Occupy Wall Street

[Fat Cat]

Any of our fine IGXers in Oaktown?

[baffled]

Any of our fine IGXers in Oaktown?

I'm close.

[Fat Cat]

Is shit getting real, or is it kind of overblown via interwebz media love of all drama?

[CharlieBob]

I have that book, thought it was very informative albeit rather imperfect, and want to tell you that you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

go on...

[Fat Cat]

For starters, have you read the book?

[CharlieBob]

I am interested in what assumptions you made about my statement that made you say I "don't know what the fuck I am talking about"



I have read the book.

[Fat Cat]

The basic premise of the book you linked is to present modern techniques of textual criticism on the Bible. All good. That said, I quoted a letter from the New Testament which makes the following statement: "The love of money is the root of all evil." In doing so, I was making a reference to the corporate greed of Wall Street and it's effect on our society. Whether or not it is an authentic statement of St. Paul, which would be the basic premise of your book, is not relevant: it's true as an allusion. The love of money is the source of the evil coming out of Wall Street.

So telling me there's no point quoting the Bible because it might not be historically accurate misses the point that it is true, objectively and observably so, in modern life. It's true whether the Easter Bunny said it or I made it up.

[Fat Cat]

And bitch please about the whole "assumptions" thing. You assumed you knew what I was talking and now your butt hurts because I assume things as well. Enjoy fourth grade!

[baffled]

Is shit getting real, or is it kind of overblown via interwebz media love of all drama?

I would like to say both.

Dude in a Benz hit some guy with his car last night. The cell phone video showed the driver sitting there while people blocked the road. Then it looked like a protester faced up to the car and started pounding on his hood. Driver punched the gas.

I don't condone running people over or anything, but I'm not surprised at what happened. The place is a powder keg of sorts. I'm also really not shocked that they fucked up a couple banks yesterday. They had people rumored to be flying in from out of town getting ready to protest during the Johannes Mehserle trial just in case he was acquitted for capping Oscar Grant on NYE a few years back.

Oakland had okay leadership just on a basic "I'm going to get shit done and make a show of being useful" type of level with Jerry Brown, our state's current Governor. Ron Dellums was an incredible failure, and Jean Quan has shown such stunning incompetence that it boggles the mind how she got elected.

I have spent a lot of time working in Oakland as both a volunteer as well as in a professional sense, and it is pretty depressing , even when they're not wrecking banks and shutting down ports. Unless you live in a $2 million home in the Oakland Hills.

I'm thinking of heading down to SF to see what's going on down there this weekend. They'd been talking with the Mayor about packing up a little while back, but they don't get much press. I'll report back if I get insane and go out to either one.

[Fat Cat]

Please do. I'm just curious about what's going on out in the provinces. Hopefully your pain will be my relief as that may mean fewer protestors will make it out here for APEC next week.

[baffled]

Please do. I'm just curious about what's going on out in the provinces. Hopefully your pain will be my relief as that may mean fewer protestors will make it out here for APEC next week.

LOL. I wouldn't get your hopes up my Hawaiian comrade. APEC is going to be a magnet for the shit birds, I would guess.

One more thing on Oakland: it is in a weird geographic area. There is Berkeley which is seemingly addicted to protesting, then less than an hour away you've got affluent suburbs that I would assume are sending high school and junior college students out there.

You do have welfare kings and queens, no matter if DMW thinks it's a bullshit stereotype, but I'm not positive many of them are heading out to protest.

From the news, it's appeared to be a pretty eclectic mix of people, but it's tough to tell.

I think I will try and sack up and head out to both protests this weekend to see for myself what's happening and who's out there.

If I do, I'll take BART and try and snap some pics of the journey if anyone is interested in seeing what it's like in Oak Town. I may need some back up though...

[CharlieBob]

Whether or not it is an authentic statement of St. Paul, which would be the basic premise of your book, is not relevant: it's true as an allusion.

Which is why quoting the bible is pointless. It sounded like you were quoting the bible as a source of authority, but if what you are saying is "true objectively and observably" why the need to quote it from anywhere and not just say it outright?

The love of money is the source of the evil coming out of Wall Street.

That could be debated. I would argue the evil is coming more from government corruption and the desire for power (which you could say money is a manifestation of power, but I would argue it is a symbol of power and not the end goal of power itself).

And don't worry, I am certainly not butt hurt. It would take more than an F bomb on the internet to get me razzed up. I was just curious :)

[Turdacious]

Is shit getting real, or is it kind of overblown via interwebz media love of all drama?

I would like to say both.

Dude in a Benz hit some guy with his car last night. The cell phone video showed the driver sitting there while people blocked the road. Then it looked like a protester faced up to the car and started pounding on his hood. Driver punched the gas.

I don't condone running people over or anything, but I'm not surprised at what happened. The place is a powder keg of sorts. I'm also really not shocked that they fucked up a couple banks yesterday. They had people rumored to be flying in from out of town getting ready to protest during the Johannes Mehserle trial just in case he was acquitted for capping Oscar Grant on NYE a few years back.

Oakland had okay leadership just on a basic "I'm going to get shit done and make a show of being useful" type of level with Jerry Brown, our state's current Governor. Ron Dellums was an incredible failure, and Jean Quan has shown such stunning incompetence that it boggles the mind how she got elected.

I have spent a lot of time working in Oakland as both a volunteer as well as in a professional sense, and it is pretty depressing , even when they're not wrecking banks and shutting down ports. Unless you live in a $2 million home in the Oakland Hills.

I'm thinking of heading down to SF to see what's going on down there this weekend. They'd been talking with the Mayor about packing up a little while back, but they don't get much press. I'll report back if I get insane and go out to either one.

Lee ain't gonna do shit until after the election. You're right about Quan though-- WTF was up with giving all the city workers the day off and forcing all the cops to come to duty (even if they were on vacation)? Hopefully she resigns soon. If you do go, please give us a report-- everything I am getting is filtered through A&G.

[DARTH]

They have ever right to assemble in public places and protest but when their shit puts citizens in danger and shuts down a port it's time for tear gas, firehoses and bean bag rounds.

That dont work, kill a few and the rest will lose their guts for this shit when it goes from being a contact sport to truly dying for what you beleive in.

Again every right to assemble but once their shit puts people in danger (You know tax payers who are part of our Caplitalist system) and fucking up important commerce then they go from citizens to insects in the way.

[Turdacious]

The 1% has been identified.



http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-ep ... ne-percent

[baffled]

Is shit getting real, or is it kind of overblown via interwebz media love of all drama?

I would like to say both.

Dude in a Benz hit some guy with his car last night. The cell phone video showed the driver sitting there while people blocked the road. Then it looked like a protester faced up to the car and started pounding on his hood. Driver punched the gas.

I don't condone running people over or anything, but I'm not surprised at what happened. The place is a powder keg of sorts. I'm also really not shocked that they fucked up a couple banks yesterday. They had people rumored to be flying in from out of town getting ready to protest during the Johannes Mehserle trial just in case he was acquitted for capping Oscar Grant on NYE a few years back.

Oakland had okay leadership just on a basic "I'm going to get shit done and make a show of being useful" type of level with Jerry Brown, our state's current Governor. Ron Dellums was an incredible failure, and Jean Quan has shown such stunning incompetence that it boggles the mind how she got elected.

I have spent a lot of time working in Oakland as both a volunteer as well as in a professional sense, and it is pretty depressing , even when they're not wrecking banks and shutting down ports. Unless you live in a $2 million home in the Oakland Hills.

I'm thinking of heading down to SF to see what's going on down there this weekend. They'd been talking with the Mayor about packing up a little while back, but they don't get much press. I'll report back if I get insane and go out to either one.

Lee ain't gonna do shit until after the election. You're right about Quan though-- WTF was up with giving all the city workers the day off and forcing all the cops to come to duty (even if they were on vacation)? Hopefully she resigns soon. If you do go, please give us a report-- everything I am getting is filtered through A&G.

You got it. This is the most significant social movement of my lifetime. Even if I think they're misguided in where they're directing their rage, it's pretty interesting.

I don't think I really have a choice but to hop on BART and see what this shit show looks like. I'll take the digi and snap whatever pictures I can without getting mobbed.

Wish me luck. It'll have to wait til Saturday though. I've got one of those job things that gets in the way of my shitting on society.

[Turdacious]

Take a tray or twelve of brownies. You'll get in good with Michael Moore quick.

[Sangoma]

The 1% has been identified.



http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-ep ... ne-percent

South Park way of looking at things is probably the best.

[baffled]

Take a tray or twelve of brownies. You'll get in good with Michael Moore quick.

This Michael Moore? http://www.redstate.com/hardcorepreppie ... producers/

[Turdacious]

Try to be understanding. It can't be cheap to feed him.

[Fat Cat]

Whether or not it is an authentic statement of St. Paul, which would be the basic premise of your book, is not relevant: it's true as an allusion.

Which is why quoting the bible is pointless. It sounded like you were quoting the bible as a source of authority, but if what you are saying is "true objectively and observably" why the need to quote it from anywhere and not just say it outright?

Because Turd and I are both Christian and accept the moral authority of the Bible, apart from the subject of whether or not it is inspired literature. "Love thy neighbor as thyself," is win, whether or not God inspired someone to record it. Further, I don't really care about the journalistic veracity of the Bible. 500 years before Jesus, the Buddha observed that all living things flee pain and fly to pleasure; it is common to all animals. Jesus displayed divinity, supernatural qualities, in that he did the opposite out of love. I don't just see that as being nice, I see it as being something unique and amazing.

There's a lot more here: my critique of textual criticism as a field, of Ehrman's particular methods, his own background which is much like James Carroll's, why the KJV Bible is the single greatest literary feat of the English literature, and also why it is as important as a source of literary allusion as much as the Iliad or Virgil. But you get my drift.

The love of money is the source of the evil coming out of Wall Street.

That could be debated. I would argue the evil is coming more from government corruption and the desire for power (which you could say money is a manifestation of power, but I would argue it is a symbol of power and not the end goal of power itself).

Not really. How can government somehow force Wall Street cheats to fuck the working man? It's a laughable premise. How did government create a Madoff, a Raj Rajaratnam? It didn't. I'm no fan of Caesar, but people who blame the government for every ill oversimplify the world. If it's true, as these erstwhile Libertarians assert, that individuals are always better off left to their own self-determination, how can it be that they are all so easily victimized by government? It's a self defeating and circular foolishness.

But yes of course, I agree with you that power over others is also terribly heady and dangerous.

[Turdacious]

Any of our fine IGXers in Oaktown?

I was there about a month ago. Protests didn't seem worth being mentioned at the time. Even the Berkeley crowd didn't really seem to be on the bandwagon yet (even the normal campus activist crowd). Funny how quickly things change.

As an aside, I never thought the Berkeley crowd would be the moderating influence in Oakland-- you expect to see a bunch of worthless anarchist shitbags in protests up and down the west coast -- that is a good thing.

[Thatcher II]

Because Turd and I are both Christian and accept the moral authority of the Bible, apart from the subject of whether or not it is inspired literature. "Love thy neighbor as thyself," is win, whether or not God inspired someone to record it. Further, I don't really care about the journalistic veracity of the Bible. 500 years before Jesus, the Buddha observed that all living things flee pain and fly to pleasure; it is common to all animals. Jesus displayed divinity, supernatural qualities, in that he did the opposite out of love. I don't just see that as being nice, I see it as being something unique and amazing.

So it may not be inspired literature (ie a hidden omnipotent being may not have told human beings what to write).

And journalistic veracity (historical truth) is unimportant.

But you're still saying that what you acknowledge could well be a work of fiction, is a basis for belief in a divine Christ.

Kay.

[CharlieBob]

Because Turd and I are both Christian and accept the moral authority of the Bible, apart from the subject of whether or not it is inspired literature. "Love thy neighbor as thyself," is win, whether or not God inspired someone to record it. Further, I don't really care about the journalistic veracity of the Bible. 500 years before Jesus, the Buddha observed that all living things flee pain and fly to pleasure; it is common to all animals. Jesus displayed divinity, supernatural qualities, in that he did the opposite out of love. I don't just see that as being nice, I see it as being something unique and amazing.

There's a lot more here: my critique of textual criticism as a field, of Ehrman's particular methods, his own background which is much like James Carroll's, why the KJV Bible is the single greatest literary feat of the English literature, and also why it is as important as a source of literary allusion as much as the Iliad or Virgil. But you get my drift.

I am not calling into question the underlying moral values of christianity when interpereted by an inteligant reasonable person. But there is a lot of conflict within the texts and the relevance they have to actual events is... questionable. Does that mean loving all others as yourself is any less noble of an ideal? No, but does it means quoting a historical document gives the idea any more validity? I do not believe so. I absolutely agree that the Bible is as important, in fact I would say it is more important, a literary work as the Iliad or Virgil because it spans such a great time frame of human cultural development and can thus teach us about our past. But that is a different use than the one we were talking about.

I have not watched this movie, but a friend recommended it and I hope to watch it soon. It is called "The Man from Earth" and the premise is this cave man had a genetic mutation that allowed him to live forever. In this clip he is have a discussion about religion with a group of people. Obviously it is a work of fiction, but it is still an interesting discussion.

Not really. How can government somehow force Wall Street cheats to fuck the working man? It's a laughable premise. How did government create a Madoff, a Raj Rajaratnam? It didn't. I'm no fan of Caesar, but people who blame the government for every ill oversimplify the world. If it's true, as these erstwhile Libertarians assert, that individuals are always better off left to their own self-determination, how can it be that they are all so easily victimized by government? It's a self defeating and circular foolishness.

But yes of course, I agree with you that power over others is also terribly heady and dangerous.

When I said "Government Corruption and a desire for power" I did not mean that the desire for power was only held by those corrupt people in the government. Members of Walstreet are certainly guilty of that lust, but were afforded it and not kept in check because of the corruption in the government.

[Fat Cat]

Because Turd and I are both Christian and accept the moral authority of the Bible, apart from the subject of whether or not it is inspired literature. "Love thy neighbor as thyself," is win, whether or not God inspired someone to record it. Further, I don't really care about the journalistic veracity of the Bible. 500 years before Jesus, the Buddha observed that all living things flee pain and fly to pleasure; it is common to all animals. Jesus displayed divinity, supernatural qualities, in that he did the opposite out of love. I don't just see that as being nice, I see it as being something unique and amazing.

So it may not be inspired literature (ie a hidden omnipotent being may not have told human beings what to write).

And journalistic veracity (historical truth) is unimportant.

But you're still saying that what you acknowledge could well be a work of fiction, is a basis for belief in a divine Christ.

Kay.

First, let me say what an honor it is to have a formal General Secretary of the Soviet Union join the discussion. Leaving that aside, you have totally misunderstood and/or mischaracterized what I said. The Bible is not the basis of my beliefs, and it may or may not be true, I don't really know. What is "divine" for me is the teaching, and that requires no blind faith of any kind: "Test all things; hold fast to that which is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)