IGX

A federal judge on Monday overturned Chicago's ban on the sale and transfer of firearms, ruling that the city's ordinances aimed at reducing gun violence are unconstitutional.

U.S. District Judge Edmond E. Chang said in his ruling that while the government has a duty to protect its citizens, it's also obligated to protect constitutional rights, including the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense. However, Chang said he would temporarily stay the effects of his ruling, meaning the ordinances can stand while the city decides whether to appeal.

The decision is just the latest to attack what were some of the toughest gun-control laws in the nation. In 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down Chicago's long-standing gun ban. And last year, Illinois legislators were forced by a federal appeals court to adopt a law allowing residents to carry concealed weapons in Illinois, the only state that still banned the practice. The resulting state law largely stripped city and officials of surrounding Cook County of their authority to regulate guns, which especially irked officials in Chicago, where residents had to apply for concealed-carry permits through the police chief.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/01/06/ch ... p=trending

DISCUSS

I'm not up 100% on my statistics in terms of this, but didn't Chicago still have a huge problem with violent crime even with the strict gun laws???

Dr. Agkistrodon wrote:I'm not up 100% on my statistics in terms of this, but didn't Chicago still have a huge problem with violent crime even with the strict gun laws???

Yes, one of the worst.

Well, I guess one could argue thus:

"How can you expect to decrease violent, in an already violent place, by giving people access to more guns?"


Well...?

Well what if tougher firearm regulation isn't the answer? What if it never was the answer to begin with?

I don't think firearm legislation, as it pertains to how they've done it in places like Chicago and New York accomplish a damn thing in terms of reducing violent crime.

And what's more, take a look at the number of penitentiaries which are run by corporations, under contract with the government... There is a lot of money to be made in this Prison Industry.

And there are a lot of motherfuckers incarcerated here in the U.S. ... It almost leads me to believe that somehow, in other ways, violent crime is being encouraged, and the existing legislation, especially in terms of firearms, is as useless as a bandaid on a shotgun wound.

I've never thought that guns were the problem, ever. I always thought people were the problem. And what I'm driving at here is not so much a pro-firearm vs. anti-firearm debate, but rather, a critical examination of the system at-large and how, ultimately, the system wants lots of people behind bars because it affords corporations a plethora of opportunities to earn big dollars.

I honestly think lawmakers want everybody to commit violent crimes.

It's pretty straightforward. No city gun laws, even perfectly designed ones that were magically effective, will ever work since Chicago is not a walled city. I live in the city and am 20 minutes from a gun shop, because cars. If Illinois banned gun sales, that would stretch my drive to under 40 minutes in one direction and an hour in the other. That's not enough to realistically affect the economics of gun buying for criminals.

Since you don't have a way to impact criminals, and you're just making it a pain in the ass for law-abiding citizens, these laws are dumb. Same with CCW. CCW holders very rarely commit crimes outside of negligent ones. Let people do what they want, as long as they aren't endangering others (train them).

Grandpa's Spells wrote:It's pretty straightforward. No city gun laws, even perfectly designed ones that were magically effective, will ever work since Chicago is not a walled city. I live in the city and am 20 minutes from a gun shop, because cars. If Illinois banned gun sales, that would stretch my drive to under 40 minutes in one direction and an hour in the other. That's not enough to realistically affect the economics of gun buying for criminals.

Since you don't have a way to impact criminals, and you're just making it a pain in the ass for law-abiding citizens, these laws are dumb. Same with CCW. CCW holders very rarely commit crimes outside of negligent ones. Let people do what they want, as long as they aren't endangering others (train them).

I agree for the most part except for the fact that criminals rarely buy guns at stores. Gun laws are stupid.

Grandpa's Spells wrote: No city gun laws, even perfectly designed ones that were magically effective, will ever work since Chicago is not a walled city.

Mind explaining all of the illegal drugs that those gangs sell in Chicago, Troy? Do we need to build a wall around the United States to "stop the flow of illegal drugs" to Chicago?

In their study, U. of C. researchers combed through gun-trace data to determine the weapons most likely bought by straw purchasers.

Those are people without criminal records who buy guns for felons — often at a hefty markup.

Fifty-eight percent of those recovered guns were bought in Illinois. About 19 percent were purchased in Indiana, 3 percent in Wisconsin — and less than 2 percent in Mississippi.

Cook County was the source of 45 percent of the guns over that period, according to the crime lab’s study.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/crime/1471 ... -guns.html

Here is a PDF of the Form 4473. Please note the "straw purchaser" clause in it.

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download ... 4473-1.pdf

How many of these clowns with Illinois FOIDs who straw purchase for gangs are prosecuted?

We're told that we "need tough gun" laws. The same sort of "tough laws" that keep gangs in Chicago from selling drugs so that they can buy guns through straw purchasers.

Gene wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote: No city gun laws, even perfectly designed ones that were magically effective, will ever work since Chicago is not a walled city.

Mind explaining all of the illegal drugs that those gangs sell in Chicago, Troy? Do we need to build a wall around the United States to "stop the flow of illegal drugs" to Chicago?

You're taking issue with a hypothetical scenario that involves the use of magic. Try to pull it together.

Dammit.

http://www.irongarmx.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=561756

Every time I need a gun for a drive by, liquor store stick up, enlarging my drug distribution territory or just plain old thuggery; I head down to the local gun store where they make me fill out & sign government forms, present & copy my ID, have my back ground run against a national data base and in some states provide a finger print. It never occurred to me buy a gun illegally. Why that would be illegal! If you can count on one thing, it's criminals following the law.

Batboy2/75 wrote:If you can count on one thing, it's criminals following the law.

By definition, those who break the law are criminals.

Perhaps we could eliminate all laws, thus eliminating all crime!

Despite vast evidence to the contrary, you may be a genius!

This is a victory for African-Americans in Chicago. Black market guns are notoriously over priced (PS, I hate that term "black market" because why does everything bad or shady have to be black AMIRITE?). Anyhoo, now they should be able to source more affordable guns at their local Wal-Marts, or Dick Sporting Goods, or Target, or Sammy Shalib's Gat Emporium. All the money that would have otherwise gone to over priced illegal guns can now be spent on college, books, vocational courses, trade schools, health care, etc. The oppressive hand of overreaching government has now been lifted and the best and brightest in our urban minority communities can more freely exercise their economic power to better themselves and their families.

MOAR AFFORDABLE MURDER IS A VICTORY FOR TEH PEEPLES.

Kazuya Mishima wrote:This is a victory for African-Americans in Chicago. Black market guns are notoriously over priced (PS, I hate that term "black market" because why does everything bad or shady have to be black AMIRITE?). Anyhoo, now they should be able to source more affordable guns at their local Wal-Marts, or Dick Sporting Goods, or Target, or Sammy Shalib's Gat Emporium. All the money that would have otherwise gone to over priced illegal guns can now be spent on college, books, vocational courses, trade schools, health care, etc. The oppressive hand of overreaching government has now been lifted and the best and brightest in our urban minority communities can more freely exercise their economic power to better themselves and their families.

MOAR AFFORDABLE MURDER IS A VICTORY FOR TEH PEEPLES.

LMAO

Batboy2/75 wrote:Every time I need a gun for a drive by, liquor store stick up, enlarging my drug distribution territory or just plain old thuggery; I head down to the local gun store where they make me fill out & sign government forms, present & copy my ID, have my back ground run against a national data base and in some states provide a finger print. It never occurred to me buy a gun illegally. Why that would be illegal! If you can count on one thing, it's criminals following the law.

Unless they were stolen from the factory warehouse or smuggled in across the borders, the gun manufacturers made their money. Follow the money.

nafod wrote:

Batboy2/75 wrote:Every time I need a gun for a drive by, liquor store stick up, enlarging my drug distribution territory or just plain old thuggery; I head down to the local gun store where they make me fill out & sign government forms, present & copy my ID, have my back ground run against a national data base and in some states provide a finger print. It never occurred to me buy a gun illegally. Why that would be illegal! If you can count on one thing, it's criminals following the law.

Unless they were stolen from the factory warehouse or smuggled in across the borders, the gun manufacturers made their money. Follow the money.

Same could be said of the cars used in a drive by. Inanimate objects don't commit crimes, people do.

A gun pointed at his gut, the off-duty sheriff's sergeant digs through his pockets with his left hand, fumbling for money, as the three robbers surround him at the Far South Side gas station.

The sergeant is surer with his right hand, quickly drawing his own gun and firing point-blank. The gunman, 16, drops at his feet as the two others scatter, according to surveillance video that captured the robbery Monday night at a Citgo station at 103rd Street and Cottage Grove Avenue, across the street from Gately Stadium.

The sergeant swings around at the fleeing robbers, then points the gun down as the gunman struggles to get up. The video shows the sergeant kicking away the robber's gun and then opening the passenger door of his own car, apparently to get his phone.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... 3345.story#

To Chicago's credit, January was a relatively good month-- hopefully that trend continues when the weather gets warmer.
http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/homicides

Turdacious wrote:

A gun pointed at his gut, the off-duty sheriff's sergeant digs through his pockets with his left hand, fumbling for money, as the three robbers surround him at the Far South Side gas station.

The sergeant is surer with his right hand, quickly drawing his own gun and firing point-blank. The gunman, 16, drops at his feet as the two others scatter, according to surveillance video that captured the robbery Monday night at a Citgo station at 103rd Street and Cottage Grove Avenue, across the street from Gately Stadium.

The sergeant swings around at the fleeing robbers, then points the gun down as the gunman struggles to get up. The video shows the sergeant kicking away the robber's gun and then opening the passenger door of his own car, apparently to get his phone.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... 3345.story#

To Chicago's credit, January was a relatively good month-- hopefully that trend continues when the weather gets warmer.
http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/homicides

Can't wait to hear the friends and family reactions to this one...HE WERE A GOOD KID, HE AINT NEVER BEEN IN TROUBLE, HE AINT HAVE TO SHOOT THAT BABY, WE SUING CITGO, THE POPO, MAYOR EMMANUEL, THE GUN MANUFACTURER, AND ALL THE REST DEM WHITE FOLK

Seems like violent criminals the world over always are nice,upstanding people and nobody (who knows them,family etc) can understand why.

4th of July weekend was brutal. I wonder why?

First Mayor Rahm Emanuel cuts the number of police officers. Here is data from the FBI’s UCR:
2008 13,359
2009 13,088
2010 12,515
2011 12,092
2012 11,944
The number of police detectives that solve crimes also fell from 1,100 in 2010, the year before Emanuel became mayor, to 924 in 2012 — that is a 16 percent drop in just two years.

Even worse, under Emanuel police were moved to unfamiliar neighborhoods, losing years of knowledge in dealing with informants and other contacts.

http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.or ... epartment/
The whole thing is an interesting read. Even with them messing with the data, their clearance rates are terrible.