SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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It used to be the case that those who know don't say, and those who say don't know.
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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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It still is....mostly.
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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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Shapecharge wrote:You don't here much of this from the Delta boys. I'm gonna give the guy who wrote "Kill Bin Laden" a break since that was a compelling story. And Eric Haney gets a break just cuz.

Trooper though Haney was an ass and he lied about a lot of shit in that book. Said Haney was not welcome around other D-Boys and Delta HQ.




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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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Let's see:

The Administration said all kinds of stuff as soon as that raid was over. Scoring political capital.

They should have only said " An American Special Missions Unit carried out a raid and killed Bin Laden" instead of mentioning SEALS, SEAL 6 or Dev Gru, let alone all the other details. Should not have said shit about the 160th or the special Stealth Blackhawks used either

A Hollywood movie about the Op, with Administration giving the filmmakers all kinds of info. (And I am watching a pretty good made for TV one on Nat geo right now.) You think no one got paid making those?

Then there is a book about the raid by a guy who said he was on it. (It's a good read.) he got paid.

All kinds of people getting paid, making points and making bones with that raid.

Laws? Shit, i see a bunch of bean ass motherfuckers who broke our laws just to be here and I don;t see anyone doing shit about that. You pull up in a ruck at the 7-11 down the street and the fuckers swamp you like whores on Friday.

I'm hearing high speed vets on both sides of the fence about this man.

My opinion is that if he is not giving out techniques we can't already find out about or Op Sec but is just putting his name out there for history and a payday then not a Goddamn thing should happen to him legally. We don't know if he tried to clear a book with the DOD and was shit on after Marcus Latrell, Kris Kyle and Unknown all wrote books on things that have happened in what is really an ongoing conflict?

Not like he is not putting a huge target on his back for every Jihadi and Jihadi wannabe squatting in the US? if he;s not telling anyone else's story, seems he's the only guy who might end up paying for talking.

He did not do his full 20? Fuck he did 14 at the tippity tip of the spear, maybe there should be a sliding scale of compensation for those who's speed was higher than even other combatants?Llet alone all the split tails who have wrote their " Taking care of my cramps while holding an M-16 but I never actually dodged a bullet or shot anyone." books.

He did an interveiw and he might write a book . Well so did a lot of guys in SF, SEALs, Delta, 22SAS, 14 DET

I'm not saying he's a great guy for coming out now and I respect the feelings of those who are upset about him if they are ON HIS LEVEL but I think the rest of us should either move along to something else, or kick back and listen to his tale. We don't give enough credit in our society to those who fight. First hero they made in this shit was a chick who got captured and fuck all was said about the guy in her unit who was found dead with empty mags around him and multiple bullet and bayonet holes in him, the guy that tried to cover her retreat. He was the fucking hero. we don;t know his name but we all know who Jessica Lynch is.

And no one but some Marines talk of Brian Kontosh, who fucking pulled a stunt out of fucking Rambo and then again pulled some amazing shit in Fallujah. ( I know 2 guys who know him, says he's low key and unassuming unless he's training others for combat. )

That man belongs in the Audie Murphey / Dan Daily Club.

Seeahill, don't you make your living getting people to talk about things?

There are worse things.




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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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Lewis Medlock wrote: How many seals that are around 35 years old to 50 years old first thought of being seals because of Marcinko.
I've heard people in the military say shit like " No one in the service reads those kind of books, they are for civilians" about Marcinko's early books, Beckwith's and many Vietnam SF and Recon books.

Then I went to Trooper's house, a guy that has been there, done that and ran Ops like the one we are all talking about now and fought the war on terror and other shitbags before it had a name or few gave a fuck and he had about every fucking book like that I ever read on his shelf. He just was not interested in writing one himself " Even if I wanted to, it would take forever just to let the powers at be go through it and take stuff out." he just wanted to get known for making martial arts videos and books and enjoy the fact that he can spend the rest of his holidays with his wife instead of hunting some Serbian asshole or getting shot at by Skinnys in Africa.

Fuck I wish he got more than 5 years of that.




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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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Brian Chontosh.

The President of the United States
Takes Pleasure in Presenting
The Navy Cross
To

Brian R. Chontosh
First Lieutenant, United States Marine Corps

For Services as Set Forth in the Following Citation:

For extraordinary heroism as Combined Anti-Armor Platoon Commander, Weapons Company, 3rd Battalion, 5th Marines, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force in support of Operation IRAQI FREEDOM on 25 March 2003. While leading his platoon north on Highway I toward Ad Diwaniyah, First Lieutenant Chontosh's platoon moved into a coordinated ambush of mortars, rocket propelled grenades, and automatic weapons fire. With coalition tanks blocking the road ahead, he realized his platoon was caught in a kill zone.

He had his driver move the vehicle through a breach along his flank, where he was immediately taken under fire from an entrenched machine gun. Without hesitation, First Lieutenant Chontosh ordered the driver to advance directly at the enemy position enabling his .50 caliber machine gunner to silence the enemy.

He then directed his driver into the enemy trench, where he exited his vehicle and began to clear the trench with an M16A2 service rifle and 9 millimeter pistol. His ammunition depleted, First Lieutenant Chontosh, with complete disregard for his safety, twice picked up discarded enemy rifles and continued his ferocious attack.

When a Marine following him found an enemy rocket propelled grenade launcher, First Lieutenant Chontosh used it to destroy yet another group of enemy soldiers. When his audacious attack ended, he had cleared over 200 meters of the enemy trench, killing more than 20 enemy soldiers and wounding several others.[1]

By his outstanding display of decisive leadership, unlimited courage in the face of heavy enemy fire, and utmost devotion to duty, First Lieutenant Chontosh reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service.
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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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Chontosh retired last year. He was the guest of honor at my Marine Corps ball back in 2007. He seemed very cool and level headed.


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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

Post by ccrow »

WildGorillaMan wrote:It used to be the case that those who know don't say, and those who say don't know.
Now that you mention it there is an excellent chance he is lying.
But when I stand in front of the mirror and really look, I wonder: What the fuck happened here? Jesus Christ. What a beating!

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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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DARTH wrote:
Shapecharge wrote:You don't here much of this from the Delta boys. I'm gonna give the guy who wrote "Kill Bin Laden" a break since that was a compelling story. And Eric Haney gets a break just cuz.

Trooper though Haney was an ass and he lied about a lot of shit in that book. Said Haney was not welcome around other D-Boys and Delta HQ.
Haney was On TV numerous the first six or so months after 9/11/01. He flat said that OBL was killed at Tora Bora in January 2002. Giving him the benefit
of the doubt I'm guessing that Haney assumed that OBL was in one of the caves that were heavily bombed during that operation.
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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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For being a bunch of pasty-fleshed nerds with muffin tops and thick glasses, our submarine bubbas do some crazy bold shit while dragging around nucular reactors and yet manage to keep their mouths shut.
Don’t believe everything you think.

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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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^^ True that. In the Cold War, when they went under the deep, they were at a state of war.

I worked with a guy who did 6 years in Ohio class boats. Some of the shit he described makes a Tom Clancy book look tame.




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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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Recall that it was our wonderful Commander In Chief who was the first to announce and blast the air waves that the raid was by SEAL team 6 and that HE gave the order and that it was all about HIM. Therefore, HE is the hero.....er uh....SHITBAG as usual.
Obama's narcissism and arrogance is only superseded by his naivete and stupidity.


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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

Post by climber511 »

I don't care much about him telling his story (as long as it's absolutely true - there seems to be some question as to the "kill" shot or shots). But I do have a problem with being upset about not getting a pension in less than 20. If 20 is the rule (and he knew that ahead of time, everyone does) - then 20 it is. If they want to change the rule for certain groups or people, then fine, but that's a very slippery slope - where do you draw that line - everything is the military can be high risk.


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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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I've been struggling with this a little bit. On the one hand if there's truly no secret information being disclosed then really what we have here is an unwritten organizational based set of rules which appears to apply to some but not to others. If the powers that be are serious about keeping all this specops business secret and the profession is founded on the concept of the "quiet professional" then actually do the things necessary to make it so. How 'bout this: get rid of all the insignias, badges, tabs, berets etc. and our specops warfighters can walk the earth like the rest of us poor unworthy unwashed masses. Put together a contract which must be signed or what-the-fuck-ever that forbids the revelation of anything, including said membership in the secret club, FOREVER. You want to be part of the cool guy insider group then here's what you've got to do. So you become a pinned SEAL after BUDS and SQT and everyone knows who and what your are but hey, don't ask me anything because I can't tell you about it. I find this a bit duplicitous. Why are some of these fellows hailed as heros and movies made of their exploits and here's these two Team 6 guys getting beat down? Tell me why Chris Kyle and Marcus Luttrell get a free pass and these other two are pariahs in their own units where they served with honor and distinction? All signs point to the movie "Zero Dark Thirty" being vetted by the Pentagon/CIA. And as the one SEAL who was on 60 Minutes for a second time last week said, why is it okay for generals, and DOD secretaries to write books but an enlisted man not so much? Hey brothers I'm just asking.


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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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Shapecharge wrote:why is it okay for generals, and DOD secretaries to write books but an enlisted man not so much? Hey brothers I'm just asking.
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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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Andy81 wrote:Recall that it was our wonderful Commander In Chief who was the first to announce and blast the air waves that the raid was by SEAL team 6 and that HE gave the order and that it was all about HIM. Therefore, HE is the hero.....er uh....SHITBAG as usual.
Odd how recall works in such matters.
Good evening. Tonight, I can report to the American people and to the world that the United States has conducted an operation that killed Osama bin Laden, the leader of al Qaeda, and a terrorist who’s responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent men, women, and children.

It was nearly 10 years ago that a bright September day was darkened by the worst attack on the American people in our history. The images of 9/11 are seared into our national memory -- hijacked planes cutting through a cloudless September sky; the Twin Towers collapsing to the ground; black smoke billowing up from the Pentagon; the wreckage of Flight 93 in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, where the actions of heroic citizens saved even more heartbreak and destruction.

And yet we know that the worst images are those that were unseen to the world. The empty seat at the dinner table. Children who were forced to grow up without their mother or their father. Parents who would never know the feeling of their child’s embrace. Nearly 3,000 citizens taken from us, leaving a gaping hole in our hearts.

On September 11, 2001, in our time of grief, the American people came together. We offered our neighbors a hand, and we offered the wounded our blood. We reaffirmed our ties to each other, and our love of community and country. On that day, no matter where we came from, what God we prayed to, or what race or ethnicity we were, we were united as one American family.

We were also united in our resolve to protect our nation and to bring those who committed this vicious attack to justice. We quickly learned that the 9/11 attacks were carried out by al Qaeda -- an organization headed by Osama bin Laden, which had openly declared war on the United States and was committed to killing innocents in our country and around the globe. And so we went to war against al Qaeda to protect our citizens, our friends, and our allies.

Over the last 10 years, thanks to the tireless and heroic work of our military and our counterterrorism professionals, we’ve made great strides in that effort. We’ve disrupted terrorist attacks and strengthened our homeland defense. In Afghanistan, we removed the Taliban government, which had given bin Laden and al Qaeda safe haven and support. And around the globe, we worked with our friends and allies to capture or kill scores of al Qaeda terrorists, including several who were a part of the 9/11 plot.

Yet Osama bin Laden avoided capture and escaped across the Afghan border into Pakistan. Meanwhile, al Qaeda continued to operate from along that border and operate through its affiliates across the world.

And so shortly after taking office, I directed Leon Panetta, the director of the CIA, to make the killing or capture of bin Laden the top priority of our war against al Qaeda, even as we continued our broader efforts to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat his network.

Then, last August, after years of painstaking work by our intelligence community, I was briefed on a possible lead to bin Laden. It was far from certain, and it took many months to run this thread to ground. I met repeatedly with my national security team as we developed more information about the possibility that we had located bin Laden hiding within a compound deep inside of Pakistan. And finally, last week, I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action, and authorized an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice.

Today, at my direction, the United States launched a targeted operation against that compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. A small team of Americans carried out the operation with extraordinary courage and capability. No Americans were harmed. They took care to avoid civilian casualties. After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body.

For over two decades, bin Laden has been al Qaeda’s leader and symbol, and has continued to plot attacks against our country and our friends and allies. The death of bin Laden marks the most significant achievement to date in our nation’s effort to defeat al Qaeda.

Yet his death does not mark the end of our effort. There’s no doubt that al Qaeda will continue to pursue attacks against us. We must –- and we will -- remain vigilant at home and abroad.

As we do, we must also reaffirm that the United States is not –- and never will be -– at war with Islam. I’ve made clear, just as President Bush did shortly after 9/11, that our war is not against Islam. Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader; he was a mass murderer of Muslims. Indeed, al Qaeda has slaughtered scores of Muslims in many countries, including our own. So his demise should be welcomed by all who believe in peace and human dignity.

Over the years, I’ve repeatedly made clear that we would take action within Pakistan if we knew where bin Laden was. That is what we’ve done. But it’s important to note that our counterterrorism cooperation with Pakistan helped lead us to bin Laden and the compound where he was hiding. Indeed, bin Laden had declared war against Pakistan as well, and ordered attacks against the Pakistani people.

Tonight, I called President Zardari, and my team has also spoken with their Pakistani counterparts. They agree that this is a good and historic day for both of our nations. And going forward, it is essential that Pakistan continue to join us in the fight against al Qaeda and its affiliates.

The American people did not choose this fight. It came to our shores, and started with the senseless slaughter of our citizens. After nearly 10 years of service, struggle, and sacrifice, we know well the costs of war. These efforts weigh on me every time I, as Commander-in-Chief, have to sign a letter to a family that has lost a loved one, or look into the eyes of a service member who’s been gravely wounded.

So Americans understand the costs of war. Yet as a country, we will never tolerate our security being threatened, nor stand idly by when our people have been killed. We will be relentless in defense of our citizens and our friends and allies. We will be true to the values that make us who we are. And on nights like this one, we can say to those families who have lost loved ones to al Qaeda’s terror: Justice has been done.

Tonight, we give thanks to the countless intelligence and counterterrorism professionals who’ve worked tirelessly to achieve this outcome. The American people do not see their work, nor know their names. But tonight, they feel the satisfaction of their work and the result of their pursuit of justice.

We give thanks for the men who carried out this operation, for they exemplify the professionalism, patriotism, and unparalleled courage of those who serve our country. And they are part of a generation that has borne the heaviest share of the burden since that September day.

Finally, let me say to the families who lost loved ones on 9/11 that we have never forgotten your loss, nor wavered in our commitment to see that we do whatever it takes to prevent another attack on our shores.

And tonight, let us think back to the sense of unity that prevailed on 9/11. I know that it has, at times, frayed. Yet today’s achievement is a testament to the greatness of our country and the determination of the American people.

The cause of securing our country is not complete. But tonight, we are once again reminded that America can do whatever we set our mind to. That is the story of our history, whether it’s the pursuit of prosperity for our people, or the struggle for equality for all our citizens; our commitment to stand up for our values abroad, and our sacrifices to make the world a safer place.

Let us remember that we can do these things not just because of wealth or power, but because of who we are: one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. May God bless you. And may God bless the United States of America.
WildGorillaMan wrote:Enthusiasm combined with no skill whatsoever can sometimes carry the day.


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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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Yes, Pheadrus, it is odd. You've cited one version of that speech But SEAL team 6 praise came from Obama's lips early on after that raid.
Obama's narcissism and arrogance is only superseded by his naivete and stupidity.

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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

Post by nafod »

dead man walking wrote:
Shapecharge wrote:why is it okay for generals, and DOD secretaries to write books but an enlisted man not so much? Hey brothers I'm just asking.
just because we live in a democracy doesn't mean we don't have royalty
From a more practical standpoint, they may well have original classification authority or be the boss of the guy who has the authority and so they aren't leaking.
Don’t believe everything you think.


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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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Andy81 wrote:Yes, Pheadrus, it is odd. You've cited one version of that speech But SEAL team 6 praise came from Obama's lips early on after that raid.
BOOM
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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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How can you tell who was or is a Navy Seal? Do not worry in the first 5 minutes of talking to them they will TELL you. Write a book do not write a book who cares?

To me if someone has ever used the phrase " well when I was down range" in a post on this board they should shut up.


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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

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Andy81 wrote:Yes, Pheadrus, it is odd. You've cited one version of that speech But SEAL team 6 praise came from Obama's lips early on after that raid.
He didn't break the news.

Back after the raid, people were complaining that Obama didn't specifically thank the group that did the raid. Fox went on about it for weeks after the event.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/0 ... dly/185796
WildGorillaMan wrote:Enthusiasm combined with no skill whatsoever can sometimes carry the day.

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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

Post by WildGorillaMan »

Meanwhile, most Canadians have never even heard of JTF2. In fact, I feel vaguely uneasy even posting this comment.
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Re: SEAL speaking out. Shitbag or Hero?!

Post by Andy83 »

Phaedrus wrote:
Andy81 wrote:Yes, Pheadrus, it is odd. You've cited one version of that speech But SEAL team 6 praise came from Obama's lips early on after that raid.
He didn't break the news.

Back after the raid, people were complaining that Obama didn't specifically thank the group that did the raid. Fox went on about it for weeks after the event.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/0 ... dly/185796
Joe Biden...New York Times...first leak to public.
Obama's narcissism and arrogance is only superseded by his naivete and stupidity.

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