

After watching Sons of Guns, i'm still wondering why Baton Rouge needs grenade launchers on their boats when their admitted main mission is rescue.

Dave Chesser wrote:So this will now be used by LE as an argument for even bigger guns, right?

After watching Sons of Guns, i'm still wondering why Baton Rouge needs grenade launchers on their boats when their admitted main mission is rescue.

99.99% of cops are SOF wannabe's. That's why they dress in BDUs and carry assault rifles like they're about to clear a terrorist hideout in some middle east shit hole.

The real issue isn't whether or not you can shoot a crooked cop in a justifiable shooting in your own home, but whether you can do so without long term retaliation by the rest of the local PD.

The right to defend your home against an unknown invader should be Absolute, whether that is LE with a warrant or a junkie with a gun.

The chilling effect this might have is on no knock or low knock warrants where they yell Police once and kick in your door. Again here, it is unreasonable to assume someone woken fromm a sound sleep taken by surprise can tell the difference between a cop and an intruder. it is imprudent not to defend yourself in this case. This bill could correct that problem.

Police Unions will squeal about officer safety..Good. these types of searches are unsafe for everyone and should not be conducted except in the most extreme circumstances...(terrorist finger on trigger scenario)..What's deeply amusing is the way the Police conduct themselves when there is an actual threat to officer safety...They make a big noise. surround the house with cars vans trucks etc and wait it out. In these cases, a homeowner has no reasonable expectation that it is anyone other than legitimate LE serving a warrant or is there to make an arrest whether legal or not....ergo it is unreasonable even if the warrant is tainted in some way to resit with force. The police almost never perform high risk raids in cases where they know the person is armed and dangerous or there is a larger risk of hurting an innocent person (hostage scenarios etc).

This bill will not survive in the homeland security era and it's a damn shame, shows how far we've fallen.

A nearby city's SWAT team' equipment was sold off by a Chief who had a grudge against the SWAT leader, and while she couldn't disband the squad, she did sell off all their assault gear and toys for, literally, pennies on the dollar.

Now that area has to rely on the State Police SWAT unit.

So, some dude and his wife are screaming and yelling and carrying on, and at one point the guy whips a gun out and the wife leaves the house with two teenage kids and calls the cops.

The dude is still boozing it up, and the cops come to the house, and have to wait there for a couple hours for the SWAT team members to assemble from up to 70 miles away.

The guy decides to kill the lights, the SWAT team shoots out EVERY WINDOW in the house, the dude starts screaming he's coming out, he was just turning off the lights before they took him off to jail.

Maybe if cops thought you could beat their ass if they were doing something unlawful, they'd be more careful before hassling, stopping, and arresting folks. You know, have FACTS to support their action before they take it.

I said this elsewhere only a couple of days ago, but.....

“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Matthew 26:52

Yes, I'm drunk wrote: “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Matthew 26:52

For many, that ain't a bad place to be.

Dunn wrote:

Yes, I'm drunk wrote: “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Matthew 26:52

For many, that ain't a bad place to be.

Yes, totally. I admire the fact that in Denmark there's no law making escape from prison a crime. There's something satisfying in the logical consistency that the rules of the game reflect the nature of the game. So, if an armed response team want to sneak into your house to arrest you, well, he who draws the sword.....

Blaidd Drwg wrote:The right to defend your home against an unknown invader should be Absolute, whether that is LE with a warrant or a junkie with a gun.

Exactly.

If someone enters my house without a house key or me answering the door, I don't care who it is, they better be quicker on the trigger than me, else as YID is saying, they'll die by the (12 gauge) sword.

In my view, the concerns over people taking shots at cops for the hell of it because they think they're there illegally is overblown.

Reasonable people aren't overly excited about shooting anyone, let alone a cop. And the people who are looking to slug someone would have capped a cop with or without this law. It's a non issue.

I want to be able to shootand kill mail carriers, Jehova Witnesses, and Census takers.

I'm pretty sure this law has you covered.

jgmack wrote:I want to be able to shootand kill mail carriers, Jehova Witnesses, and Census takers.

This is all approved behavior in BigEarlandia.

Zombomatic wrote:

Blaidd Drwg wrote:The right to defend your home against an unknown invader should be Absolute, whether that is LE with a warrant or a junkie with a gun.

Exactly.

If someone enters my house without a house key or me answering the door, I don't care who it is, they better be quicker on the trigger than me, else as YID is saying, they'll die by the (12 gauge) sword.

Agreed, though mine is a pitsol grip .410 with buck shot.

baffled wrote:In my view, the concerns over people taking shots at cops for the hell of it because they think they're there illegally is overblown.

Reasonable people aren't overly excited about shooting anyone, let alone a cop. And the people who are looking to slug someone would have capped a cop with or without this law. It's a non issue.

This is what I was thinking. I highly doubt the average person would not even think along those lines. Besides, it is not like they declared open season on douchebag cops on the streets. If you illegally enter a home you get shot....heavens that means that they are just like anybody else.

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:A nearby city's SWAT team' equipment was sold off by a Chief who had a grudge against the SWAT leader, and while she couldn't disband the squad, she did sell off all their assault gear and toys for, literally, pennies on the dollar.

Now that area has to rely on the State Police SWAT unit.

So, some dude and his wife are screaming and yelling and carrying on, and at one point the guy whips a gun out and the wife leaves the house with two teenage kids and calls the cops.

The dude is still boozing it up, and the cops come to the house, and have to wait there for a couple hours for the SWAT team members to assemble from up to 70 miles away.

The guy decides to kill the lights, the SWAT team shoots out EVERY WINDOW in the house, the dude starts screaming he's coming out, he was just turning off the lights before they took him off to jail.

This story deserves a title. I'm thinking "Just an Average Tuesday Afternoon in Sagnasty."

Blaidd Drwg wrote:The right to defend your home against an unknown invader should be Absolute, whether that is LE with a warrant or a junkie with a gun.

The chilling effect this might have is on no knock or low knock warrants where they yell Police once and kick in your door. Again here, it is unreasonable to assume someone woken fromm a sound sleep taken by surprise can tell the difference between a cop and an intruder. it is imprudent not to defend yourself in this case. This bill could correct that problem.

Police Unions will squeal about officer safety..Good. these types of searches are unsafe for everyone and should not be conducted except in the most extreme circumstances...(terrorist finger on trigger scenario)..What's deeply amusing is the way the Police conduct themselves when there is an actual threat to officer safety...They make a big noise. surround the house with cars vans trucks etc and wait it out. In these cases, a homeowner has no reasonable expectation that it is anyone other than legitimate LE serving a warrant or is there to make an arrest whether legal or not....ergo it is unreasonable even if the warrant is tainted in some way to resit with force. The police almost never perform high risk raids in cases where they know the person is armed and dangerous or there is a larger risk of hurting an innocent person (hostage scenarios etc).

This bill will not survive in the homeland security era and it's a damn shame, shows how far we've fallen.