primary school shooting

[TerryB]

We'll never know, but I wonder if the heroic teacher that hid her kids in a closet would have wanted a gun when she was standing in front the door and waiting for the evil fuck murder to walk into her room? I wonder if the other teachers who heard the screams of children at the school, wished they had a gun.

A shotgun in every classroom! What could go wrong.

if you don't have the goddamn common sense to protect at least yourself, you deserve nothing but chains. If you don't have enough of a soul to defend the innocent being slaughtered, you are a coward and definitely deserve the chains of slavery.

Yes because that is what this is all about: stupid, soulless cowards who don't care about kids vs. the hero's with double Glocks on their hips, shotguns bolted under their desk, and tears in their eyes as they protect the innocent. Get a fucking grip.

[syaigh]

Well, I don't know who's to blame. But someone is.

Sounds like Momma is a bit of a whack job with her assault rifle collection. Sorry, but I don't see the need to own a weapon that is really only good for killing a whole lot of things at once unless you intend on killing a whole lot of things at once. And apparently took her emotionally disturbed/mentally ill son to the shooting range. Maybe she felt it would empower him. Mommas often think there must be some magic bandaid to make their babies all better, but guns usually aren't the bandaid.

So, you have a perfect storm of momma with bad judgement, an affinity for instruments of death, and a child who was most likely a complete sociopath. Could anyone else have known what was going on there? Probably not. Sounds like big brother wasn't involved, who knows about dad. And since the divorce, she probably wasn't sharing with him either. Who knows, maybe the assault rifles were intended for daddy.

Can we police whackjob secretive parents doing stupid shit at home? I don't think so. If we could, there would be a lot less child rape, child abuse, and child murder in general. I don't have an answer other than there is evil in the world and when given a gift-wrapped opportunity to express it, well, its going to happen. Maybe if momma only had knives she would have been sliced to ribbons and that would have been the end of it. I don't know, but I think its a lot easier to shoot a gun than kill someone with a knife. Maybe it would be less likely.

Who knows. I don't for sure.

1) there is only one main reason to own a semi auto rifle; to kill tyrants and to protect you and yours. The mark of a free man or woman is the possession of arms. This is the distinction between a slave and the free. You either have the means to resist or you don't. If you don't! you are a slave. The fact my AK47s, AR15s, my mini 14, my SKS rifles, & my Browning BAR 3006 scare the shit out of all the right people, tells me I have the right arms.

2) an ar15 is not an Assualt rifle. if it was an assault rifle it would be select ire, i.e. automatic fire versus semi auto. Many people love using this term because it's scary; it sounds so very military and is used as a way to justify banning civilian ownership. I can name three civilian hunting rifles that other than appearance operate the exact same way as the AR 15 this evil fucks mom owned. Since we are on the subject, this fucktard could have easily killed the same amount of people with a Remington 870 shotgun or revolvers.

3) you hit the nail on the head with moms questionable judgement taking her autistic teen son shooting. I'm really surprised this facet of the story hasn't been decussed more. The autism lobby had better get ahead of the curve on this. This kids condition contributed to the shooting. I base this on working with autistic children and my best friends son whomis a high fuctioning autistic kid. No fucking way should autistic people be let near a gun. Some news outfit is going to make the connection and then the scare mongering news stories about autistic murders stalking the streets of the USA will fill the airwaves.

Here is a constructive plan for dealing with these Evil killing Fucks

If one or two teachers had a gun on them, they just may have saved some people. But God no, guns are evil! Better to declare schools "Gun Free" zones, trust in locked doors and hope he cops get there in time.

Gun Free Zones= death trap.

You want to protect children at schools? Arm he staff and teachers.

Well, I obviously know nothing about guns not used for fair hunting, but it was a lot of firepower. And quite frankly, you may be a reasonable person, but I don't like that there are a lot of unreasonable people with those same weapons.

My grandfather was a Marine and a Game Warden. He had a lot of guns, knew a lot about guns, used them regularly. I never would have had a problem with him having whatever guns he wanted. I guess I feel that if you are going to have that kind of firepower, it comes with an undertanding of the responsibility and mastery it takes to use and own them. I have serious doubts that this woman had either of those. That's my opinion, nothing more, but she clearly failed in the judgement department.

Arm the teachers? I don't think so. Have a TRAINED officer at the school? Yeah, that's an idea. But the hundreds of hours it would take to train the teachers and staff to respond safely with a gun in an emergency just isn't worth it. They aren't paid enough as it is. And its not what they are trained to do.

You have absolutely no idea what it takes to get con led weapons permit, do you? If you didn't you would not have posted what you just did.

So many unreasonable people. Define this for us? Because these events are rare and believe it or not declining. I would like to know about these people. Is just people that disagree with you? Because this whole discussion on who is reasonable is very subjective. Are there any other unalienable rights listed and guaranteed by the US Constitution would you like to limit to "Reasonable" people?

Even then, Germany has all the "reasonable" laws you seem to want. It did nothing to stop a mass murder at a school. Like I stated a couple pages ago, let's dispense with this "reasonable" half measures bullshit fantasy you are I gauging in. They won't do what you want them to do and end with a total ban and gun confiscation. If that is what you want admit it and let's move on.


We'll never know, but I wonder if the heroic teacher that hid her kids in a closet would have wanted a gun when she was standing in front the door and waiting for the evil fuck murder to walk into her room? I wonder if the other teachers who heard the screams of children at the school, wished they had a gun. This isn't about being paid more etc. if you don't have the goddamn common sense to protect at least yourself, you deserve nothing but chains. If you don't have enough of a soul to defend the innocent being slaughtered, you are a coward and definitely deserve the chains of slavery.

You're right I don't. Never said I did. And yet this guy's mom must have had one, right? And she is unreasonable as fuck to me. And lots of stupid assholes who love their guns and don't have enough sense to tell their ass from their elbow have lots and lots of guns. I'm not proposing we take away guns. I'm blaming this whack job stupid bitch for having these guns and being too irresponsible and unreasonable to have owned it safely.

And yet, your solution is to arm people who probably want nothing to do with guns, they want to be teachers, not security guards.

What if that teacher had a gun? Like MOST people who weren't military or law enforcement trained, all she would probably manage to do would be unholster it before being shot in the face. And you can't guide children to safety while trying to shoot a gun. YOu have to be focused on the task at hand and escape is always the best option when faced with a gun fight. Everyone knows that.

Your fantasy of teachers taking down the bad guys is a good one indeed, but it is just a fantasy. Have you ever taught in a school? volunteered in a school? Worked with kids in a school? You can keep all your guns on your compound and shoot the shit out of whatever tyrants you imagine lurking in the shadows, but this is a RIDICULOUS idea that should never come to fruition. The only people who should have guns in schools should be trained for the specific purpose of providing protection, and not teaching while trying to also always be vigilant. That would and could never work, unless of course you want to hand over the schools to the military. But, now we begin to have that pesky little tyrant problem, now don't we.

[Batboy2/75]

First with the defending against tyrants. The last time Americans used their small arms to defend against tyrants, they also had full-on Armies with equivalent artillery, a Navy, and outside help. You should ask yourself how well that worked out for the Confederate States of America. Your lack of MANPADs, fully automatic heavy weaponry, RPGs, armed air support, 24/7 ISR, etc. fucking etc. means you will be a speed bump when the tyrants in Washington decide to conquer your little neck of the woods. We can on 24 hour notice circle the globe and kick the shit out of entire countries. Your small little county will be a joke, assigned to some unit that didn't cut the mustard for the real stuff. In short, your guns are not what are going to keep you from being tyranted.

Darth, how many of those 22 kids died in the knife attack? When the attacker goes into the corner to start carving up the little ones instead of blocking the door and plinking them from a few feet awat, thus leaving an egress avenue open, how many could run out?

The Bushmaster that was used by the douche in Sandy Hook, used by the DC sniper, and used by the shooter in Colorado, albeit with a hundred run drum mag rather than multiple 30 round mags, is designed for killing people. It is light so you can bring it up quick and keep it up while you're moving. Barrel in line with stock so recoil doesn't cause the barrel to rise and you can double-tap your targets. Big magazine so you don't have to husband your ammo, using multiple shots to ensure the target is hit rather than slow aim. Small rounds again so recoil doesn't slow the targeting. The dude had two handguns, yet the Bushmaster was his go-to kid eliminator. Why? Because the gun was optimized for a functionality that includes scenarios like what occurred in Sandy Hook.

I'm not Joe Ranger Infrantry, but I've shot some thousand rounds with an M-16 to include rapid reaction drills and CQC along with shooting shotguns and hunting rifles. Like any tool, each is optimized for a purpose. The Bushmaster is optimized for Sandy Hook and Colorado Movie Theatre scenarios.

He didn't make a bomb, because you actually have to do work to make them, and it is highly likely they won't work or hopefully they blow up, killing the perp. Figuring out how to make a bomb leaves a trail of purchases, internet searches, stuff bought, time spent with the door locked while you try to assemble it, evidence if you try to test it before using it (he had plenty of practice with the Bushmaster) and mom probably didn't include bomb making with her gun nuttery.

Evil is going to be around. I want to stop making it easy for them.

How is Afghanistan going for our 24hour military? How in the hell are the Syrians getting their asses kicked?

Read up on Siimo Hahya. A 5'5" Finnish woodsman killed over 500 soviet butchers during the winter war and tied up at least a soviet regiment trying to kill him. All armed with? A 5 shot bolt action rifle designed and fielded in 1891.

[TerryB]

Sounds like Momma is a bit of a whack job with her assault rifle collection.... you have a perfect storm of momma with bad judgement....she is unreasonable as fuck to me.

I didn't pay much attention to the rest of what you are saying but I think you're really jumping to conclusions her. You may be right, or you may be wrong, but you're really labeling and judging this woman based on very few facts. For all we know, she had those weapons safely secured in her home. Then her son found/stole the keys, opened the safe, and shot his mother four times in the head. In what world do you assume she's the bad actor here?? That's a rhetorical question. I don't really care about your answer.

I think someone had an interesting point earlier that is worth exploring: why are these fucks always on antipsychotic medication? And isn't psychosis and suicidal ideation, etc, often listed as a side effect? What does Pfizer know and when did it know it?

[Batboy2/75]

Well, I don't know who's to blame. But someone is.

Sounds like Momma is a bit of a whack job with her assault rifle collection. Sorry, but I don't see the need to own a weapon that is really only good for killing a whole lot of things at once unless you intend on killing a whole lot of things at once. And apparently took her emotionally disturbed/mentally ill son to the shooting range. Maybe she felt it would empower him. Mommas often think there must be some magic bandaid to make their babies all better, but guns usually aren't the bandaid.

So, you have a perfect storm of momma with bad judgement, an affinity for instruments of death, and a child who was most likely a complete sociopath. Could anyone else have known what was going on there? Probably not. Sounds like big brother wasn't involved, who knows about dad. And since the divorce, she probably wasn't sharing with him either. Who knows, maybe the assault rifles were intended for daddy.

Can we police whackjob secretive parents doing stupid shit at home? I don't think so. If we could, there would be a lot less child rape, child abuse, and child murder in general. I don't have an answer other than there is evil in the world and when given a gift-wrapped opportunity to express it, well, its going to happen. Maybe if momma only had knives she would have been sliced to ribbons and that would have been the end of it. I don't know, but I think its a lot easier to shoot a gun than kill someone with a knife. Maybe it would be less likely.

Who knows. I don't for sure.

1) there is only one main reason to own a semi auto rifle; to kill tyrants and to protect you and yours. The mark of a free man or woman is the possession of arms. This is the distinction between a slave and the free. You either have the means to resist or you don't. If you don't! you are a slave. The fact my AK47s, AR15s, my mini 14, my SKS rifles, & my Browning BAR 3006 scare the shit out of all the right people, tells me I have the right arms.

2) an ar15 is not an Assualt rifle. if it was an assault rifle it would be select ire, i.e. automatic fire versus semi auto. Many people love using this term because it's scary; it sounds so very military and is used as a way to justify banning civilian ownership. I can name three civilian hunting rifles that other than appearance operate the exact same way as the AR 15 this evil fucks mom owned. Since we are on the subject, this fucktard could have easily killed the same amount of people with a Remington 870 shotgun or revolvers.

3) you hit the nail on the head with moms questionable judgement taking her autistic teen son shooting. I'm really surprised this facet of the story hasn't been decussed more. The autism lobby had better get ahead of the curve on this. This kids condition contributed to the shooting. I base this on working with autistic children and my best friends son whomis a high fuctioning autistic kid. No fucking way should autistic people be let near a gun. Some news outfit is going to make the connection and then the scare mongering news stories about autistic murders stalking the streets of the USA will fill the airwaves.

Here is a constructive plan for dealing with these Evil killing Fucks

If one or two teachers had a gun on them, they just may have saved some people. But God no, guns are evil! Better to declare schools "Gun Free" zones, trust in locked doors and hope he cops get there in time.

Gun Free Zones= death trap.

You want to protect children at schools? Arm he staff and teachers.

Well, I obviously know nothing about guns not used for fair hunting, but it was a lot of firepower. And quite frankly, you may be a reasonable person, but I don't like that there are a lot of unreasonable people with those same weapons.

My grandfather was a Marine and a Game Warden. He had a lot of guns, knew a lot about guns, used them regularly. I never would have had a problem with him having whatever guns he wanted. I guess I feel that if you are going to have that kind of firepower, it comes with an undertanding of the responsibility and mastery it takes to use and own them. I have serious doubts that this woman had either of those. That's my opinion, nothing more, but she clearly failed in the judgement department.

Arm the teachers? I don't think so. Have a TRAINED officer at the school? Yeah, that's an idea. But the hundreds of hours it would take to train the teachers and staff to respond safely with a gun in an emergency just isn't worth it. They aren't paid enough as it is. And its not what they are trained to do.

You have absolutely no idea what it takes to get con led weapons permit, do you? If you didn't you would not have posted what you just did.

So many unreasonable people. Define this for us? Because these events are rare and believe it or not declining. I would like to know about these people. Is just people that disagree with you? Because this whole discussion on who is reasonable is very subjective. Are there any other unalienable rights listed and guaranteed by the US Constitution would you like to limit to "Reasonable" people?

Even then, Germany has all the "reasonable" laws you seem to want. It did nothing to stop a mass murder at a school. Like I stated a couple pages ago, let's dispense with this "reasonable" half measures bullshit fantasy you are I gauging in. They won't do what you want them to do and end with a total ban and gun confiscation. If that is what you want admit it and let's move on.


We'll never know, but I wonder if the heroic teacher that hid her kids in a closet would have wanted a gun when she was standing in front the door and waiting for the evil fuck murder to walk into her room? I wonder if the other teachers who heard the screams of children at the school, wished they had a gun. This isn't about being paid more etc. if you don't have the goddamn common sense to protect at least yourself, you deserve nothing but chains. If you don't have enough of a soul to defend the innocent being slaughtered, you are a coward and definitely deserve the chains of slavery.

You're right I don't. Never said I did. And yet this guy's mom must have had one, right? And she is unreasonable as fuck to me. And lots of stupid assholes who love their guns and don't have enough sense to tell their ass from their elbow have lots and lots of guns. I'm not proposing we take away guns. I'm blaming this whack job stupid bitch for having these guns and being too irresponsible and unreasonable to have owned it safely.

And yet, your solution is to arm people who probably want nothing to do with guns, they want to be teachers, not security guards.

What if that teacher had a gun? Like MOST people who weren't military or law enforcement trained, all she would probably manage to do would be unholster it before being shot in the face. And you can't guide children to safety while trying to shoot a gun. YOu have to be focused on the task at hand and escape is always the best option when faced with a gun fight. Everyone knows that.

Your fantasy of teachers taking down the bad guys is a good one indeed, but it is just a fantasy. Have you ever taught in a school? volunteered in a school? Worked with kids in a school? You can keep all your guns on your compound and shoot the shit out of whatever tyrants you imagine lurking in the shadows, but this is a RIDICULOUS idea that should never come to fruition. The only people who should have guns in schools should be trained for the specific purpose of providing protection, and not teaching while trying to also always be vigilant. That would and could never work, unless of course you want to hand over the schools to the military. But, now we begin to have that pesky little tyrant problem, now don't we.

My solution is to arm those that want to be armed. In the absence of teachers willing to be armed, have armed guards. REALLY not like the strawman you constructed. Plus, even if it was, we both know, that if only one teacher had a gun, the shooter would have been stopped. How do I know this? Because the evil fuck offed himself the moment a person with a gun showed up and pointed it at him.

If you aren't smart enough to learn from history and if our society has sheltered you to the point that you can not see the danger from a state that increasingly concentrates power in the hands of a small few; then I hope your future chains rest lightly on you and your children.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Sounds like Momma is a bit of a whack job with her assault rifle collection.... you have a perfect storm of momma with bad judgement....she is unreasonable as fuck to me.

I didn't pay much attention to the rest of what you are saying but I think you're really jumping to conclusions her. You may be right, or you may be wrong, but you're really labeling and judging this woman based on very few facts. For all we know, she had those weapons safely secured in her home. Then her son found/stole the keys, opened the safe, and shot his mother four times in the head. In what world do you assume she's the bad actor here?? That's a rhetorical question. I don't really care about your answer.

I think someone had an interesting point earlier that is worth exploring: why are these fucks always on antipsychotic medication? And isn't psychosis and suicidal ideation, etc, often listed as a side effect? What does Pfizer know and when did it know it?

This is a AMERIKA...we have to blame someone right away so that we can ban something and feel better before the Christmas shopping season is totally wasted.

[TerryB]

Bats, how do you square the fact that this fuck's parent apparently had similar views to yours re: guns, tyranny, and economic peril?

[syaigh]

Sounds like Momma is a bit of a whack job with her assault rifle collection.... you have a perfect storm of momma with bad judgement....she is unreasonable as fuck to me.

I didn't pay much attention to the rest of what you are saying but I think you're really jumping to conclusions her. You may be right, or you may be wrong, but you're really labeling and judging this woman based on very few facts. For all we know, she had those weapons safely secured in her home. Then her son found/stole the keys, opened the safe, and shot his mother four times in the head. In what world do you assume she's the bad actor here?? That's a rhetorical question. I don't really care about your answer.

I think someone had an interesting point earlier that is worth exploring: why are these fucks always on antipsychotic medication? And isn't psychosis and suicidal ideation, etc, often listed as a side effect? What does Pfizer know and when did it know it?

She told her friends she was taking her son to the shooting range to shoot it. He obviously knew she had it and where. Pretty easy to conclude she was not being responsible. And I'm sorry, but rich mom in a quiet neighborhood with war toys? Something is very off there.

[johno]

Why? Because the gun was optimized for a functionality that includes scenarios like what occurred in Sandy Hook.

Why? We don't know why. Possibly because the "assault rifle" has been fetishized by the media.

What did the Assault Rifle Ban (now lapsed) accomplish? Nothing.
Would it have prevented this mass murder? Doubtful.

The Bushmaster is optimized for Sandy Hook and Colorado Movie Theatre scenarios.

In the Aurora CO murders and in the Portland mall murders, the mechanics of the "assault rifle" hindered the murderers. Due the the complexity of their weapons, both had stoppages that reduced the body count.
The Aurora shooter had no such problem with his pump shotgun.

So, what are we going to ban?
And what Fourth Amendment rights will we trample to achieve this?

[Batboy2/75]

Bats, how do you square the fact that this fuck's parent apparently had similar views to yours re: guns, tyranny, and economic peril?

Strawman argument. How do you know their views match mine? Nor do I have a troubled teen I take shooting. Nor do I leave my weapons unsecured.

What do their views have to do with it? The unibomber shares views with good sizable number of leftists, yet we are not suffering from leftist bombers are we?

Evil people are evil people. In the end it was the little fucking bastard that was looking 5 years in the eye and pulling the trigger.

[syaigh]

My solution is to arm those that want to be armed. In the absence of teachers willing to be armed, have armed guards. REALLY not like the strawman you constructed. Plus, even if it was, we both know, that if only one teacher had a gun, the shooter would have been stopped. How do I know this? Because the evil fuck offed himself the moment a person with a gun showed up and pointed it at him.

If you aren't smart enough to learn from history and if our society has sheltered you to the point that you can not see the danger from a state that increasingly concentrates power in the hands of a small few; then I hope your future chains rest lightly on you and your children.

What straw man did I construct?

So, a few teachers want to be armed. Would the responsibility always rest on them to defend the school? And what if they failed to do so? Its ludicrous, its not the military. Teachers don't go to school to "give their lives".

I'm glad you have hindsight. Congratulations. Its quite a gift.

I'm plenty smart. And not really sheltered at all. Why do you have to insult me because I have more experience in the school system than you do and know that your answer won't work?

I think you need to reread what I've written. You seem to think I don't believe in the right to bear arms and support Tyranny in all its forms. You perhaps should move to Idaho, more militia compounds out that way I hear.

I just think mom was irresponsible with her gun interests. And that arming teachers is unreasonable.

[johno]

Hey! I've got a great solution to the Copycat murder problem: Ban media coverage of mass murders.
Surely the First Amendment wasn't intended for such sensationalism.

[TerryB]

Bats, how do you square the fact that this fuck's parent apparently had similar views to yours re: guns, tyranny, and economic peril?

Strawman argument. How do you know their views match mine? Nor do I have a troubled teen I take shooting. Nor do I leave my weapons unsecured.

No argument and I definitey don't mean to imply anything about you as a person or as a parent. But I do think people may want to question how rational it is to have this crazy-eyed view of some supposed tyranny and stockpiling arms, defending their supposed right to own 27 AR-15s, etc.

Not all lunatics have these views, but a fair number do. The fuck in Norway (Anders?) has right -wing views correctly described as extremist. Tim McVeigh. It's not unusual to find wackjobs on the right letting their paranoia get the best of them, and unfortuantely for the rest of us, they seem to enjoy heavy weaponry and bomb-making.

And yes there are crazies of all stripes yada yada yada

I just think the paranoid mindset that leads to the rants you're prone to should be ... evaluated.

[syaigh]

Hey! I've got a great solution to the Copycat murder problem: Ban media coverage of mass murders.
Surely the First Amendment wasn't intended for such sensationalism.

Yes.

In the wake of these things, I'm always worried about the after shocks. Damn media. It was hard sending my kids to school today.

[Yes I Have Balls]

Plus, even if it was, we both know, that if only one teacher had a gun, the shooter would have been stopped. How do I know this? Because the evil fuck offed himself the moment a person with a gun showed up and pointed it at him.

You're fond of the word strawman. I understand, it sound like you know what you're talking about.

You and I BOTH don't know what a teacher with a gun would have done. I mean, there's a reason why the words "Kindergarten teacher" and "armed and trained to kill" aren't used in the same sentence very often.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Hey! I've got a great solution to the Copycat murder problem: Ban media coverage of mass murders.

There's probably a better, less comfortable less reflexive debate about the role the media and our hunger for it helps creates the ground for this to happen. That's the debate we won't have and should.

[Batboy2/75]

My solution is to arm those that want to be armed. In the absence of teachers willing to be armed, have armed guards. REALLY not like the strawman you constructed. Plus, even if it was, we both know, that if only one teacher had a gun, the shooter would have been stopped. How do I know this? Because the evil fuck offed himself the moment a person with a gun showed up and pointed it at him.

If you aren't smart enough to learn from history and if our society has sheltered you to the point that you can not see the danger from a state that increasingly concentrates power in the hands of a small few; then I hope your future chains rest lightly on you and your children.

What straw man did I construct?

So, a few teachers want to be armed. Would the responsibility always rest on them to defend the school? And what if they failed to do so? Its ludicrous, its not the military. Teachers don't go to school to "give their lives".

I'm glad you have hindsight. Congratulations. Its quite a gift.

I'm plenty smart. And not really sheltered at all. Why do you have to insult me because I have more experience in the school system than you do and know that your answer won't work?

I think you need to reread what I've written. You seem to think I don't believe in the right to bear arms and support Tyranny in all its forms. You perhaps should move to Idaho, more militia compounds out that way I hear.

I just think mom was irresponsible with her gun interests. And that arming teachers is unreasonable.

Your original statement about my proposal rest upon three fallacies

1- I want all teachers armed
2- I want to force teachers to be armed
3- That I believe ANY solution is 100% fail safe

[I'd Hit It]

I have noticed in the news that the same people who argue for teachers to be armed or at least ready to deal with armed gunmen also argue teachers are lazy and should not have better salaries or benefits because they are leeches on our society, or something. So cut the pay of the people you also expect to carry and defend your children against people laying siege to the school with semiautomatics?

[Blaidd Drwg]

I have noticed in the news that the same people who argue for teachers to be armed or at least ready to deal with armed gunmen also argue teachers are lazy and should not have better salaries or benefits because they are leeches on our society, or something. So cut the pay of the people you also expect to carry and defend your children against people laying siege to the school with semiautomatics?

Now that's a Strawman! Well played..playa.

[TerryB]

Hey! I've got a great solution to the Copycat murder problem: Ban media coverage of mass murders.

There's probably a better, less comfortable less reflexive debate about the role the media and our hunger for it helps creates the ground for this to happen. That's the debate we won't have and should.

There's probably all sorts of debates we should/could have about the various intangibles that create the sickness we've seen in Aurora, Newtown, etc. Do they ever (a) happen, and (b) make a difference? If a culture is sick, it doesn't heal itself.

[TerryB]

re: teachers being armed.... it wouldn't be that long before we'd hear of a teacher shooting up the bratty kids in his or her 8th grade science class.

[Batboy2/75]

Bats, how do you square the fact that this fuck's parent apparently had similar views to yours re: guns, tyranny, and economic peril?

Strawman argument. How do you know their views match mine? Nor do I have a troubled teen I take shooting. Nor do I leave my weapons unsecured.

No argument and I definitey don't mean to imply anything about you as a person or as a parent. But I do think people may want to question how rational it is to have this crazy-eyed view of some supposed tyranny and stockpiling arms, defending their supposed right to own 27 AR-15s, etc.

Not all lunatics have these views, but a fair number do. The fuck in Norway (Anders?) has right -wing views correctly described as extremist. Tim McVeigh. It's not unusual to find wackjobs on the right letting their paranoia get the best of them, and unfortuantely for the rest of us, they seem to enjoy heavy weaponry and bomb-making.

And yes there are crazies of all stripes yada yada yada

I just think the paranoid mindset that leads to the rants you're prone to should be ... evaluated.

Right on schedule the McVeigh argument. McVey was a National Socialist that hated everything I believe in. But go on, please keep spreading the lie he was an American Right winger. Maybe a European Right winger, but definitely not on the American right.

I have none of weasel habits of insulting while "not trying to to imply". So I just end our conversation with this. Start another post with what you believe My beliefs are and I'll be more than happy to engage you there latter on today.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Hey! I've got a great solution to the Copycat murder problem: Ban media coverage of mass murders.

There's probably a better, less comfortable less reflexive debate about the role the media and our hunger for it helps creates the ground for this to happen. That's the debate we won't have and should.

There's probably all sorts of debates we should/could have about the various intangibles that create the sickness we've seen in Aurora, Newtown, etc. Do they ever (a) happen, and (b) make a difference? If a culture is sick, it doesn't heal itself.

I don't accept the premise that the culture is sick...but yes I think we do have discussions that get us closer to OK with something. It's a long slog, but it happens.

[nafod]

How is Afghanistan going for our 24hour military? How in the hell are the Syrians getting their asses kicked?

Afghanistan, where we parachuted in and overthrew the Taliban in about a month, plinking the shit out of them the whole way? The reason Afghanistan sucks now is Pakistan and safe sanctuary. You'll have to depend on Canada. And speaking of which outside help, you think it is the Syrian's privately owned weapons, to include MANPADs, that are allowing them to fight Assad to a draw? Nothing to do with weapons coming in from Iran and Libya?

Read up on Siimo Hahya. A 5'5" Finnish woodsman killed over 500 soviet butchers during the winter war and tied up at least a soviet regiment trying to kill him. All armed with? A 5 shot bolt action rifle designed and fielded in 1891.

The Winter War was an army on army war. Siimo was a member of the Army, using an Army-issued weapon.

[TerryB]

Hey! I've got a great solution to the Copycat murder problem: Ban media coverage of mass murders.

There's probably a better, less comfortable less reflexive debate about the role the media and our hunger for it helps creates the ground for this to happen. That's the debate we won't have and should.

There's probably all sorts of debates we should/could have about the various intangibles that create the sickness we've seen in Aurora, Newtown, etc. Do they ever (a) happen, and (b) make a difference? If a culture is sick, it doesn't heal itself.

I don't accept the premise that the culture is sick...

I don't necessarily either, but you can throw a stone and hit a thread about how less virtuous we are today.