Trumpling the Truth

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Turdacious
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

Post by Turdacious »

JimZipCode wrote:
TerryB wrote:Everyone can breathe a sigh of relief that the Republicans didn't screw up Obamacare, and things will just get better now.
The Republicans have been screwing up Obamacare for years. Defunding the risk corridors, and then exclaiming "Look, premiums are going to go up!" Yeah, no shit.
Defunding the risk corridors didn't cause the issue, setting the subsidies so low that healthy people and lower income sick people were priced out of the market did.

The risk corridor problem is primarily on the Obama administration and HHS. HHS didn't forecast the 2014 shortfalls, didn't insist on higher rates in 2015 to cover the impending 2014 shortfalls, and didn't insist on higher rates to stabilize the market in 2016. They left rate setting to state insurance commissions while changing rules last minute which both lowered revenue and raised claims (something neither insurance companies or state insurance commissions could forecast).

Republicans didn't help the situation by defunding the risk corridors (which HHS didn't have enough money to pay on a timely basis anyway), but they didn't cause it. The Obama administration could have fast tracked the risk corridor lawsuits to SCOTUS, but they actively slowed them down.

Bad design + bad implementation = train wreck.
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Herv100
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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Trump "supported" the bill the minimum amount so RINOs like Ryan can't say he went against them.
Now we'll get either a full repeal or a market based plan at least by the 2018 elections.
Good result.
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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if they would have had a vote, dems would have been smart to vote YES.
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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12th golfing trip in the nine weeks since being elected...
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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Testiclaw wrote:12th golfing trip in the nine weeks since being elected...
At a cost to the taxpayers of roughly $3 mil per -- some portion of which goes into Trump's pockets as the owner at Mir-a-lago (but I don't know what portion).





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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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JimZipCode wrote:
Testiclaw wrote:12th golfing trip in the nine weeks since being elected...
At a cost to the taxpayers of roughly $3 mil per -- some portion of which goes into Trump's pockets as the owner at Mir-a-lago (but I don't know what portion).





"Nearly 1 out of every 3 days he has been president, Trump has visited a Trump property"

Yep. Grifters gonna grift.
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Shafpocalypse Now
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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Dan Carlin hit the nail on the head when he said "We need healthcare, NOT access to insurance"...the insurance companies and their lobbiests are the ones who have fucked healthcare up royally, and, despite the claims they are losing money hand over fist, there is actually some evidence this is just sketchy accounting practices.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/he ... 10116.html

This link is meh meh so-so, but it can lead you down the right paths to see it.


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Re: Trumpling the Truth

Post by TerryB »

Obama said the risk corridors would be budget neutral.

Republicans put language in the budget to be sure they would be.

What's the problem?
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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TerryB wrote:Obama said the risk corridors would be budget neutral.

Republicans put language in the budget to be sure they would be.
No, they put language in the budget to insure if the budget wasn't neutral, that the US Government would not make good on its obligation.

Risk is adversity/positivity of outcome x probability of outcome. What the congress really did is jack up the adversity side of the outcome, distorting the whole risk thing. The market shall now speak.
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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Nice quote...
“I, for example,” says the nameless narrator in Fyodor Dostoevsky’s “Notes From Underground (1864),” “would not be the least bit surprised if suddenly, out of the blue, amid the universal future reasonableness, some gentleman of ignoble or, better, of retrograde and jeering physiognomy, should emerge, set his arms akimbo, and say to us all: ‘Well, gentlemen, why don’t we reduce all this reasonableness to dust with one good kick, for the sole purpose of sending all these logarithms to the devil and living once more according to our own stupid will!’ That would still be nothing, but what is offensive is that he’d be sure to find followers: that’s how man is arranged.”
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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nafod Wasserman-Schultz wrote:
TerryB wrote:Obama said the risk corridors would be budget neutral.

Republicans put language in the budget to be sure they would be.
No, they put language in the budget to insure if the budget wasn't neutral, that the US Government would not make good on its obligation.

Risk is adversity/positivity of outcome x probability of outcome. What the congress really did is jack up the adversity side of the outcome, distorting the whole risk thing. The market shall now speak.
The market has been speaking for years. The individual market was failing before that budget language was approved by Congress and the POTUS, and failing after.
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Herv100
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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I read Trump is the first president that greets every single White House guest at the door.
Good dude.
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

Post by TerryB »

nafod wrote:Nice quote...
“I, for example,” says the nameless narrator in Fyodor Dostoevsky’s “Notes From Underground (1864),” “would not be the least bit surprised if suddenly, out of the blue, amid the universal future reasonableness, some gentleman of ignoble or, better, of retrograde and jeering physiognomy, should emerge, set his arms akimbo, and say to us all: ‘Well, gentlemen, why don’t we reduce all this reasonableness to dust with one good kick, for the sole purpose of sending all these logarithms to the devil and living once more according to our own stupid will!’ That would still be nothing, but what is offensive is that he’d be sure to find followers: that’s how man is arranged.”
He predicted this!! Amazing!
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

Turdacious wrote:
nafod Wasserman-Schultz wrote:
TerryB wrote:Obama said the risk corridors would be budget neutral.

Republicans put language in the budget to be sure they would be.
No, they put language in the budget to insure if the budget wasn't neutral, that the US Government would not make good on its obligation.

Risk is adversity/positivity of outcome x probability of outcome. What the congress really did is jack up the adversity side of the outcome, distorting the whole risk thing. The market shall now speak.
The market has been speaking for years. The individual market was failing before that budget language was approved by Congress and the POTUS, and failing after.
This is a popular talking point on the right, but the CBO says otherwise.
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.

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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Turdacious wrote:
nafod Wasserman-Schultz wrote:
TerryB wrote:Obama said the risk corridors would be budget neutral.

Republicans put language in the budget to be sure they would be.
No, they put language in the budget to insure if the budget wasn't neutral, that the US Government would not make good on its obligation.

Risk is adversity/positivity of outcome x probability of outcome. What the congress really did is jack up the adversity side of the outcome, distorting the whole risk thing. The market shall now speak.
The market has been speaking for years. The individual market was failing before that budget language was approved by Congress and the POTUS, and failing after.
This is a popular talking point on the right, but the CBO says otherwise.
The risk corridor change annoyed the major insurers, but hammered the small and mid-sized insurers who were dumb enough to participate in the individual market. With a few notable exceptions (like the California market), there are problems in the market that should concern both the left and the right including:
1. The number of markets with a single insurance provider (including most rural markets). There's also the gerrymandering they did early on that favored urban (i.e. blue) markets unfairly
2. The number of markets where states have to beg providers to keep them there
3. High churn among customers in the subsidized individual market. https://t.co/nMtuprptgh (see slide 9 especially)
4. The amount of cost shifting going on between categories of insurance (especially regarding kidney disease)
5. HHS' watering down and removing of incentives to stay insured (like weak enforcement of mandates and allowing people to maintain coverage for three months after stopping payment). One of the only thing saving insurers is that most people don't understand that they can get 12 months of insurance for the price of nine.
5. Finally there's this (not the greatest summary, read the whole thing)
A "death spiral" is a technical term that comes from the days when carriers could underwrite risk and exclude sick people from their programs and is analogous to the process of an airplane climbing to a high altitude, losing control, and, being unable to regain lift, spiraling down to the ground [...]

I can tell you that I have talked to a number of health plans that are telling me that when the big rate increases became effective on January 1, 2017, their off-exchange net enrollment shrunk between 15% and 35%. The carriers are also telling me that their off exchange medical loss ratios are just as bad as the on-exchange business. And, the Aetna CEO certainly knew about the medical loss ratio on his off-exchange block when he made his comments.

We won't know if 2017's big off-exchange cancellations are part of a death spiral in this half of Obamacare until we see a few years of data and can look back at the complete picture. But this does have all of the classic characteristics of a spiral––big rate increases pushing the people who don't need heath insurance this year off the program leaving the sick people who do need it in a program where those quitting now can be guaranteed of coming back next January if they get sick.
http://healthpolicyandmarket.blogspot.c ... .html#more

Whether or not the AHCA was an improvement over Obamacare is a good topic for debate, but that doesn't mean that Obamacare isn't a dumpster fire.
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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johnoCare: because we ain't never going back to the old ways. And because customers shopping and businesses competing are the only way to efficiently control costs and provide quality care.

1 - Catastrophic insurance for every citizen. Premiums paid for by Uncle, graduated up to median income level, and goes along with your taxpayer ID that is issued at birth. Citizens who are fukt/defective are randomly assigned to any insurance companies that participate in that market. These companies will compete nationally, across state lines.

2 - Employer-provided health insurance to be paid as income to employees, and taxed as such.

3 - Enable/allow HSA's for every citizen. And annually give a health care voucher for such to each citizen. (Phase out Medicare & Medicaid.)

4 - Complete cost transparency for customers, formerly known as patients.

5 - Allow Nurse Practitioners, RN's, and PA's to hang out their shingles and compete with MD's.


It's not a final product, I know.
But your Mom's a whore, so STFU.
I've probably put more thought into this than Ryan did in introducing his lame ass bill. Or Obama did before introducing Obamacare.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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johno wrote:johnoCare: because we ain't never going back to the old ways. And because customers shopping and businesses competing are the only way to efficiently control costs and provide quality care.

1 - Catastrophic insurance for every citizen. Premiums paid for by Uncle, graduated up to median income level, and goes along with your taxpayer ID that is issued at birth. Citizens who are fukt/defective are randomly assigned to any insurance companies that participate in that market. These companies will compete nationally, across state lines.

2 - Employer-provided health insurance to be paid as income to employees, and taxed as such.

3 - Enable/allow HSA's for every citizen. And annually give a health care voucher for such to each citizen. (Phase out Medicare & Medicaid.)

4 - Complete cost transparency for customers, formerly known as patients.

5 - Allow Nurse Practitioners, RN's, and PA's to hang out their shingles and compete with MD's.


It's not a final product, I know.
But your Mom's a whore, so STFU.
I've probably put more thought into this than Ryan did in introducing his lame ass bill. Or Obama did before introducing Obamacare.
I like what you are thinking, particularly on item 4. There needs to also be some clearinghouse of information on the efficacy of different medical stuff, what works and what doesn't. The med providers will need a push on that.
Don’t believe everything you think.

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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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People hate on insurance companies for costs, but fail to put any blame on hospitals and doctors for charging out the ass(and administrators who pay themselves huge salaries to be middlemen). It's ok to hate on corporations and CEOs of multinationals making ridiculous sums nowadays, but not the sleazy health care industry. $1300 for 5 stitches? Get fucked.
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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johnoCare v.2

6a) Empower EMT's to say, "You're not sick and you're not going to the ER. Take the bus home."

6b) Empower ER Nurses to say, "You're not seriously sick. Get out of my ER."


Huge savings right there.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

W.B. Yeats


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Re: Trumpling the Truth

Post by Blaidd Drwg »

johno wrote:johnoCare v.2

6a) Empower EMT's to say, "You're not sick and you're not going to the ER. Take the bus home."

6b) Empower ER Nurses to say, "You're not seriously sick. Get out of my ER."


Huge savings right there.
Huge liability.

You get here via tort reform.
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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Herv100 wrote:People hate on insurance companies for costs, but fail to put any blame on hospitals and doctors for charging out the ass...
...$1300 for 5 stitches? Get fucked.
See johnoCare #5
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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Blaidd Drwg wrote:
johno wrote:johnoCare v.2

6a) Empower EMT's to say, "You're not sick and you're not going to the ER. Take the bus home."

6b) Empower ER Nurses to say, "You're not seriously sick. Get out of my ER."


Huge savings right there.
Huge liability.

You get here via tort reform.
Absolutely.

PS - I have told people they're not going to the hospital myself. And I was willing to justify that I had complied with proper standard of care. But it would have been safer to just ship them off to the ER in a $1500 ambulance ride.

PPS - I've also told a 400 lb beluga who was in such a minor car accident that damage to the vehicle was imperceptible, that if he insisted on being extricated onto a back board, I'd have my crew cut him out of his car with the Jaws of Life so they wouldn't hurt themselves lifting his bloated ass out of his car.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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johno wrote: I've also told a 400 lb beluga who was in such a minor car accident that damage to the vehicle was imperceptible, that if he insisted on being extricated onto a back board, I'd have my crew cut him out of his car with the Jaws of Life so they wouldn't hurt themselves lifting his bloated ass out of his car.
=D>
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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johno wrote:johnoCare v.2

6a) Empower EMT's to say, "You're not sick and you're not going to the ER. Take the bus home."

6b) Empower ER Nurses to say, "You're not seriously sick. Get out of my ER."


Huge savings right there.
Our system isn't set up to handle the positive effect that would have on EMT and ER nurse morale.
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Re: Trumpling the Truth

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Blaidd Drwg wrote:
johno wrote:johnoCare v.2

6a) Empower EMT's to say, "You're not sick and you're not going to the ER. Take the bus home."

6b) Empower ER Nurses to say, "You're not seriously sick. Get out of my ER."


Huge savings right there.
Huge liability.

You get here via tort reform.
Irrelevant without EMTALA reform.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule

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