"...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."
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The SCOTUS does have a few instances of ruling in the students favor when it comes to free speech, but they're few and far between, and becoming less and less common.Pinky wrote:Since when do HS students have the right to free speech at school?
I'd strongly disagree.nafod wrote:They're there to learn reading, writing, and arithmetic. Everything else is diversion.
And you'd be wrong. Limitations on students' 1st Amendment rights have been standard since forever.Testiclaw wrote:I'd strongly disagree.nafod wrote:They're there to learn reading, writing, and arithmetic. Everything else is diversion.
As exemplified by the use of your powerful bold fontTesticlaw wrote:I'd strongly disagree.nafod wrote:They're there to learn reading, writing, and arithmetic. Everything else is diversion.
Maybe, and I don't disagree with the general gist of those rulings - kids are there to learn. But the school's excuse is that the t-shirt is "indecent and inappropriate." I throw the bullshit flag on that one given the attire generally allowed in public high schools over the last 20 or so years. Makes this smell like some form of discrimination more than anything else to me.Testiclaw wrote:The Supreme Court has had several cases which ruled in favor of school administrators in regard to limiting expression and speech of students, even when no educational disruption takes place.
What better way to teach our children that rights aren't really rights if they can be taken away, than to limit their rights in schools?
I agree with you, I was just pointing out that it hasn't been uncommon for the SCOTUS to rule in favor of administrators, even if it seems odd to do so.The Crawdaddy wrote:But the school's excuse is that the t-shirt is "indecent and inappropriate." I throw the bullshit flag on that one given the attire generally allowed in public high schools over the last 20 or so years. Makes this smell like some form of discrimination more than anything else to me.
I know limitations on the first amendment for students are common, that's what I was pointing out in my initial posts.And you'd be wrong. Limitations on students' 1st Amendment rights have been standard since forever.
Yes.johno wrote:Many of the little darlings get a heaping helping of "I know my rights," and not much reading, writing & arithmetic.
Example: Does a HS diploma mean anything any more?
IMO, no.
http://www.nber.org/reporter/2008number1/heckman.htmlThe high school graduation rate is a barometer of the health of American society and the skill level of its future workforce. Throughout the first half of the twentieth century, each new cohort of Americans was more likely to graduate from high school than the preceding one. This upward trend in secondary education increased worker productivity and fueled American economic growth .1
In the past 25 years, growing wage differentials between high school graduates and dropouts increased the economic incentives for high school graduation. The real wages of high school dropouts have declined since the early 1970s while those of more skilled workers have risen sharply.2 Heckman, Lochner, and Todd 3 show that in recent decades, the internal rate of return to graduating from high school versus dropping out has increased dramatically and is now above 50 percent. Therefore, it is surprising and disturbing that, at a time when the premium for skills has increased and the return to high school graduation has risen, the high school dropout rate in America is increasing. America is becoming a polarized society. Proportionately more American youth are going to college and graduating than ever before. At the same time, proportionately more are failing to complete high school.
IIRC, Heckman's work shows that the difference between HS grads and dropouts is due to non-cognitive skills. E.g., the dropouts are more likely fuck-ups who can't reliably show up at the same place every day, which makes them lousy employees.Turdacious wrote:Yes.johno wrote:Many of the little darlings get a heaping helping of "I know my rights," and not much reading, writing & arithmetic.
Example: Does a HS diploma mean anything any more?
IMO, no.
http://www.nber.org/reporter/2008number1/heckman.htmlThe high school graduation rate is a barometer of the health of American society and the skill level of its future workforce. Throughout the first half of the twentieth century, each new cohort of Americans was more likely to graduate from high school than the preceding one. This upward trend in secondary education increased worker productivity and fueled American economic growth .1
In the past 25 years, growing wage differentials between high school graduates and dropouts increased the economic incentives for high school graduation. The real wages of high school dropouts have declined since the early 1970s while those of more skilled workers have risen sharply.2 Heckman, Lochner, and Todd 3 show that in recent decades, the internal rate of return to graduating from high school versus dropping out has increased dramatically and is now above 50 percent. Therefore, it is surprising and disturbing that, at a time when the premium for skills has increased and the return to high school graduation has risen, the high school dropout rate in America is increasing. America is becoming a polarized society. Proportionately more American youth are going to college and graduating than ever before. At the same time, proportionately more are failing to complete high school.
Therefore a HS diploma is a useful filtering hiring device for prospective employees?Pinky wrote:IIRC, Heckman's work shows that the difference between HS grads and dropouts is due to non-cognitive skills. E.g., the dropouts are more likely fuck-ups who can't reliably show up at the same place every day, which makes them lousy employees.Turdacious wrote:Yes.johno wrote:Many of the little darlings get a heaping helping of "I know my rights," and not much reading, writing & arithmetic.
Example: Does a HS diploma mean anything any more?
IMO, no.
http://www.nber.org/reporter/2008number1/heckman.htmlThe high school graduation rate is a barometer of the health of American society and the skill level of its future workforce. Throughout the first half of the twentieth century, each new cohort of Americans was more likely to graduate from high school than the preceding one. This upward trend in secondary education increased worker productivity and fueled American economic growth .1
In the past 25 years, growing wage differentials between high school graduates and dropouts increased the economic incentives for high school graduation. The real wages of high school dropouts have declined since the early 1970s while those of more skilled workers have risen sharply.2 Heckman, Lochner, and Todd 3 show that in recent decades, the internal rate of return to graduating from high school versus dropping out has increased dramatically and is now above 50 percent. Therefore, it is surprising and disturbing that, at a time when the premium for skills has increased and the return to high school graduation has risen, the high school dropout rate in America is increasing. America is becoming a polarized society. Proportionately more American youth are going to college and graduating than ever before. At the same time, proportionately more are failing to complete high school.
I should have put a sharper point on my question. Does having a HS diploma mean that a graduate can read, write, or figger? IMO, no.Turdacious wrote:Yes.johno wrote:Does a HS diploma mean anything any more?
IMO, no.
I know a lady who was thrown out of public high school for getting married.johno wrote:Next they'll be depriving HS students of the right to drink, vote, make legal contracts, marry, or serve in the military.
"This is not America."