IGX

Here's a contest to see who, in one less-than-Gene post, can succinctly summarize the Bosnian conflict. This will require knowledge and creativity to bring in the history, religion, culture, etc... to explain what happened and why to a lay audience.

Tito died.

Bux, specifically what do you want to know? I've been there, married one, speak the language, etc. but it's still complex.

Fat Cat wrote:Bux, specifically what do you want to know? I've been there, married one, speak the language, etc. but it's still complex.

That's the problem. I just want to hear a framework around which I can then evaluate articles, etc...

I was flying in Japan whilst my East Coast brethren were "winning" air medals in Bosnia. Subconsciously, I think I tuned the whole conflict out for a decade. Now, my best buddy is working for State and living with his wife and 3 young kids in Belgrade. He sent out this article from the NYT which is very well written but, obviously, one-sided.

seeahill wrote:Tito died.

Tito

What's a Bosnia? Are you guys crazy?

BucketHead wrote:

Fat Cat wrote:Bux, specifically what do you want to know? I've been there, married one, speak the language, etc. but it's still complex.

That's the problem. I just want to hear a framework around which I can then evaluate articles, etc...

I was flying in Japan whilst my East Coast brethren were "winning" air medals in Bosnia. Subconsciously, I think I tuned the whole conflict out for a decade. Now, my best buddy is working for State and living with his wife and 3 young kids in Belgrade. He sent out this article from the NYT which is very well written but, obviously, one-sided.

In my opinion, the war was about identity. During Tito's time, and for a short time afterwards, the predominant ideology of identity was "Brotherhood and Unity". Talking about ethnicity and religion was frowned upon. But socialism broke down across Eastern Europe, people began to cast about for identity. If we aren't socialist Yugoslavians, who are we? People desperately want to know who they are, what they are supposed to be, think, and feel. I could go on and on, but at it's heart, that is it.

Gorbachev wrote:

seeahill wrote:Tito died.

Tito

His real name was Josip Broz, but they called him "Tito". The story is that, in Serbo-Croatian, "ti" means "you" and "to" means "that" as in "you...do that". Tito was the guy who told people what to do.

My unbiased opinion is summarized in : fuck the croats

Didn't the Muslims side with the Nazis in WWI, FC? Wasn't that really at the root of this?

Dux wrote:My unbiased opinion is summarized in : fuck the croats

Really. Why the Croats and not the Serbs? Are the Bosniaks blameless?

BucketHead wrote:

Dux wrote:My unbiased opinion is summarized in : fuck the croats

Really. Why the Croats and not the Serbs? Are the Bosniaks blameless?

There's no blameless in a war. I will write more extensively on why the Croats take the prize.

Gorbachev wrote:Didn't the Muslims side with the Nazis in WWI, FC? Wasn't that really at the root of this?

Some Muslims in WW2, yes. Others fought for the Partizans. And no, I wouldn't say that it was at the root of all this, it's just one more fucked up layer of Bosnian history.

Gorbachev wrote:Didn't the Muslims side with the Nazis in WWI, FC? Wasn't that really at the root of this?

Yeah, the Nazis in WW1 were real assholes. Luckily, Robert E Lee and the Confederacy teamed up with the Viet Cong to push the Redcoats out of the Americas long enough for the Sith to take full control of the Galactic Council. Can you imagine how bad it would've been if Stalin actually lost to Benedict Arnold at the Battle of Fallujah? Our world would be a whole helluva lot different today, friend.

In '53 he came aboard my ship, an aircraft carrier. We took him out for the day to show him American fire power. Our airplanes set the whole fuckin' ocean on fire with napalm and our guns booming loud. I saw him up close. He had make up smeared on his fat face. After that day he said he loved America.

Cool story Andy! Where was the carrier when that happened?

Fat Cat wrote:Cool story Andy! Where was the carrier when that happened?

In his bathtub, as he was coming down from the acid trip.

Mak, It was in Split, Yugo. We couldn't pull liberty there though. City was pristine, girls too pure and sailors too wild.

Kraj I know it hard for somebody like you to believe but I was there, aboard the USS Coral Sea, CVA 43 and it happened.

Andy78 wrote:Mak, It was in Split, Yugo. We couldn't pull liberty there though. City was pristine, girls too pure and sailors too wild.

Neat, I was in Split this past summer, and the big island out off the coast, Brač .

Andy78 wrote:Kraj I know it hard for somebody like you to believe but I was there, aboard the USS Coral Sea, CVA 43 and it happened.

Cool. One of my old buddies served aboard the Coral Sea long after you. He tells a pretty funny story about jumping off the flight deck into the ocean while in port once. He really just wanted to do it, but carefully got somebody to bet him $20 he wouldn't do it so he'd have a believable reason for the grilling he expected afterward.

Words of Milosovic in 1988:We Serbs will act in the interest of Serbia whether we do it in compliance with the constitution or not, whether we do it in compliance in the law or not, whether we do it in compliance with party statutes or not." Slobodan Milošević[12]

Sounds just like Barack Obama recently when bitching about the legislature's refusals to mind him.

If you're interested in ages old territorial and religious conflicts in Eastern Europe and the USSR, I recommend Eight Pieces of Empire-A 20 Year Journey Through the Soviet Collapse. Just finished it-it's a quick, first hand account of ethnic and religious squaring of accounts that took place once Moscow had other shit to worry about than keeping the peace.

lasalle wrote:If you're interested in ages old territorial and religious conflicts in Eastern Europe and the USSR, I recommend Eight Pieces of Empire-A 20 Year Journey Through the Soviet Collapse. Just finished it-it's a quick, first hand account of ethnic and religious squaring of accounts that took place once Moscow had other shit to worry about than keeping the peace.

Man if one can sort out the political evolution in that area from ancient times to present you could solve a Rubics cube blindfolded. I think the Russians gave up on dominating the area during Reagan's admin..

Schlegel wrote:

Andy78 wrote:Kraj I know it hard for somebody like you to believe but I was there, aboard the USS Coral Sea, CVA 43 and it happened.

Cool. One of my old buddies served aboard the Coral Sea long after you. He tells a pretty funny story about jumping off the flight deck into the ocean while in port once. He really just wanted to do it, but carefully got somebody to bet him $20 he wouldn't do it so he'd have a believable reason for the grilling he expected afterward.

Schlegel. I did that too. Ran off the deck edge elevator past the Marine guards and did a jacknife 80 feet down to the water. Didn't get in trouble though. We would stop the ship sometimes on Sunday afternoons and have swim call. Flight deck was a big no no. Supposed to only go in from hangar deck level which was 40 feet to the water. I was way crazier then than I am even now.