Russia and Ukraine

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Wild Bill
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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Wild Bill » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:08 pm

Fat Cat wrote:The key is to streamline Ukraine's immediate entry into NATO. Then we can see what is really up.
You see? Russia really had no any choise. (you asked is it good or bad for Russia).

With new government Ukraine immediately will start joining to NATO, so Russia should take back Crimea at least.
This is last stand of some way :)

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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Wild Bill » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:12 pm

BTW is it possible to country with such a territoty problems to join NATO?
I mean East dose not aproove new government. Crimea. Now Donetsk and Kharkov are rioting.

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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Sangoma » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:34 pm

According to reliable source, when they want to scold a soldier in the Russian army they call him - alongside with the traditional insults - a NATO soldier. "You're useless, you're dumb, fucking weakling, YOU ARE A NATO SOLDIER!" Not an indication that Russia feels threatened by the NATO. To be fair, Russian military do have respect for the American army.
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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:45 pm

Wild Bill wrote:
Fat Cat wrote:The key is to streamline Ukraine's immediate entry into NATO. Then we can see what is really up.
You see? Russia really had no any choise. (you asked is it good or bad for Russia).

With new government Ukraine immediately will start joining to NATO, so Russia should take back Crimea at least.
This is last stand of some way :)
Crimea is a mouse trap for Russia. I told you it was a bad idea not in the interest of Russia.
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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Wild Bill » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:57 pm

May be, may be...
Right now i just don't see any other choise what to do.
But of course there are some risks.

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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Wild Bill » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:59 pm

Smet wrote:"YOU ARE A NATO SOLDIER!"
I doubt. Too long and complex swear.
Last edited by Wild Bill on Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Sangoma » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:00 am

There is a good article by a sensible Russian journalist. It's in Russian, worthwhile running it through Google Translate. http://pozneronline.ru/2014/03/7200/

Some excerpts:
...conflict due to the NATO decision to bomb Yugoslavia, which Russia strongly opposed. I remind that neither UN nor EU gave their approval of these bombings. USA decided and implemented... Forceful separation of Kosovo from Serbia, recognized by the West, opened Pandora's box. Beginning with this event, the whole bunch of disagreements between RUssia and USA followed. At the same time the latter have always acted from the position of force, most remarkable example of which is moving NATO closer to the Russian borders, in spite of promises by the State Secretary Baker of 1989.
One thing that Russia could not tolerate under any conditions is the atemmpts by the USA to "take its place" in the brotherly Slavic Ukraine. Not only because that such Ukraine could become the member of NATO, which will then be situated right to the Western borders of Russia. Psychologically Ukraine is "ours" and Ukranians are "our people". Try imagine for a minute a revolution in Mexico, the power is taken by someone like Chaves who invites Russia to place their troops along the Mexican-American border. Can you guess the consequences?
What about Crimea? Strictly speaking it has never been a part of Ukraine. The Presidium of Supreme Sovet that approved Chrushev's decision to move Crimea to the Ukraine did it with 13 votes, while there were 27 members. There was no quorum. But this is not the decisive factor. The thing is that any negotiations with the West are meaningless, they will betray you anyway, that it is time to show that you cannot treat Russian national interests with such attitude.
From myself I will say: such unbelievable activity of the West in the events has nothing to do with the human rights in the Ukraine, nor the noble desire to help "poor Ukrainians", nor the care of Ukrainian unity. It only has to do with the geopolitical interests. The actions of Russia - in my opinion - are dictated not by the desire "to protect Russians, Ukrainians or Tatars", but the same: geopolitical and national interests.
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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Wild Bill » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:04 am

Smet wrote:But this is not the decisive factor. The thing is that any negotiations with the West are meaningless, they will betray you anyway
true!

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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Batboy2/75 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:11 am

Fat Cat wrote:The key is to streamline Ukraine's immediate entry into NATO. Then we can see what is really up.
The key is to streamline the USA out of NATO.

Just like the squabble between the dirty fucking Arabs and The Jews; none of this shit is our fucking problem.
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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:12 am

It's not a problem, it's an opportunity.
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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Sangoma » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:18 am

As expected, all this noise is a simple dick waving: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/O ... 67481.html

[quote]"We are not going to be getting into military excursion in Ukraine. What we are going to do is mobilize all of our diplomatic resources to make sure that we’ve got a strong international correlation that sends a clear message,” President Obama said.

And a strong standard deviation!
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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:56 am

Fat Cat wrote:It's not a problem, it's an opportunity.
An opportunity for what? An obligation to defend yet another militarily weak European nation with American money, materials and lives?
I'm no fan of Putin, but it's damn near impossible to see an advantage in any further involvement in this shit.
Pages and pages ago, someone suggested that we get our shit together, start exporting energy resources, and weaken petro-states like Russia and the Saudis. That sounds good to me. Getting involved in someone else's war doesn't sound so good.
Blaidd Drwg wrote:Disengage from the outcome and do work.
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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Ronald RayGun » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:05 am

Does anyone REALLY give a fuck about this?

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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:10 am

Unfortunately, the Saudis spend a significant amount of money propping up their influence, buying politicians and lobby groups. On the other hand, fracking and the new profitability of US big oil is degrading that influence.

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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:28 am

Ronald RayGun wrote:Does anyone REALLY give a fuck about this?
Yeah. I give a fuck about whether or not we get drawn into another even stupider war, and i give a fuck about how a country that's so broke and so divided it can't agree on a budget, can find money to throw at someone else's problems.
Blaidd Drwg wrote:Disengage from the outcome and do work.
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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Ronald RayGun » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:52 am


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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Cave Canem » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:59 pm

Maybe Brooklyn is next.........
USSR 2.jpg
USSR 2.jpg (180.49 KiB) Viewed 1835 times
Tantum validus superstes

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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:15 pm

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:
Ronald RayGun wrote:Does anyone REALLY give a fuck about this?
Yeah. I give a fuck about whether or not we get drawn into another even stupider war, and i give a fuck about how a country that's so broke and so divided it can't agree on a budget, can find money to throw at someone else's problems.
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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:37 pm

Cave Canem wrote:Maybe Brooklyn is next.........
USSR 2.jpg
There's enough of them, alright.
Blaidd Drwg wrote:Disengage from the outcome and do work.
Jezzy Bell wrote:Use a fucking barbell, pansy.

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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by T200 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:21 pm

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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by TerryB » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:49 pm

Wild Bill wrote:
Smet wrote:"YOU ARE A NATO SOLDIER!"
I doubt. Too long and complex swear.
LOL
"Know that! & Know it deep you fucking loser!"

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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Wild Bill » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:10 pm

At first they hated only Russians, then Czechs, now Hungarians...
Thugs from Right Sector beat Hungarian schoolchildren.

May be there no more Russians remained in the west Ukraine? #-o

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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by Turdacious » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:30 pm

"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule

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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by TerryB » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:34 pm

I'm only loosely following Wild Bill's ramblings, but it is odd that the American media isn't discussing the make-up to the right-wing Ukrainians or giving any of the backstory as to how/why the West was involved in Ukraine at all.
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Re: Russia and Ukraine

Post by DARTH » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:00 pm

T>1200 wrote:I'm only loosely following Wild Bill's ramblings, but it is odd that the American media isn't discussing the make-up to the right-wing Ukrainians or giving any of the backstory as to how/why the West was involved in Ukraine at all.

No it's not as the media are useless, sycophantic idiots that these guys are being funded and supported on.

Sorros spreads his money, they spread their asscheeks and say "Stick it in.".




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