Biden's America: How Hard Will They Chimp?

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:11 pm

Interesting discussion and informative. Has anyone heard any discussion of WHY Chauvin is choosing a trial by jury as opposed to a bench trial? It seems to me like a judge would be far more capable of tuning out the broader discussion and focusing on the letter of the law.

newguy · Post by **newguy** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:48 pm

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:11 pm Interesting discussion and informative. Has anyone heard any discussion of WHY Chauvin is choosing a trial by jury as opposed to a bench trial? It seems to me like a judge would be far more capable of tuning out the broader discussion and focusing on the letter of the law.

In both you need to convince one person.

Would I rather take my chances with 1 shot convincing a legal expert who may or may not be leaning towards my case?

Or would I rather try to convince 1 of 12 (whom I had a hand in selecting) that there is reasonable doubt.

My tv trained lawyer mind has me going with a a jury. Odds are more in my favor.

This is a complete uniformed answer.

johno · Post by **johno** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:48 pm

In the ideal world, I'd go with the judge. But Minneapolis may have a Leftish, highly politicized judiciary that would make that decision suicide.

Shafpocalypse Now · Post by **Shafpocalypse Now** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:26 pm

Floyd has been practically canonized in Houston. Murals up everywhere, "I can't breathe" graffiti. I will say Houston PD has keep rioting to a minimum. Much better controlled than Austin, TX, for example. I will also say that the rioting is far less because Houston doesn't have a strong, white antifa presence to push protests into violent property destruction.

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:18 pm
Shafpocalypse Now wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:10 pm 1. Do the facts support a charge of 2nd degree homicide?
No

2. Was the knee compression an allowable use of force?
Yes. According to other Minneapolis PD cops

3. Did FG die of asphyxia or an overdose of Fentanyl?
Toss up. the OD data will be hard to ignore.

4. What's the likely outcome in the courtroom?
I'm going to say he's going to be a sacrificial lamb somehow, but the facts, just the fact, should show that Chauvin acted within the MPD standard operating procedures for the immobilization of a large man.

5. What's the likely outcome in the streets?
Either way, Antifa and Black Bloc is burning shit down.
I think all of your answers are very reasonable and logical. I am definitely not a legal expert, but I have to imagine the defense has a strong evidentiary basis for creating reasonable doubt in the murder charge against Chauvin. FG was highly intoxicated, huge, engaged in a crime, and when apprehended, he resisted arrest. It would have been better for the country if he hadn't died, but nothing of value was lost, TBH. At most, I can see some kind of callous disregard for safety charge sticking.

Shafpocalypse Now · Post by **Shafpocalypse Now** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:28 pm

MPD dispatch showed that one of the cops on the scene called for an ambulance.

nafod wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:30 pm
Fat Cat wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:14 pm
nafod wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:21 pm The guy said he couldn't breathe while under their control, and then he stopped breathing while under their control, without them trying to help him.

The assumption if you have a knee on a guy's neck and back and he stops breathing, is that you need to do something different. He didn't.
So all you need to do is simulate shortness of breath and the cops have to let you go? Am I getting that right?
Well, he actually passed out and stopped breathing.

Why weren’t they doing CPR?

Shafpocalypse Now · Post by **Shafpocalypse Now** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:32 pm

This is a damn good point, Johno.

johno wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:50 pm
I didn't watch the firefighter comment part of the video, but cops & firefighters routinely tune out bystander comments & suggestions. They have to, in order to do their jobs.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:44 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:26 pm Floyd has been practically canonized in Houston. Murals up everywhere, "I can't breathe" graffiti. I will say Houston PD has keep rioting to a minimum. Much better controlled than Austin, TX, for example. I will also say that the rioting is far less because Houston doesn't have a strong, white antifa presence to push protests into violent property destruction.

For the life of me, I will never understand why, of all people, BLM chooses idiots like George Floyd. As if there are some perfectly innocent black people who are victims of violence every single day in America. But instead, they choose total goobers like Eric Garner and Fentanyl Floyd.

nafod · Post by **nafod** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:52 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:28 pm MPD dispatch showed that one of the cops on the scene called for an ambulance.

They knew he was having a medical crisis?

In the video, the police with the body cam does engage with the bystanders, to include the off duty firefighter.

johno · Post by **johno** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:53 pm

One other point. Something that we in the Fire Service talk about but is universal in human behavior: Tunnel Vision. Once you see the situation as X and the prescribed solution as Y, if your first application of Y doesn't produce your desired result, Y harder. Even if the situation was never X or if the situation changed from X to something else.

Examples: Vietnam War, Afghanistan War, the War on Poverty, socialism, firefighters attacking a fire in the basement by entering at the first floor, and most of the shit I do that doesn't work in grappling.
And Chauvin keeping the knee on neck after Floyd went unconscious.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:51 am

johno wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:53 pm One other point. Something that we in the Fire Service talk about but is universal in human behavior: Tunnel Vision. Once you see the situation as X and the prescribed solution as Y, if your first application of Y doesn't produce your desired result, Y harder. Even if the situation was never X or if the situation changed from X to something else.

Examples: Vietnam War, Afghanistan War, the War on Poverty, socialism, firefighters attacking a fire in the basement by entering at the first floor, and most of the shit I do that doesn't work in grappling.
And Chauvin keeping the knee on neck after Floyd went unconscious.

Defund the Fire Department! AND THOSE GODDAMN PARAMEDICS TOO!

johno · Post by **johno** » Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:12 am

HOW DARE YOU!

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:06 pm

johno wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:24 am Not a fan of ^"chimp," which many could interpret as racist. But it's a fascinating subject.

The Federal Government has coddled and played to the ethno-narcicism of African Americans since the mid-1960s at minimum, and where has it gotten them? It's been a total disaster. Any accusation of racism today should be met with callous indifference. Nobody cares, it's just a prop.

Turdacious · Post by **Turdacious** » Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:06 pm

Jury so far is majority white and male and from a very white county. Not sure what that will mean. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:20 pm

Turd's Article wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:06 pm The jurors all come from Hennepin County, which is demographically about 74% White and 14% Black, according to Census data.

I would hope they are majority white, given the demographics of the county it's taking place in. Trial by peers and whatnot.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:15 pm

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ci ... y-n1260868

MINNEAPOLIS — The city of Minneapolis has reached a $27 million settlement with George Floyd's family just weeks before the trial is scheduled to begin for the former officer charged with murder in his death.

The City Council unanimously approved the settlement Friday after adding the matter to its agenda for a closed session. The settlement includes a $500,000 contribution from Floyd's family to the community at the intersection of 38th and Chicago Avenue — now widely known as George Floyd Square.

WTF? Why don't they at least wait for the outcome of the trial? How does this make sense?

johno · Post by **johno** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:33 am

Cartoonist & podcaster Scott Adams is an occasional genius.
He suggested that the defense attorney in the George Floyd trial deliver his closing argument facedown on the courtroom floor with Chauvin applying the knee to his neck.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:35 am

I've used knee on neck instead of knee on belly many times to punish froggy grapplers and never once did they die on me.

johno · Post by **johno** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:30 am

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:35 am I've used knee on neck instead of knee on belly many times to punish froggy grapplers and never once did they die on me.

Speaking of grappling, Floyd, and police applications of force - states and the fed gov't are trending toward outlawing the RNC/LVNR/Blood Choke. This will have tragic consequences. And probably hit the black community harder than any other, as cops are forced to escalate their use of force.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:37 am

The world is upside down right now but that can't last. Cooler heads will prevail because nothing can stand on a foundation of falsehoods. I even posted some polling that was done in the black community and they uniformly wanted MORE policing, not less. When you take away the non-lethal tools, all you're left with is lethal force. That's the same problem we talked about with lady cops; they're more prone to shoot because they cannot physically dominate a situation in the way an athletic male officer may be able to.

Sangoma · Post by **Sangoma** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:43 am

johno wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:53 pm One other point. Something that we in the Fire Service talk about but is universal in human behavior: Tunnel Vision. Once you see the situation as X and the prescribed solution as Y, if your first application of Y doesn't produce your desired result, Y harder. Even if the situation was never X or if the situation changed from X to something else.

Examples: Vietnam War, Afghanistan War, the War on Poverty, socialism, firefighters attacking a fire in the basement by entering at the first floor, and most of the shit I do that doesn't work in grappling.
And Chauvin keeping the knee on neck after Floyd went unconscious.

This is a very valid point. Tunnel vision is common in critical situations. Years ago I nearly lost a patient: I could not ventilate her, and was treating her stepwise through logical chain: laryngospasm, then bronchospasm then - what the fuck is going on! It turned out to be the anaesthetic machine problem, which was not checked properly. There is more to the story, but the point is, once you think you have something figured out it is very unlikely you will be able to step back and restart the thinking process from scratch.

nafod · Post by **nafod** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:37 pm

Why did they call an ambulance?

johno · Post by **johno** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:21 pm

nafod wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:37 pm Why did they call an ambulance?

The answer could range anywhere from "They finally realized that doing Y harder wasn't working" to "That's MPD policy under those circumstances."

As I implied above, I find some fault with the fire fighter onscene - he should have been focused on Floyd's medical condition and more assertive, IMO. But my criticism is based on my jurisdiction's culture & policy, not Minneapolis's FD. (In my early days, we had fire fighter conflict with law enforcement, getting our guy put in cuffs.)

Bram · Post by **Bram** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:06 pm

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:35 am I've used knee on neck instead of knee on belly many times to punish froggy grapplers and never once did they die on me.

For 8+ minutes on concrete?

C'mon brah, poor comparison.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:58 pm

There was an element of sarcasm in my post that you may have failed to note.

Bram · Post by **Bram** » Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:58 am

I blame it on the weed, man.

IGX

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