Paris attacks

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

Right now, they look like the strong horse. That could be easily fixed with firepower.

ISIS attracted MORE followers after they publicized their atrocities because ISIS recruits do not think along the Western "Fair/Not Fair" axis. They care about "Win/Lose" and the Strong Horse (Osama Bin Laden's term).

Followers will stop flocking to ISIS when we humiliate & devastate ISIS. Understanding/respecting them shows weakness, and merits their contempt and further attacks.

ALSO we need to disconnect the Savages from wealth, i.e. Muslim donors, Oil money, etc., because Big Bucks buys the technology to attack the West.

NAILED IT.

This is about lust....might not be a lust we in the west understand, but it's a lust, not a religious movement, per se.

Humiliation and devastation of ISIS is absolutely the way to go....anyone see the pic on the dead terrorist in the back of the Russian truck who shit himself in his tighty whities? Yeah, that kind of humiliation and any act of cowardice by them we can record should be broadcasted. These are basically young, insecure, kids at the operational level.

Disconnect from $$$$ fuck yes to that, too. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend..." and apparently those zany Anonymous guys have some ideas.

[DrDonkeyLove]

OK, 6,000,000 million Muslims in France.
Did, like, say, 1% participate in the attacks?
That'd be, what? 60,000?
Or did like, say, 60, maybe 30. Maybe 20.

You, should take, some writing, lessons,.

I don't look at Timmy's math the same way I think that he does. It took 19 hijackers to kill thousands of Americans, destroy the WTC, alter airline travel forever, and begin two major wars that continue hot and heavy 14 years later. Total cost to AQ, approx $500K. Think about the asymmetrical results of 19 mopes with box cutters and it's astounding.

Unless the Obama administration can properly vet the Syrian refugees (and they can't), the Syrians can't be allowed to wander free in our land. They will, of course, (along with many thousands more) but I'd expect nothing else from Obama.

[syaigh]

Just seems its cool to be a psychopath these days.

[Kazuya Mishima]

http://www.politico.eu/article/the-saud ... -violence/

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

Just seems its cool to be a psychopath these days.

Well, you're the one who wears a kilt and likes to workout with a pitchfork. ;-)

[johno]

Unless the Obama administration can properly vet the Syrian refugees (and they can't), the Syrians can't be allowed to wander free in our land.

Truth.

Example: My little burg claims the most ethnically diverse zip code in the US and my Fire Dept. regularly answers calls to Middle Eastern immigrant households. Somalis mostly. When we write down their date of birth, the vast majority claim "January 1" of some year or other. You know why? Because they don't know and because there's no record of their birthdate.

You can't vet someone from a war torn country that keeps no records.

*****

If we take in Syrian refugees, the odds that one given individual is a Jihadi will be low. But overwhelmingly high when you multiply those odds by 100,000.

Why won't the oil rich Muslim countries in the region accommodate ALL the Muslim Syrian refugees?

[Grandpa's Spells]

ISIS attracted MORE followers after they publicized their atrocities because ISIS recruits do not think along the Western "Fair/Not Fair" axis. They care about "Win/Lose" and the Strong Horse (Osama Bin Laden's term).

Followers will stop flocking to ISIS when we humiliate & devastate ISIS. Understanding/respecting them shows weakness, and merits their contempt and further attacks.

We just spent a decade and a half watching this not work. We couldn't destroy the Taliban, though perhaps the geography worked against us. We were most certainly able to "humiliate and devestate" Al Queda, and then a new organization hangs it's shingle and calls itself Islamic State. Jihadis can rebrand and hop on a new bandwagon. It can happen over and over forever.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

ISIS attracted MORE followers after they publicized their atrocities because ISIS recruits do not think along the Western "Fair/Not Fair" axis. They care about "Win/Lose" and the Strong Horse (Osama Bin Laden's term).

Followers will stop flocking to ISIS when we humiliate & devastate ISIS. Understanding/respecting them shows weakness, and merits their contempt and further attacks.

We just spent a decade and a half watching this not work. We couldn't destroy the Taliban, though perhaps the geography worked against us. We were most most certainly able to "humiliate and devestate" Al Queda, and then a new organization hangs it's shingle and calls itself Islamic State. Jihadis can rebrand and hop on a new bandwagon. It can happen over and over forever.

No, Spells, no. We did nothing to humiliate those savages and in fact, your boy, The Obama with his spec op and drone strikes here and there was sure to at least paint a picture of appeasement, too. (Our traitor coward army deserter, freeing known terrorist, on and on). Sometimes, you can't be all flashy, high speed and low drag about it. Sometimes, people need to get thrown down the stairs and maybe a little American History X curbside action might work better....especially if said curb is covered in bacon grease.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

Unless the Obama administration can properly vet the Syrian refugees (and they can't), the Syrians can't be allowed to wander free in our land.

Truth.

Example: My little burg claims the most ethnically diverse zip code in the US and my Fire Dept. regularly answers calls to Middle Eastern immigrant households. Somalis mostly. When we write down their date of birth, the vast majority claim "January 1" of some year or other. You know why? Because they don't know and because there's no record of their birthdate.

You can't vet someone from a war torn country that keeps no records.

*****

If we take in Syrian refugees, the odds that one given individual is a Jihadi will be low. But overwhelmingly high when you multiply those odds by 100,000.

Why won't the oil rich Muslim countries in the region accommodate ALL the Muslim Syrian refugees?

20+ year old problem, though. In the mid-90's, America's most dangerous job was livery cab driver in NYC. These were gypsy cab drivers who would work shitty neighborhoods because medallion cabs would not pick up blacks, ect (yes, even the black drivers did not pick up blacks). Almost all of these guys were named "Mammadou"......I mean almost all. Everything they would provide in terms of ID was bullshit....to include that 1 January DOB. Old news, I mean this news is so old, Al Gore had not yet invented the internet, old.

I agree, the thought of vetting these people is fucking stupid.....it is mostly impossible as are round-ups of illegals and/or refugees who are already here. Which is why, I keep saying, you need to apply some simple operant conditioning to the end game and 'keeping them out' is not the way to strike appropriate fear into the hearts of the despicable.

[Grandpa's Spells]

No, Spells, no. We did nothing to humiliate those savages and in fact, your boy.

Dude. We killed top leadership for a decade, sent captives to black sites and "interrogated" them, bombed them whenever they gathered en masse, denied them further attacks in the US, and shot bin Laden in the head and threw his body in the ocean so he couldn't have a grave. If you think that's "nothing" you need to describe "something."

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

No, Spells, no. We did nothing to humiliate those savages and in fact, your boy.

Dude. We killed top leadership for a decade, sent captives to black sites and "interrogated" them, bombed them whenever they gathered en masse, denied them further attacks in the US, and shot bin Laden in the head and threw his body in the ocean so he couldn't have a grave. If you think that's "nothing" you need to describe "something."

You make them understand every time one of them dies by the hands of the west, we will do so in such a way that makes it impossible for them to have glory. That's first....we need to make it utterly unsexy to be an ISIS dude. What is second, is understand, these young guys are young guys......they are not religious zealots even if they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night or some such shit. These guys we are talking about (today) drink, do blow, watch porn, have fag sex, rape, pillage, party like rockstars and record it all on iPhones.

[Grandpa's Spells]

You make them understand

That's a goal, not an explanation of what you'd do to accomplish it.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

You make them understand

That's a goal, not an explanation of what you'd do to accomplish it.

Uh, I already answered that question a few posts back.....you can't just do sexy drone strikes. You have to push some down the stairs, shove a Jimmy Dean breakfast sausage in their mouth and you American History X their asses.....in my own colorful, but perhaps tacky way, I am saying you make it up close and personal and if they are here (and they are here), you don't wait for Officer Friendly to do your dirty work. In your case, given where you live, I would stay close to Da'Shawn and his boys as they'll be the only ones with guns besides the ISIS guys.

[SubClaw]

We nuked Japan twice and now it's a nice, friendly, prosperous country.

[Grandpa's Spells]

No, Spells, no. We did nothing to humiliate those savages and in fact, your boy.

Dude. We killed top leadership for a decade, sent captives to black sites and "interrogated" them, bombed them whenever they gathered en masse, denied them further attacks in the US, and shot bin Laden in the head and threw his body in the ocean so he couldn't have a grave. If you think that's "nothing" you need to describe "something."

You make them understand every time one of them dies by the hands of the west, we will do so in such a way that makes it impossible for them to have glory. That's first....we need to make it utterly unsexy to be an ISIS dude. What is second, is understand, these young guys are young guys......they are not religious zealots even if they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night or some such shit. These guys we are talking about (today) drink, do blow, watch porn, have fag sex, rape, pillage, party like rockstars and record it all on iPhones.

A dead guy with pork in his mouth doesn't understand anything - he's dead. (And if he's already doing haram shit, pork isn't really a big deal).

If you mean do that and then publicizing it, I don't think the typical 16-year-old devout-but-not-militant Muslim is going to learn what you want him to. He's going to react similarly to an American seeing pictures of an American civilian or service member being crucified by ISIS.

When those Somali pirates got capped by SEALs and the violence of it was publicized, other pirates didn't get cowed into submission. They executed the next Americans they caught in retaliation.

ISIS cuts a former Ranger's head off and we don't think, "Gee, don't fuck with ISIS." GOP candidates are trying to out-crazy each other on how bad they want to go to war. The French wanted fuck all to do with Iraq. They're going there now. And if we make them look bad, a new Jihadi group comes up for the next radical kids to join.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

Haram only matters to those who are legit....but my bacon grease quips are more for those who are intrigued about joining vs. already dead.

You are missing the point that these guys are not profit and survival driven nutjobs (like Somali pirates) nor are they really, and let me be delicate in my use of language here....'religious' in the Al Queda sense. The kids being recruited are not 'radical' but are being indoctrinated in a sophisticated way it seems. Clean shaven, skinny jeans, iPhones and Axe hair pomade, even. Different person we are looking to kill these days, entirely.

Clearly you're opposed to any violent option, care to share your ideas on what would work?

[TerryB]

In for Spells's answer.

One thing we haven't tried is killing the families of the jihadis.

[Grandpa's Spells]

Clearly you're opposed to any violent option, care to share your ideas on what would work?

Follow the example of other prosperous nations who don't have a jihad problem and don't meddle in the M.E. affairs.

I think in the past, we've promoted anti-democratic policies in the Muslim world for a few reasons: because stability is better than chaos, wildly fluctuating oil prices there are very inconvenient, support for Israel, and the kind of dickish stuff we did propping up Saddam, Afghan Jihadis, and the Saudis etc. didn't really have any blowback on us. That's not really true any more. Civilians, the military, and veterans pay that bill. We should re-evaluate whether it's worth it.

It's possible leaving that place to rot or fix their own issues isn't the best option. Israel, Saudi, Iraq, Iran. Wipe your hands, tell them good luck. Humanitarian support for refugees. If an ally needs help repelling an invasion, we can talk about it. But we don't really have any allies there.

I don't think they'll follow us here, especially with no bone to pick. They don't go after the Portuguese or Swedes. The vacuum there will create any number of new assholes to jihad against.

If there was a realistic short-term war option I'd be all for it. Occupying a Muslim country until terrorism is wiped out and a Western-friendly democracy takes root is probably impossible. Given that, any military option has to have an achievable goal.

I think benign neglect is something you should try before genocide, nukes, or deliberately murdering innocent family members of terrorists.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

But I think we all agree we are herding cats across the globe at this point. Your idea, was perhaps a fine one if we can turn back the way back clock to the mid-70's, but given today's challenges, today's ability to communicate on a global platform AND in terms of the most current threat (ISIS) while they most definitely hide behind the veil of jihad, they're a bunch of wild party dogs.

Assuming what I said above is true, now what?

[Grandpa's Spells]

I'm not sure I follow the reasoning on why modern communication makes things different. We can treat the Middle East the same way we treat Africa and SE Asia any time we want.

[johno]

A surprisingly cogent IS analysis from The Atlantic

Per the article, one principle of ISIS: control of territory -> Caliphate. Don't tell me the non-Muslim powers of this world can't unseat ISIS from its territory and deprive it of its "moral authority."

We don't have to make this harder than it is. I.e., we needn't Nation Build, which is politically impossible. Fuck, even Trump has this figured out.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

I'm not sure I follow the reasoning on why modern communication makes things different. We can treat the Middle East the same way we treat Africa and SE Asia any time we want.

Because, as you have witnessed, this particular group (and you keep wanting to deflect up to ME vs. get granular with the ISIS conversation), is media and global communication savvy. And they have a 'sizzle' that other groups apparently don't, in other orgs or areas.

I.E. you keep thinking it's "the way we treat them" vs. our way of life vs. theirs. And this group.....ISIS, clearly wants that west instant gratification along with all the virgins if they die in a blaze of glory. And if they fuck a bunch of guys in the ass named Bruce or Carl, and do an 8th of blow while doing so, they are cool with that, too.

[Gene]

Given that, it may be useful to take the fact that ISIS didn't hit an American target to decide exactly what we want to do. The French don't really have a choice, they have to attack. But the Swiss don't really have anything to worry about. We've been compromising our principles in the ME for a long time in the name of "stability," "national interest," and "Israel." Maybe our interests have changed.

Someone go light a candle. I agree with Spells.

Time to mind our own damn business. Let the Israelis fight their own battles, the Saudis and Kuwaitis fight their own battles and let people over there settle their own damn hash.

[johno]

When you're the biggest badass in the n'hood and there's a psycho murdering people two blocks down, do you wait until he kicks down your door?
ISIS has named the US as its enemy (among others). Let's not wait for the door-kick.

[buckethead]

Hacker group Anonymous have apparently responded to the attacks on Paris by posting a video declaration of war against the terrorist group that calls itself "Islamic State."

In the as-yet-unverified video, posted on YouTube, a spokesperson wearing the group's signature Guy Fawkes mask, said the group of hackers would use its expertise to wage "war" on the militant group.

"Expect massive cyber attacks. War is declared. Get prepared," the announcer says in French.

Finally, a worthy adversary

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/16/anonymou ... state.html