IGX

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:15 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:58 pm Po-po is unusually out of control this time around. Attacking journalists, beating compliant/still protestors, attacking people on their own private property.

This may be Trump's most successful infrastructure week yet.

At what exact point in your life did you farm out your critical thinking skills to reddit? Where you just threw up your hands and said, "this thinking shit is hard fuck that!"

I'm looking at video of cops shooting less lethal ammo at people on their own porches. Cops kicking people who are seated. Cops attacking reporters. This is response to protests about police brutality. Seems pretty bad.

It's particularly bad juxtaposed against angry MAGAmigos storming legislatures with guns and getting the white glove treatment.

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:17 pm
Every single value of your generation is collapsing.

Yep, you missed it. Is that what's bothering you, Bunky.

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:28 pm

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:15 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:58 pm Po-po is unusually out of control this time around. Attacking journalists, beating compliant/still protestors, attacking people on their own private property.

This may be Trump's most successful infrastructure week yet.

At what exact point in your life did you farm out your critical thinking skills to reddit? Where you just threw up your hands and said, "this thinking shit is hard fuck that!"

I'm looking at video of cops shooting less lethal ammo at people on their own porches. Cops kicking people who are seated. Cops attacking reporters. This is response to protests about police brutality. Seems pretty bad.

It's particularly bad juxtaposed against angry MAGAmigos storming legislatures with guns and getting the white glove treatment.

Surely this time you will finally get the racial justice that only white people can secure for POCs.

27 killed, 92 shot in Chicago weekend gun violence: https://www.wifr.com/content/news/27-ki ... 21951.html

Protest when? Spells?


The theory that police killings are racially biased is not borne out by the evidence:



https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publi ... -use-force



We need to start from correct assumptions before we can diagnose the problem. Data indicates the real problem is due to elevated levels of criminality in those communities.

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:17 pm

seeahill wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:12 pm

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:07 pm LOL get the fuck out. Yes, the crowds of black rioters are actually crypto-white supremacists.

They're in blackface.

Every single value of your generation is collapsing. There will be no racial harmony. There will be no socialist utopia. There will be no free love. We will not hold hands and jerk each other off. Hippies BTFO.

WHAT?????

Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force.

newguy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:45 pm

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:17 pm

seeahill wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:12 pm

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:07 pm LOL get the fuck out. Yes, the crowds of black rioters are actually crypto-white supremacists.

They're in blackface.

Every single value of your generation is collapsing. There will be no racial harmony. There will be no socialist utopia. There will be no free love. We will not hold hands and jerk each other off. Hippies BTFO.

WHAT?????

The current race riots are the lineal descendant of the 1968 riots, LBJ's social programming, and the general leftward drift of the United States under the sway of a dishonest and manipulative media. Are you following along yet?

Affirmative action, public housing, welfare, etc. If there was any merit, whatsoever, in any of it why are we where we are today? It's bankrupt thinking, the American equivalent of "that wasn't real communism" to wistfully imagine that if only we really grovel to these entrenched special interests, finally, just finally, we will achieve the commie molester MLK's fanciful dream of racial harmony. Don't believe me, listen to Malcom X:

“The worst enemy that the Negro have is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth professing to love Negros and calling himself a liberal, and it is following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Negros have. If the Negro wasn’t taken, tricked or deceived by the white liberal, then Negros would get together and solve our own problems. I only cite these things to show you that in America, the history of the white liberal has been nothing but a series of trickery designed to make Negros think that the white liberal was going to solve our problems. Our problems will never be solved by the white man.”

I believe the social policies worked as intended. The welfare rules destroyed families, housing projects were crime factories, busing created a lot of dropouts. The negative effects of these policies were the point of them in the first place. The liberal elite wanted black Americans to be a permanent underclass so endless legislation could be enacted ostensibly for the benefit of blacks but in reality the goal was always more laws, more control, more destruction of the social order.

If anyone thinks liberals are actually acting with good intentions, why then do Democrat mayors roll back police actions that liberals are always complaining about? Mostly mayors don't do that. Why do Democrat governors never sign lots of pardons and ask the legislature to roll back the incarceration rate? Because they don't actually care, and the liberals who support them don't care either.

Well said and very much an extension of what you and I were talking about last week.

motherjuggs&speed wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:04 am I believe the social policies worked as intended. The welfare rules destroyed families, housing projects were crime factories, busing created a lot of dropouts. The negative effects of these policies were the point of them in the first place. The liberal elite wanted black Americans to be a permanent underclass so endless legislation could be enacted ostensibly for the benefit of blacks but in reality the goal was always more laws, more control, more destruction of the social order.

If anyone thinks liberals are actually acting with good intentions, why then do Democrat mayors roll back police actions that liberals are always complaining about? Mostly mayors don't do that. Why do Democrat governors never sign lots of pardons and ask the legislature to roll back the incarceration rate? Because they don't actually care, and the liberals who support them don't care either.

I really don't believe that there are any "elites" that wanted prosperity for Black Americans, conservative or liberal.

And I don't really think that this is something that they want that for any of the poor. Or middle class. The elite are very happy with how things are and have no interest in structural change. Elite level wealth (I am talking multigenerational, wealth forever style wealth) is it's own beast that is above any political distinction.

Who are these "elites"? Name some names.

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:57 am Who are these "elites"? Name some names.

I'm not on their christmas card wish list.

The Kochs.....the bush fam...Rockefellers....Carnegie Mellons....not to mention the british royals....skull and bones people....Rothchilds...

There is money behind every politician. And then there is money behind that money.

To some extent the multigenerational wealth can be a positive. Elites have often advocated for less extreme positions than the masses. In the U.S. for the last hundred years or so they were also part of the society, not surrounded by gates and guards, and had an interest in keeping society more or less functioning. I'm not suggesting that they were concerned much with the have-nots; I'm saying they did have an interest in keeping things from getting too crazy. Now though, the elites are increasingly separated and see themselves as completely apart from society. As Charles Murray said, it doesn't matter if the truck driver can't understand or care about the problems of the Commerce Secretary, but it's a big problem if the Commerce Secretary doesn't know or care about the problems of the truck driver.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that. And I also believe that in general, wealthy people are quite generous with time and money for social causes.

My point was in your response to "liberal elite wanted black americans to be a permanent underclass."

Power and money are a self sustaining system. Wealth marries into wealth. Wealth creates laws that benefits wealth. Wealth as a system does not seek out structural change that will necessary to eliminate structural poverty. It's neither liberal nor conservative. It is it's own thing. It's why you see Ellen and George W eating hot dogs at the ball game. Wealth loves wealth.

This is not new. It is as old as humanity.

Which I fully admit doesn't really have anything to do with anything.

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:25 pm 27 killed, 92 shot in Chicago weekend gun violence: https://www.wifr.com/content/news/27-ki ... 21951.html

Protest when? Spells?

Really pathetic talking point. There are more "take back the night" protests after a rash of shootings than you can shake a stick at. I used to live in one of those neighborhoods, the events were kind of a pain in the ass, but they occur regularly. They are not covered in the media you consume. Also, state-sanctioned murder draws a bigger crowd.

The theory that police killings are racially biased is not borne out by the evidence:

Police murdering people of any race is bad. The people attacked in my earlier examples were, I believe, all white. Police killings have dropped somewhat in major metro areas, but are increasing in rural areas. So our rural friends should be every bit as concerned about this. I am struggling to understand how you process the killing of George Floyd.

Police shouldn't murder helpless people, and when they do, they should be accountable, This isn't a radical position.

Further, I think using tear gas to disperse a peacefully assembled crowd to Trump can pose in front of a church he doesn't attend and hold up a Bible he doesn't read is extremely bad. Shooting reporters, bad. Attacking peaceful protesters, bad. This is all standard First Amendment stuff, has nothing to do with one's opinions on race, and our Second Amendment enthusiasts so far appear willing to lick the boots of the oppressors.

GOP not giving much of a damn about press or assembly freedoms, either

Spells, when has burning down cities and looting ever been considered a 1st Amendment right? Seriously. When?

Schlegel wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:49 amSpells, when has burning down cities and looting ever been considered a 1st Amendment right? Seriously. When?

Holy shit, man. Nobody is arguing we should not arrest looters.

D.C. police literally tear-gassed a crowd that included the clergy of that church today so Trump could take a photo in front of it. Nobody was looting, nobody was violent.
Police and national guard were shooting people on their porches who were sitting there. Nobody was looting, nobody was violent. White residential neighborhood where nothing was going on.
Police are shooting and beating reporters on camera. The reporters aren't looting and aren't violent.
Police are beating people who are sitting down. They aren't looting, they aren't violent.

George Floyd wasn't being violent, was in custody and was killed on camera.

I assume you're consuming completely different news, but you may want to expand your horizons a bit, unless the above doesn't concern you at all.

I dont agree with those actions either, Spells. And I have absolutely seen people saying we should take no action against arsonists and looters because "It's just property". You claim they are against the freedom of assembly now, but Cotton doesn't say the military should stop protests in his tweet... he specifically referred to violence. Despite Sykes' disdain for scary armed deplorables, it remains the plain truth that the protests 2-3 weeks ago harmed no one. ( well, I did see people saying they should be prosecuted as terrorists for ignoring social distancing and going maskless) Of course now all right-thinking people support our brave Covid-spreading protestors.

Do you really think the Army would be called out in the absence of arson and looting?

You scoff at "our brave 2nd amendment enthusiasts" but in fact they are quite aware of the effects of over-policing, personally I think a lot would make common cause with minorities on a great many crime and policing issues but the Democratic party has put a great deal of work into alienating gun owners.

And literally no one thinks what happened to Floyd was right. Chauvin was fired in 24 hrs and charged with murder as soon as the autopsy was done. Even the Police union has disavowed him.

FYI, I think qualified immunity needs to go. Police and politicians can do whatever they want and the taxpayers pay, never them. It is much too strong a protection. They'd tread more carefully if they had more personal risk.

Schlegel wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:27 am I dont agree with those actions either, Spells. And I have absolutely seen people saying we should take no action against arsonists and looters because "It's just property". You claim they are against the freedom of assembly now, but Cotton doesn't say the military should stop protests in his tweet... he specifically referred to violence.

Rhetoric on the extremes of both sides is not designed to spark conversation but to polarize people. There are people who benefit from our inability to have a reasonable public discourse. Yes, there are people are saying we should take no action against arsonists and looters. Of course this is ridiculous and no reasonable person really agrees with this. But there are also people saying that police should be shooting first and asking questions later which is also not in line with the majority of people's views.

And while everyone pays lips service to respecting the rights to peaceful protest, police are aggressively confronting and breaking these protests up in a way that is markedly different from the restrained response we saw earlier this month.

motherjuggs&speed wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:04 am I believe the social policies worked as intended. The welfare rules destroyed families, housing projects were crime factories, busing created a lot of dropouts. The negative effects of these policies were the point of them in the first place. The liberal elite wanted black Americans to be a permanent underclass so endless legislation could be enacted ostensibly for the benefit of blacks but in reality the goal was always more laws, more control, more destruction of the social order.

If anyone thinks liberals are actually acting with good intentions, why then do Democrat mayors roll back police actions that liberals are always complaining about? Mostly mayors don't do that. Why do Democrat governors never sign lots of pardons and ask the legislature to roll back the incarceration rate? Because they don't actually care, and the liberals who support them don't care either.

This.
In fact, some guy just said “If you don’t vote for me, you ain’t black.”
We’ve all seen the “liberals” and democrats who act as if they are entitled to the vote of every black man and woman in America.
Except Spells. He has no idea what I’m on about.

Schlegel wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:29 am FYI, I think qualified immunity needs to go. Police and politicians can do whatever they want and the taxpayers pay, never them. It is much too strong a protection. They'd tread more carefully if they had more personal risk.

The risk if that is you get more cautious police, possibly to the extreme we are seeing on Baltimore.

This seems to be a problem we’ve been grappling with since mlk was killed, and nobody seems to have a practical answer— I certainly don’t.

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:32 am

GOP not giving much of a damn about press or assembly freedoms, either

Hard to determine his intent without context-- is it primarily crush the protests, or is it a way to get federal funding for broke municipalities?

I’ve never had much luck with rustoleum, seems to last a few months then starts flaking off from underlying rust again.