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Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:57 pm
by buckethead
Nappy: Do you have this dog training distilled to the point where you could give us newbies advice on how to approach ANY behavior situation with the combo of PR and PP like you mentioned
here?
Seeahill: Can you, as well, discuss how you used PR and PP in tandem to get recall in less than a week?
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:03 pm
by nafod
My wife's dog barks nonstop. Would love to crack the code on getting him to shut up.
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:05 pm
by Bobby
Give him unlimited access to a bitch?
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:08 pm
by Holland Oates
Bobby wrote:Give him unlimited access to a bitch?
He said it was his wife's.
*rimshot*
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:55 pm
by seeahill
Bucket,
Basically, I started with the dog on a long leash. Told him to "come" and pulled him to me, then praised him when he was at my heel.
That's the first thing: you have to show him what you want him to do. What the command "come" means.
Then I used an electronic collar. Let him run, called him. If he didn't turn, he got a mild shock. (Once the dog turns and moves in your direction there is no shock). The theory is that the dog realizes you are the safe zone. He does not get shocked when he is coming to you and is never shocked when he's at your heel.
Honestly, Dex got it in three or four days.
I seldom use the e-collar anymore. Maybe once every couple of months if he is getting lax. The dog actually likes the collar. It means a walk for sure and he does the happy dance when I bring it out.
I think there is a thread here in which The Nap Man instructed me on this.
I don't know about working with other behaviors. Dex doesn't bark, dig or chew. He loves kids and plays well with other dogs. I'm going hunt him next year and am working on "whoa," the command where the dog holds his position when he's pointing birds.
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:48 pm
by buckethead
Thanks Tim!
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:53 pm
by buckethead
Tim, what e-collar did you get?
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:17 am
by seeahill
Dogtra. Not Nappy's first choice and I bow to him in all things dog training, but this works for me. In addition to the quick shock and long shock, it's got a vibration thing, like what your phone does. After the first week of training you only have to use the vibe deal. Nappy thinks it's wimpy. A kind of capitulation to ... oh, I dunno, PETA or something. It works for me.
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:28 am
by Andy83
nafod wrote:My wife's dog barks nonstop. Would love to crack the code on getting him to shut up.
There is a "bark" collar that activates an instant shock to the dog's throat when he barks He will learn quickly as long as the collar is on him. Trouble is another dog's bark or other loud noise will set it off when your dog isn't barking.
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:11 am
by buckethead
Thanks
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:12 am
by Crust Bucket
Andy79 wrote:There is a "bark" collar that activates an instant shock to the dog's throat when he barks He will learn quickly as long as the collar is on him. Trouble is another dog's bark or other loud noise will set it off when your dog isn't barking.
Shit that sounds fucking cool

Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:52 am
by Thud
Andy79 wrote:nafod wrote:My wife's dog barks nonstop. Would love to crack the code on getting him to shut up.
There is a "bark" collar that activates an instant shock to the dog's throat when he barks He will learn quickly as long as the collar is on him. Trouble is another dog's bark or other loud noise will set it off when your dog isn't barking.
Sounds like the kind of thing nafod should put on his wife till she gets her dog in line.
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:06 pm
by nafod
Andy79 wrote:nafod wrote:My wife's dog barks nonstop. Would love to crack the code on getting him to shut up.
There is a "bark" collar that activates an instant shock to the dog's throat when he barks He will learn quickly as long as the collar is on him. Trouble is another dog's bark or other loud noise will set it off when your dog isn't barking.
The wife says she had one, and it didn't work. We have a shock collar on him to keep him in the yard, and that works great, so I'm waving the BS flag on her a little. Need to research it.
Lady across the street passed away and the property is now for sale, and so my dog gets to bark at everybody the realtor brings by, likely lowering the property value by thousands and annoying the shit out of me.
Thud, will take your plan under advisement.
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:11 pm
by nafod
Actually, having him getting shocked for property lines and for barking would probably be confusing to his walnut-sized brain. Maybe this instead for the barking...
Premier Gentle Spray Bark Control Pet Training System
http://www.petco.com/product/6659/Premi ... ystem-6659

Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:20 pm
by The Venerable Bogatir X
*sigh*
i see I have a little work to do here. My quarterly dog training contribution to IGx.
Been offline for several days but will start to tackle this later (in between finding post-worthy photos of Allison Sweeney, of course).
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:06 pm
by TerryB
dogs
blech
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:33 pm
by nafod
My nagging has motivated the wife to pick up one of the training aids that you recommended to seeahill, so I am stoked that we can get Sir Barksalot trained a little.
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:06 pm
by buckethead
High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:*sigh*
i see I have a little work to do here. My quarterly dog training contribution to IGx.
Been offline for several days but will start to tackle this later (in between finding post-worthy photos of Allison Sweeney, of course).
Good to hear. I was worried my Sean Connery digs had made you refuse to help
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:37 am
by Turdacious
nafod wrote:My wife's dog barks nonstop. Would love to crack the code on getting him to shut up.
Hook him on the idiot box.
http://dogtv.com/Page/whywatchdogtv
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:30 am
by The Venerable Bogatir X
BucketHead wrote:High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:*sigh*
i see I have a little work to do here. My quarterly dog training contribution to IGx.
Been offline for several days but will start to tackle this later (in between finding post-worthy photos of Allison Sweeney, of course).
Good to hear. I was worried my Sean Connery digs had made you refuse to help
Never, Devildog.
I need to ask my favorite Gyro eating forum boss to see if he can dig-up all of my dog shit *nyuck* that I've posted over the years here and see if we can dump all the links/topics on one thread and stash them somewhere for easy reference.
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:54 am
by The Venerable Bogatir X
BucketHead wrote:Nappy: Do you have this dog training distilled to the point where you could give us newbies advice on how to approach ANY behavior situation with the combo of PR and PP like you mentioned
here?
PR & PP are really for teaching desirable behaviors reliably. Here is an example everyone with a friendly dog can relate to:
-FedEx comes to the door and rings the door bell.
-Dog goes batshit crazy, barking and whipping shitties as you try to open the door.
-Dog barks at FedEx guy, jumps on him as you yell at your dog and apologize to the FedEx guy simultaneously, making excuses such as 'oh, he's just so friendly and loves when people come over' and other such blueberry-laden shit excuses. You get your sex toy shipment, close the door and then scream at the dog for misbehaving.
Now your dog thought this entire episode was fucking awesome. He got to:
-Bark like hell
-Whip shitties
-Jump on someone to get attention from them and from you via your yelling
-Got more attention from you when FedEx left when you screamed at him
All of that was more fun to him than lying around, licking his ass, which is what he was doing before the doorbell rang.
Your dog got a triple whammy of exactly what he wanted: attention; with the added bonus of some fun barking and shitty whipping.
*Most dogs are ignored unless they're doing something YOU perceive as 'bad' or giving YOU obedience commands. If the dog nudges you as you watch whatever your favorite Allison Sweeney show is and you pet him to get you to pay attention to him, he has conditioned you to follow HIS command (the nudge) to get HIS desired response (the petting vs. the ignoring).
Is the liquid shit getting cleared from your eyes and the rigid shit from your ears, yet?
I will finish this up with the solution and at least a partial answer to your question either later or tomorrow via editing this post.
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:39 am
by buckethead
Hey, don't caninepomorphize me
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:45 am
by The Venerable Bogatir X
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:57 pm
by Bobby
That spray thing to stop barking doesn`t work (not with any dogs I`ve had).Interesting stuff this!
Re: Positive Reinforcement and Positive Punishment
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:04 pm
by nafod
High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:] If the dog nudges you as you watch whatever your favorite Allison Sweeney show is and you pet him to get you to pay attention to him, he has conditioned you to follow HIS command (the nudge) to get HIS desired response (the petting vs. the ignoring).
I get pwned nightly