IGX

As far as I remember, the reason for the US invasion of Iraq was the lie about the existence of laboratories for the development of biological weapons.

And in Ukraine there are about thirty such American laboratories :)

Wild Bill wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:55 am

motherjuggs&speed wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:08 am Maybe Putin simply wants...

Or maybe because the United States pumped up Ukraine with weapons and did not give guarantees that Ukraine would not join NATO?
Maybe because the United States stuffed Ukraine with laboratories for the development of biological weapons?
Maybe because Zelensky said he would start developing nuclear weapons with US support?

No, it can't be :)
Of course, Putin is a crazy conqueror.

It would be strange for Putin to not announce the biological weapons facilities *before* the invasion, if they existed. Back then it was "we're not invading," and then they were invading to expel Jewish Nazis.

Throwing a constant stream of shit on the wall so people don't know what to think is the strategy.

Wild Bill wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:03 am As far as I remember, the reason for the US invasion of Iraq was the lie about the existence of laboratories for the development of biological weapons.

And in Ukraine there are about thirty such American laboratories :)

It's possible every RUS stated justification for invasion is a troll of the US. RUS may be using every blatant BS "cause" the US has trotted out.

Luke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:20 am

Bennyonesix1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:20 pm

Luke wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:51 am

Bennyonesix1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 4:35 pm I think we can say with at least some confidence that Western analysts expected UKR to fall within 72hrs. And they are trying to figure out why that didn't happen. There are many possible reasons for this. RUS underperformance is certainly one. And it may be the case. But it may not be. RUS goals are not clear (re-creating the USSR is facially preposterous) so evaluating strategy and tactics is a fools errand.

What could be the rationale for not being able to take the country thus far though?

Why are you assuming the CW of US Intel analysts (as disseminated by Intel assets in the media) was correct or that they are competent?

Have you seen a map of UKR super-imposed over the US?

Do you know how much mil hardware and training the US gave UKR?

Are you aware of how much money is at stake for Western Oligarchs?

Are you sure Putin isn't trying to achieve control over natural resources required by The West? Maybe he needs political and industrial infrastructure intact?

I'm not saying these are the actual reasons. It may be something else entirely. I'm saying Western Intel failed once again.

Fuck, it's also possible that US Intel disseminated the 72hr meme despite knowing it was BS.

Fwiw (zero), I think Obama and Biden have been sidelined and think this is all insane. Trump obv thinks this is insane too. The faction pushing this is HRC and Bush faction(s). The usual suspects are frothing at the mouth.

No on all counts - I don't know what and who to believe anymore...about anything ha!

But regardless of motives, if you start an invasion - why would your strategy be to hang back and take heavy losses? I mean, whatever Putin wants to do, he'd be better able to do it if he has complete control of the areas he wants?

I don't think we can take anything at face value. Not UKR losses, not RUS losses, not reddit trannie mercs getting wrecked, not the biolabs, not a single thing.

Well, maybe a few things like RUS waited until after CHN olympics and RUS does seem to be engaging in an extermination of Azov in the east of UKR and the sanctions are real and the nickel and neon etc are real and RUS did not bomb the shit out of UKR before invading.

I think we can probably say that RUS got an OK from CHN to invade and the tactical goal is control of critical natural resources. The strategic goal is mvmnt toward a bi-polar world by China.

I said earlier in this thread that RUS had already taken UKR (as in chess) and decided now was the time to make it clear.

The not bombing and slow advance makes sense when viewed this way as preservation of infrastructure to extract those minerals.

RUS was/is facing extinguishment by US. They chose relations with CHN in response.

But who knows? Putin may have been poisoned or have cancer or dementia and just said fuck it. But it is hard to explain backing of RUS mil if that is the case.

PS. We also know UKR was the premier money laundering center for US pols in the East.

Well fan-fucking-tastic.

Look at how this blew up.

I am opposed to
-sending troops to Ukraine
-sending weapons to Ukraine (and Russia is totally justified in targeting the weapons being brought into the country)
-and believe the sanctions are only hurting the regular russian people
-the invasion to begin with.

Like B16, said, this is a multigenerational failure of US foreign policy coupled with greed.

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:09 pm Back then it was "we're not invading,

And before that, there were Russian proposals to the United States, which the Western press called an ultimatum.

Russia demanded guarantees that Ukraine would not join NATO, otherwise it reserved the right to a military-technical response.

The US responded with a refusal.

Actually, Putin did exactly what he promised to do.
Although I admit, I did not believe that he would dare to do this.

This is good. Pippa Malmgren is the daughter of Harald Malmgren who was one of the most sig policy advisors on the world stage post wwii. She has access to people who know the actual facts. I think the "Russia is losing" goes too far and is probably just good-speak necessary to being taken seriously. To say Russia is losing requires an understanding of what RUS wants. And she doesn't go into that. But the rest is excellent and undeniable. "We're (the West) gonna need an ICU"

https://drpippa.substack.com/p/the-blee ... witter&s=r

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:09 pm It would be strange for Putin to not announce the biological weapons facilities *before* the invasion, if they existed. Back then it was "we're not invading," and then they were invading to expel Jewish Nazis.

Never telegraph your punches. Do you have to have it spelled out, no pun intended?

Zelensky is Jewish. The Azov Battalion and Right Sector are Nazi. Azov people still use that wolfsangle.

https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/worl ... b45f2.html

Whole lot of executed civilians. Some of the shot down aircraft appears to have been propaganda, but there are foreign sources on what's going on in some of these liberated areas.

This whole thing is also reminiscent of how some said Afghanistan would have gone better if we "took the gloves off." Russia is going hard on the war crimes and it's not having the desired effect.

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:49 pm Whole lot of executed civilians. Some of the shot down aircraft appears to have been propaganda, but there are foreign sources on what's going on in some of these liberated areas.

This whole thing is also reminiscent of how some said Afghanistan would have gone better if we "took the gloves off." Russia is going hard on the war crimes and it's not having the desired effect.

It's also reminiscent of Babies tossed out of incubators in Kuwait City in 1991 or invading Iraq to seek "weapons of mass destruction" in 2003.

There were also the White Helmet theatrics, hoping to inspire the US to invade Syria under Obama. Disinfecting people of Sarin exposure while wearing no respirators wasn't too convincing but it looked dramatic.

There have been rumors on the ground in Mariupol of Azov Battalion freaks shooting civilians or fighting with UAF forces. Perhaps they shot up some 'disloyal' Ukrainians. The killers could have also been Chechens on the Russian side or vengeful Russian forces.

There are a lot of pissed off people in Ukraine. Pissed off for all sorts of reasons.

How about we suspend judgment, not do anything rash about issues that do not concern us as outsiders? Ukraine is none of our business, Gramps.

If you feel different, Gramps, the Ukrainians would be happy to have you join them. Don't commit 340,000,000 US citizens to nuclear incineration, go yourself.

https://uacrisis.org/en/international-legion

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:49 pm Whole lot of executed civilians. Some of the shot down aircraft appears to have been propaganda, but there are foreign sources on what's going on in some of these liberated areas.

It worked for them in Chechnya and Georgia, and in Syria. Why change their game plan?

Putin is counting on the civilized world to pussy out.

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:49 pm Whole lot of executed civilians. Some of the shot down aircraft appears to have been propaganda, but there are foreign sources on what's going on in some of these liberated areas.

This whole thing is also reminiscent of how some said Afghanistan would have gone better if we "took the gloves off." Russia is going hard on the war crimes and it's not having the desired effect.

Fake.
From the creators of ghost of Kiev.

Man, white trash I don't give a fuck about killing their doppelgangers. I can't get enough of this shit.

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 4:46 am Putin is counting on the civilized world to pussy out.

The civilized world didn't get bothered by us doing it, Nafod?

Salvador solution in Iraq.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... washington

In Afghanistan.

https://www.thenation.com/article/world ... ghanistan/



This is about blood for natural gas...

Some more details.....

Chevron and Shell were working there. Offshore leases, where NATO vessels have been pushing "freedom of navigation".


Maybe Putin figured if his buddy W Bush could do it, so could he? Invade places to bring democracy or drive out nazis..... just slogans.

Ronald RayGun wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:50 am Man, white trash I don't give a fuck about killing their doppelgangers. I can't get enough of this shit.

That’s some hard core liberating going on.

More and better weapons to Ukraine.

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 4:46 am

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:49 pm Whole lot of executed civilians. Some of the shot down aircraft appears to have been propaganda, but there are foreign sources on what's going on in some of these liberated areas.

It worked for them in Chechnya and Georgia, and in Syria. Why change their game plan?

Putin is counting on the civilized world to pussy out.

Putin doesn't seem to be making a lot of rational choices at this point. It is disappointing that the RU populace seems to be fine going all in on this.

Russia is basically just trying to destroy Ukraine. I could see Ukraine getting pissed off enough to create and blow up a dirty bomb in some Russian metropolis. Or attack Russian interests around the globe.

Some pain needs to be felt by average joe Russian. We need to help Ukraine bring it.

That's where I think starting to kick Russian citizens out of universities and so on makes sense. It's easy to treat this as a game of "who really knows what's going on." Important to make it clear this isn't a game. Things could get extremely out of hand.

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 4:26 pm Some pain needs to be felt by average joe Russian. We need to help Ukraine bring it.

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 6:39 pm That's where I think starting to kick Russian citizens out of universities and so on makes sense.

The US has been trying this kind of approach since 1979 with Iran and since the 1960 with Cuba. Failure is its own best demonstration.

I think the distinction here is recommending pressure in response to an invasion vs. pressure in response to an entire system of government.

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:32 pm I think the distinction here is recommending pressure in response to an invasion vs. pressure in response to an entire system of government.

So it's like the UN boycott of Saddam Hussein in 1990? A response to his invasion of Kuwait? They lasted until the US invaded Iraq in 2003. Thirteen years or so. They failed too, didn't they?

Gene wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:58 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:32 pm I think the distinction here is recommending pressure in response to an invasion vs. pressure in response to an entire system of government.

So it's like the UN boycott of Saddam Hussein in 1990? A response to his invasion of Kuwait? They lasted until the US invaded Iraq in 2003. Thirteen years or so. They failed too, didn't they?

Saddam levels of populace subjugation are less affected by economic pressure. In other places it has.

Mass civilian murder around a European capitol is a BFD and the rest of the world should be doing anything short of military action to put a stop to it. Fuck student visas.