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Coal Industry
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:34 pm
by nafod
Someone needs to figure out how to do something valuable with coal that doesn't involve burning it as a fuel.
Good article
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/opini ... ght-region
Austin, Tex. — Donald J. Trump made many important campaign promises on his way to victory. But saving coal is one promise he won’t be able to keep.
Many in Appalachia and other coal-mining regions believe that President Obama’s supposed war on coal caused a steep decline in the industry’s fortunes. But coal’s struggles to compete are caused by cheap natural gas, cheap renewables, air-quality regulations that got their start in the George W. Bush administration and weaker-than-expected demand for coal in Asia.
My father grew up in coal country, joined to the Navy to avoid the mines, and my grandfather was a coal miner who died eventually of complications from black lung, so I've always kept an eye on the industry. The stuff is just nasty to burn, even "clean" coal. Natural gas is going to nut-kick it out of business. But it is energy-laden...
Re: Coal Industry
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:56 pm
by dead man walking
nafod wrote:Someone needs to figure out how to do something valuable with coal that doesn't involve burning it as a fuel.
put it in your kids' stockings.
ps--the article nafod cited is excellent
Re: Coal Industry
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:19 pm
by powerlifter54
nafod wrote:Someone needs to figure out how to do something valuable with coal that doesn't involve burning it as a fuel.
Good article
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/opini ... ght-region
Austin, Tex. — Donald J. Trump made many important campaign promises on his way to victory. But saving coal is one promise he won’t be able to keep.
Many in Appalachia and other coal-mining regions believe that President Obama’s supposed war on coal caused a steep decline in the industry’s fortunes. But coal’s struggles to compete are caused by cheap natural gas, cheap renewables, air-quality regulations that got their start in the George W. Bush administration and weaker-than-expected demand for coal in Asia.
My father grew up in coal country, joined to the Navy to avoid the mines, and my grandfather was a coal miner who died eventually of complications from black lung, so I've always kept an eye on the industry. The stuff is just nasty to burn, even "clean" coal. Natural gas is going to nut-kick it out of business. But it is energy-laden...
Trying to research conversion of plants to NG from Coal. Gut feeling is way cheaper than new plants, but not finding much info. Any thoughts? i think we can wean ourselves off coal, but bragging about putting Coal Miners out of Jobs was D-U-M-B.
Re: Coal Industry
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:22 pm
by Pinky
Carbon tax. Then let the industry figure out how they want to produce energy.
Re: Coal Industry
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:28 pm
by syaigh
Yeah, lots of family members in both PA and TN were coal miners. Lots died early from black lung as well.
Re: Coal Industry
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:33 pm
by nafod
powerlifter54 wrote:Trying to research conversion of plants to NG from Coal. Gut feeling is way cheaper than new plants, but not finding much info. Any thoughts?
http://www.4cleanair.org/sites/default/ ... pter_9.pdf
The third fuel-switching strategy is to repower the EGU,
that is, to modify the unit or the fuel delivery system to accommodate
the use of a lower-emitting fuel not previously
used. For example, a coal-fired EGU might be reconstructed
to burn natural gas, thus reducing the unit’s emissions rate.
Switching fuels is one of the most straightforward and
technologically feasible strategies for reducing emissions,
but it is not a trivial undertaking.
Lots of powerplants are multi-fuel plants, where for example they burn coal, but have gas turbines (like on a Spruance destroyer) as supplement. They can switch roles on who is prime and who is backup.
Re: Coal Industry
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:35 pm
by dead man walking
syaigh wrote:Yeah, lots of family members in both PA and TN were coal miners. Lots died early from black lung as well.
you load 16 tons and what do you get?
another day older and deeper in debt
tennessee ernie ford
Re: Coal Industry
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:37 pm
by climber511
Live in south eastern Ohio - coal has been big here but over the last decade or two it has been declining. The coal here is relatively dirty which doesn't help. If some technology isn't developed I think coal is done for - both at the mining level and the burning level it just has a lot of health and environmental problems. And since the natural gas production has exploded so much around here - I think it's the kiss of death for coal.
Re: Coal Industry
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:30 pm
by Turdacious
Pinky wrote:Carbon tax. Then let the industry figure out how they want to produce energy.
The one you want and the one you'd get once it got out of Congress would be very different beasts I think.
Re: Coal Industry
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:48 pm
by Andy83
If Trump decides to get the industry up, running and buzzing again, it shall be done. With no soot in the air or black lungs. Guaranteed.
Re: Coal Industry
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:59 pm
by Pinky
Turdacious wrote:Pinky wrote:Carbon tax. Then let the industry figure out how they want to produce energy.
The one you want and the one you'd get once it got out of Congress would be very different beasts I think.
The set of policy proposals that make sense and the set that might survive Congress have very little overlap.
I should add that at least some of the revenue from any carbon tax should be spent helping the displaced workers adjust. That won't happen either, but at least it's a nice thought.