IGX

Anyone got knowledges to share on drum sets for a 10 y/o kid?

He's just starting out, nothing fancy needed. But what do I need to know when shopping?

Is this good value?

That be a great starter kit and will keep him happy through his first jam band or 2.

I might also suggest an electronic set. Now I used to look at electric kits as something only a Disco Fag could love but they have come along way. You can even get samples from the drum sounds of some of the greats and program them into the kit. On top of all that an electronic kit has an amp so he can turn down.

This way even when he starts jamming with buddies they wont have to crank their amps to keep up with him, so you can jam at about 1/4 of the volume or less than you would when you have an accustic drum set, a Bass and Guitar.

And you can add effects.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... O0BEPICMAA

No idea on a set for a kid -my first set was a full-sized Pearl.

I don't think there's anything in particular I'd recommend for a kid, I would just look for something that works/affordable more than anything.

If he sticks with it, enjoys it, progresses, etc., then it's time to think about a full blown set, and choices become much more meaningful.

Oh, and, if you're going to be the parent to a successful drummer, realize upfront that it's a money pit and fucking annoying to anybody who isn't doing the drumming.

I never liked electric sets, for what it's worth, but an electric set does offer two advantages: less space required and you can always slap on a pair of headphones and get rid of everything except wood sticks on rubber.

I preferred leaving a set of silencers on one set permanently:



If he really digs drumming in general, get him a teacher that knows his shit about counting, and get him involved with a symphony or wind ensemble so he has a better understanding of percussion and music. It is literally mind-fucking-blowing how many kids involved with music are unable to count out complicated sheet music on the fly. I had several opportunities afforded to me simply because I had a mentor who made me count out everything before I got to play anything.

Being able to sight read through complicated sheet music got me in with a bunch of groups ahead of when I would have been actually qualified. Instructors love it.

Good luck, man.

Thanks for the help guys.

The electronic drums certainly have their advantages, I just wonder if they're appropriate when his lessons are analog; the placement being different and all.

Those silencer pads appear indispensable.

I have no idea how good his teacher is, he's just going to the guy assigned at the music school in town. But my son likes him, which is no small feat these days.

I was just gifted a partial set of Tama drums, which seem well enough made, but I'm still missing cymbals and a bass drum pedal (have the drum). I have a feeling those replacements will cost more than this full cheapo kit.

I'm gonna hit a music store after work tomorrow, I'll see what they say.

Thud wrote:I'm gonna hit a music store after work tomorrow, I'll see what they say.

The 40-something guy who makes $28k/year selling instruments will say, "Now here's a mark!"

protobuilder wrote:

Thud wrote:I'm gonna hit a music store after work tomorrow, I'll see what they say.

The 40-something guy who makes $28k/year selling instruments will say, "Now here's a mark!"

Knowing I can get a full beginners set for $200 puts a lid on how much I'll spend locally for parts.

If I'm his big score for the week he's due for a demotion.

Don't skimp on a bass drum pedal. For me, the bass drum pedal is the most important part of the kit, equipment-wise, as far as making it playable. I prefer the basic DW pedals. I think they have some that aren't too outrageous.
Tama is a name brand. They make a number of different levels of drums but all of them are fine for a beginner. For cymbals, don't be afraid to go used. You can save a good amount that way. You don't need many. A set of Hi-Hats, a crash and a ride is all. If you're looking to save some, just go with the hi-hats and a crash.
By the way, the set on Amazon is a complete piece of crap. If you're really good at tuning and you get a nice set of heads you may get the drums to only sound bad as opposed to incredibly shitty. The cymbals will sound no better than a coffee can and will probably crack pretty quickly.
I know drums can be expensive, but make sure that whatever you get sounds at least halfway decent and works so the kit is actually enjoyable to play. If not, whatever you have spent will just be wasted anyway because your son won't want to play it.

I second the "go used" recommendation on cymbals, too. I spent a few years picking up as many from my shop as I could, used, just to get a taste of various flavors out there so I knew what I liked and what I wanted to spend money on down the road.

Oh, and a neat trick if you decide to piece together various sets and want them to match:

Make spandex tubes that slide over each drum, with some cutouts to show the chrome hardware. I had about a dozen different fabric designs, so I could piece together exactly what I wanted for a show and have everything match.

ok, lets say i go used. are there any rules of thumb to know one isn't buying garbage, without over buying for a kid who might ditch the whole idea in 6 months?

How about some electronic drums with headphones? That way you won't be ready to kill yourself in a month.

Just look for good brands. Sabian, Zildjian, Paiste for cymbals. Look to see if there are any cracks. General sizes for cymbals are 13-14" for hi-hats, 16-18 for crashes, 20 for rides. Smaller is cheaper and also less loud so you can take that into consideration. All of those brands have different lines of quality but you know you'll be getting something at least pretty good if you go with them. It's been a while since I've shopped for this stuff price wise, but if you look on line at Musicians Friend or any number of online sites you can easily find what stuff is going for new. Maybe 30-50% less for used depending.

Okay, back from the store.

First off, proto, the guy wasn't a day over 38, so ha on you!

The guy says my stuff is probably 15-20 year old mid-line Tama. Says I should re-skin what I've got and add what I need. Says the shells and hardware are well better than starter set stuff. Says cymbals are the weak link on the starter sets. However, sees signs of water damage on the snare drum that gives pause. I must check all drums for rust and swelling.

Basic price break down to start would be:

~$60 to refurbish snare drum: new surfaces on top & bottom, a new ring (current one is overtightened and warped) and new strands on bottom.

$65 for a basic bass pedal.

$165 for a SRB cymbal kit consisting of hi hat, ride & crash. I didn't ask exact sizes, I'd expect on the small crappy side.

After that I could re-skin the other drums and add a throne if I care to.

Sound fair? I don't want to over spend nor over skimp, but again, this is for a 10 year old who might well ditch it all in no time.

Also, I asked his opinion on electronic drums. He thinks acoustic are better for learning.

Say the electronic ones are lively, bouncy and sound good whatever you do, whereas acoustic take work to find the right timbre. Says it's way easier to transition from acoustic to electronic than vice versa.

Electronic is shit for learning how to be a drummer. Real skins are the only way to go.

Sounds like fair pricing on the work, as mentioned earlier drums are a money pit any way you slice it.

Also, pick up lighter sticks to learn with, as it makes controlling a more important skill to master and will carry over well if your kid decides to try other percussion down the road (timpani, etc.).

I was a sucker for 5A's, oval tip, solid wood -no goofy fucking plastic tipped sticks, please. And no "rock" sticks that are black with white tips. Those are for queers.

So it's been almost a year now...

How do you know if you've got a good teacher?

We went through two quite quickly because, a) they were too rigorous to start with (sending him home to study and practice a written out Octopus's Garden on his second lesson when he couldn't read a note) b) we didn't love the studio they worked for. Then we found the current guy, who we like much better, he's cheaper, and he comes to us.

Basically my son likes the guy a lot, he's a super guy, and a very good "working drummer" himself. (He's in his 50s and gigging and teaching are his livelihood). My main concern is that my son (turns 11 tomorrow) stays motivated, which is not a given. Getting him to do his 20 mins of practice a day can be like pulling teeth, so it's important that he enjoys his lessons, which he does.

But, a year in and his reading of music is still very iffy, and he can't do basic drum rolls.

When I was a kid I only got about 6 lessons before quitting, but all I had were sticks and a pad, and I started on basic rudiments. My kid is the opposite, he's got a full kit, knows some beats (some pretty funky, me thinks), but hasn't learned to do a basic "and the winner is..." drum roll after a year.

My overriding thought is that if he can retain interest without quitting, and keeps up at the current pace for a couple more years, he'll be well poised should he become passionate about things at 13 - 15 y/o. So I really need to lay back and let things take their course. It's not like I want him to become a pro or anything, he just has few hobbies (other than Minecraft) and I want him to apply himself at whatever it is he chooses.

But is asking that he learn some basic rudiments and stick work too much? I asked once a few moths back and he was taught the para diddle, but nothing since. Is this normal?

Some true knowledges here. I decided to save my sanity and got a cajon instead.

Had a bizzaro experience at a wedding two wkends ago.

The wedding was at a restaurant. After the cocktail hour, the wedding party cleared out of the bar area and moved to where dinner was going to be. And a small band set up in the bar area – I mean small, a piano player and a guy with a couple drums, and a chick singer. Plus one other chick sitting in the crowd facing them, who could have been a girlfriend or manager or who knows. They were doing light jazzy kind of stuff, to drink to. The drum guy had a really small setup: a box instrument that he sat on, and played either with his heel or a pedal (I didn't see): then a snare in front of him with a cymbal, and something else to his left. He was a little older, maybe in his 50s.

So my 4-yr-old son has to go potty, and we leave the dining room and come rampaging thru the bar area on our way to the bathroom. And he comes to a dead stop and just gapes at the band. I'm holding his hand, and we stand there watching the band. The drummer catches my eye and beckons us over. We go up to the side of the little raised "stage", so we're not in front of the singer, and the drummer indicates my son and asks me, "Is he a drummer?"

Bewildering question. I stammer that the kid's 4, he isn't anything yet, what do you mean? And the guy tells me to have my son walk up behind him onto the stage and sit with him and play. I tell him that's awesome, we want to, but before we do anything else the kid needs to go pee. So the drummer says fine, when you come back walk up to this side and come up behind me over there, and I'll have him sit with me and play.

So we go and come back, and the group has finished their song and the chick has got off the stage. The guy makes room for my kid on the corner of the thing he's sitting on, gives him a drumstick, and he & the piano guy launch into an instrumental. The drummer has my son keep time on a cymbal. A couple times he tells him to slow down, and finally (for the last ~half of the piece) he grabs my kid's fist and makes him keep the beat he wants.

After the music is over, the guy talks to me. He says that drummers are born, not made. He says that if my kid is one, "And I think he is," then we should act accordingly. I ask, well what should we do. He says, get the kid some drumsticks, no need to buy drums, for now he can use boxes and we replace as needed, but let him play with them. Don't force him, but if he uses the sticks try to encourage a correct grip and striking motion. Play some interesting music at home, like Stravinsky or Bartok. Watch Youtube videos of drummers. When he's x years old (I forget what x was, maybe 7?) then find a good teacher.

Oh and this was interesting. He said, if I want to give my son a ~4 year head start on other drummers, sign him up for tap dancing at age 5 or whatever. He said that our culture is the only one where musicians use their feet for percussion, and it comes from tap dancing, and it takes young drummers forever to learn to do it.

I thanked the guy a ton, and we went back to our table and finished dinner. I explained to my wife some of what happened. As the wedding reception was winding down and we were heading out thru the bar area, I had my kid take a tenner over and put it in the band's tip jar (that was all I had). And we went home.

So – WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT??!? Is the dude Obi Won Kenobi, he stares at my son and just knows "the Force is strong in this one"? Is he a crackpot? Because we weren't doing anything, my son was just standing there gaping. There was no external thing to indicate any musical skill. My son wasn't moving at all. Is it a drummer thing, that old drummers are constantly aware of opportunities to encourage young drummers along?

The whole thing was intriguing as hell. We bought the drum sticks, of course. My son played with them for 2 mins, then moved on to something else. We haven't taken any of the other steps, yet. I have to say, I hope it's all true. I would love for my kid to be musical, to play an instrument and love it. I think that's a really cool part of life. It would be great to be able to help him along in it, give him a good grounding. Even if it was all bullshit, it was a harmless and wildly fun 5 or 10 mins at an otherwise boring wedding.

What are the chances that there are something to this drummer's perception? And how was his advice?

Eh, hard to tell. If drummers are "born" they'll find out sooner or later on their own.

Can't keep their feet from tapping, playing with pencils and pens, always being able to find a baseline in music, etc.

I think it's much, much easier to spot kids that are definitely not drummers than it is to spot future prodigies.

Oh, and for anybody keeping track: I've been playing with a Roland electric kit for a while, now. TD-9K2;



I despise electric sets, but it's been a necessity here in a little place with close neighbors. The mesh heads are excellent, although small, which is to be expected, I suppose.

Action and response on pedals and cymbals is good, rim sensors are so-so. You can manipulate each drum and cymbal with a billion different options, and then actually tweak material type, head-tightening, size, depth, thickness of shell, etc. You can really set it up to be any sound you want or need.

I like it for being able to practice without disturbing anybody.

Would never, ever, in a million years use it to play live or with somebody else, but it works for practicing in a pinch.

JimZipCode wrote: So – WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT??!? Is the dude Obi Won Kenobi, he stares at my son and just knows "the Force is strong in this one"? Is he a crackpot? Because we weren't doing anything, my son was just standing there gaping. There was no external thing to indicate any musical skill. My son wasn't moving at all. Is it a drummer thing, that old drummers are constantly aware of opportunities to encourage young drummers along?

My guess is that he teaches and keeps an eye out for kids with interest. He probably noticed your son gave more attention to him/drums than any other instrument/performer. If he has a good manner with kids, and it sounds like he does, maybe he'd make a good teacher.

To simplify my question, are rolls and stick work more the domain of jazz and marching band music, with rock more interested in the beats?

I know some of the rock drummers I respect the most have a strong foundation in jazz.

Thud wrote:But is asking that he learn some basic rudiments and stick work too much? I asked once a few moths back and he was taught the para diddle, but nothing since. Is this normal?

Speaking as someone with extensive drum playing experience, he should've already figured out blast beats, gravity blasts, and grind beats and how to mix them altogether into some hellacious death metal mix.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6-57Mpt3ss[/youtube]

protobuilder wrote:

Thud wrote:But is asking that he learn some basic rudiments and stick work too much? I asked once a few moths back and he was taught the para diddle, but nothing since. Is this normal?

Speaking as someone with extensive drum playing experience, he should've already figured out blast beats, gravity blasts, and grind beats and how to mix them altogether into some hellacious death metal mix.

I've seen him do this belly down on the floor with his fists and feet while crying. Somehow, telling him to get off the computer and do homework brings out his inner genius.