Russia and Ukraine

[Fat Cat]

of course not invading them.they "invaded"ukraine that is not in nato. vital in not encircling russia with nato countries.

Perhaps you should consult a map. Russia is in no danger of being encircled by NATO.

Ukrainians should decide who is in power. Not me, not Putin.

a bit of utopia. you know that this will never be possible.

Why does Russia get autonomy but not Ukraine doesn't?

repost again
what is your opinion of her words?for a moment forget private conversation or whatever.
what if iran president said it when speaking about america?
what would you said about a person that would like to wipe out russians in ukraine?
should russian feel safe in ukraine?

I would never be frightened by some hysterical woman. Would you?

[Wild Bill]

now they demand resignation of the Minister of Internal Affairs who ordered to arrest nazi who was killed (or as they think murdered) during arest.

[Sangoma]

The same way many Americans took Sarah Palin seriously Zhirinovsky is popular among certain circles (see above). Journalists use his performance either for entertainment or, like the author of the piece in Independent, for cheap anti-Russian/Putin brownie points.

Not talking about his electorate, talking about his political influence. Palin, fer instance, like her or not, has tremendous political influence on both the right and the left-- even though she's never been elected to national office.

As far as I know from my relatives Zhirinovsky does not have significant political influence over there.

[Sangoma]

Yesterday a colleague, an Israeli, asked me what I think about Crimea conflict. My reply was that it similar to geopolitical situation of Israel. In 1948 Jews got back the Promised Land, which was theirs 2000 years ago. Crimea was Russian only 60 years back, now Russians over there want it to belong to Russia again. Poor chap was speechless for a few moments, but his objection eventually was no more than "No!..."

I mentioned it before that in my opinion the conflict is the traditional mix of Orwell and Huxley. The former because governments need wars, the latter because the events provide rich entertainment for the masses which distracts them from real problems. But for the sake of the game, let's refresh the memory a bit.

In 1983 USA invaded Grenada. The reason was the recent military coup and the restoration of the constitutional government. How is it different if Russia wanted to do the same with Ukraine?

In 1995-1999 Albanians residing in Kosovo, a region of Serbia, decided that they want an autonomy. It's a long story, but pretty much an age long internal conflict of the country. In 1999 the US led NATO forces bombed Serbian civilian cities for the cause. We are not going to mention that Serbia was the only remaining political ally of Russia, as well as the ongoing Monica Lewinsky (that's covered in the movie Wag the Dog), never mind that. Now Crimea wants independence from Ukraine, and the wast majority of its population are Russians. Is NATO going to bomb Kiev to force Ukraine grant that region independence?

In September 1973 military coup in Chile ended up with the legitimate president Allende killed, followed by mass murders by the Junta. USA did not have any problem with that. Just like now it does not have any problem with the coup in Ukraine.

The list can be extended for quite a few pages. Noam Chomsky already did it in his Hegemony or Survival. The point is, the conflict is not about human rights, democracy or good vs evil. It is about the usual geopolitical struggle between the US and Russia.

[Sangoma]

Finally, a very interesting information:

Pierre Omidyar co-funded Ukraine revolution groups with US government, documents show

Pando has confirmed that the American government – in the form of the US Agency for International Development (USAID) – played a major role in funding opposition groups prior to the revolution. Moreover, a large percentage of the rest of the funding to those same groups came from a US billionaire who has previously worked closely with US government agencies to further his own business interests. This was by no means a US-backed “coup,” but clear evidence shows that US investment was a force multiplier for many of the groups involved in overthrowing Yanukovych.

[Fat Cat]

Finally, a very interesting information:

Pierre Omidyar co-funded Ukraine revolution groups with US government, documents show

Pando has confirmed that the American government – in the form of the US Agency for International Development (USAID) – played a major role in funding opposition groups prior to the revolution. Moreover, a large percentage of the rest of the funding to those same groups came from a US billionaire who has previously worked closely with US government agencies to further his own business interests. This was by no means a US-backed “coup,” but clear evidence shows that US investment was a force multiplier for many of the groups involved in overthrowing Yanukovych.

Honolulu, Hawaii exports revolution.

[Wild Bill]

Finally, a very interesting information:

Pierre Omidyar co-funded Ukraine revolution groups with US government, documents show

Pando has confirmed that the American government – in the form of the US Agency for International Development (USAID) – played a major role in funding opposition groups prior to the revolution. Moreover, a large percentage of the rest of the funding to those same groups came from a US billionaire who has previously worked closely with US government agencies to further his own business interests. This was by no means a US-backed “coup,” but clear evidence shows that US investment was a force multiplier for many of the groups involved in overthrowing Yanukovych.

there was rumors about 5 billions of $
and some pics about Obama paid such a sum for returning Crimea to Russia.

[TerryB]

ok we've got 2 communists in this thread and I have to do the work myself??

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[/img]

[TerryB]

fuck it

[Fat Cat]

You Russians are not distinguishing yourselves with your critical thinking skills.

Smet, if America killed every puppy in the world, what does that have to do with anything? 1973 Chile? LOL.

Wild Bill, there's a rumor about your sister. Is it true?

[Wild Bill]

Wild Bill, there's a rumor about your sister. Is it true?

I honestly said it is rumors :))

there in English, but i don't know who this guy.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8s_Bjapvu8[/youtube]

[Wild Bill]

here he quotes US ambasador.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUh15i9IRWw[/youtube]

[DrDonkeyLove]

Yesterday a colleague, an Israeli, asked me what I think about Crimea conflict. My reply was that it similar to geopolitical situation of Israel. In 1948 Jews got back the Promised Land, which was theirs 2000 years ago. Crimea was Russian only 60 years back, now Russians over there want it to belong to Russia again. Poor chap was speechless for a few moments, but his objection eventually was no more than "No!..."

I mentioned it before that in my opinion the conflict is the traditional mix of Orwell and Huxley. The former because governments need wars, the latter because the events provide rich entertainment for the masses which distracts them from real problems. But for the sake of the game, let's refresh the memory a bit.

In 1983 USA invaded Grenada. The reason was the recent military coup and the restoration of the constitutional government. How is it different if Russia wanted to do the same with Ukraine?

In 1995-1999 Albanians residing in Kosovo, a region of Serbia, decided that they want an autonomy. It's a long story, but pretty much an age long internal conflict of the country. In 1999 the US led NATO forces bombed Serbian civilian cities for the cause. We are not going to mention that Serbia was the only remaining political ally of Russia, as well as the ongoing Monica Lewinsky (that's covered in the movie Wag the Dog), never mind that. Now Crimea wants independence from Ukraine, and the wast majority of its population are Russians. Is NATO going to bomb Kiev to force Ukraine grant that region independence?

In September 1973 military coup in Chile ended up with the legitimate president Allende killed, followed by mass murders by the Junta. USA did not have any problem with that. Just like now it does not have any problem with the coup in Ukraine.

The list can be extended for quite a few pages. Noam Chomsky already did it in his Hegemony or Survival. The point is, the conflict is not about human rights, democracy or good vs evil. It is about the usual geopolitical struggle between the US and Russia.

Anything prior to 1992 has to be seen through the filter of the Cold War. USA = Good (even when doing bad). Soviets = Bad all the time.

Regarding Kosovo, it was sold in the USA as the defense of poor helpless Muslims who were victims of Serbian genocide.

Regarding Crimea, meh. Many of us are much more concerned with the evil regime/s destroying the USA than we are with Putin's annexing of people who apparently want to be annexed.

[Sangoma]

You Russians are not distinguishing yourselves with your critical thinking skills.

Smet, if America killed every puppy in the world, what does that have to do with anything? 1973 Chile? LOL.

It has to do with the fact that when American kills puppies it is for the better good of all humanity. When Russia does it - it's evil. While this is all about political struggle between the countries. Chile is one of examples when the US helped to overthrow legitimate government of the country.

Just in case you didn't get it: I take no side. Politicians are the worst kind of prostitutes, US, Russian, Ukrainian or Monrovian. Second worst - the media. The coup in Ukraine and the consequent Crimea conflict is another political game in which there are about ten winners, and everybody else loses.

I find in interesting how you dismiss information that does not agree with your beliefs. I am referring to US financing the coup.

[Fat Cat]

It has to do with the fact that when American kills puppies it is for the better good of all humanity. When Russia does it - it's evil. While this is all about political struggle between the countries. Chile is one of examples when the US helped to overthrow legitimate government of the country.

Smet, I like you, but you're not very bright. Past American misdeeds do not equal a Russian right to destabilize, invade and conquer other countries.

Just in case you didn't get it: I take no side. Politicians are the worst kind of prostitutes, US, Russian, Ukrainian or Monrovian. Second worst - the media. The coup in Ukraine and the consequent Crimea conflict is another political game in which there are about ten winners, and everybody else loses.

You are defending Russian aggression. Don't be a pussy about it.

I find in interesting how you dismiss information that does not agree with your beliefs. I am referring to US financing the coup.

You didn't read your own source and I know more about Omidyar, who lives in my home town, than you. Your source clearly stated, "This was by no means a US-backed “coup”.

[Wild Bill]

Best Soviet Ukrainian cartoon ever.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLAB3d5cFJM[/youtube]

[Wild Bill]

with English subtitles.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmeSsqwaOXs[/youtube]

[Sangoma]

It has to do with the fact that when American kills puppies it is for the better good of all humanity. When Russia does it - it's evil. While this is all about political struggle between the countries. Chile is one of examples when the US helped to overthrow legitimate government of the country.

Smet, I like you, but you're not very bright. Past American misdeeds do not equal a Russian right to destabilize, invade and conquer other countries.

Just in case you didn't get it: I take no side. Politicians are the worst kind of prostitutes, US, Russian, Ukrainian or Monrovian. Second worst - the media. The coup in Ukraine and the consequent Crimea conflict is another political game in which there are about ten winners, and everybody else loses.

You are defending Russian aggression. Don't be a pussy about it.

I find in interesting how you dismiss information that does not agree with your beliefs. I am referring to US financing the coup.

You didn't read your own source and I know more about Omidyar, who lives in my home town, than you. Your source clearly stated, "This was by no means a US-backed “coup”.

I may not be bright, but I generally manage to finish sentences once I I start reading them. Try it: the second part of the sentence that you quoted says: but clear evidence shows that US investment was a force multiplier for many of the groups involved in overthrowing Yanukovych. Word games: it wasn't backing, but investment.

My advice: re-read 1984 and Brave New World, it really will help you understand the events.

Edit:

Smet, I like you, but you're not very bright. Past American misdeeds do not equal a Russian right to destabilize, invade and conquer other countries.

Makena, I seriously wonder if you're really that naive or just being contrarian. The "misdeeds" of both sides are the links of continuous chain of events of the struggle between USA and Russia for for political, military and, ultimately, monetary power. Saying they are not related is the same as saying the moves in chess game are not related.

[Fat Cat]

Just in case you didn't get it: I take no side. Politicians are the worst kind of prostitutes, US, Russian, Ukrainian or Monrovian. Second worst - the media. The coup in Ukraine and the consequent Crimea conflict is another political game in which there are about ten winners, and everybody else loses.

You are taking a side against Ukrainian sovereignty and for a brutal Russian dictator. Putin isn't evil because the media or American politicians say so, he's evil because he oppresses people and steals billions from poor Russian people. His personal wealth is estimated at $71 billion.

I may not be bright, but I generally manage to finish sentences once I I start reading them. Try it: the second part of the sentence that you quoted says: but clear evidence shows that US investment was a force multiplier for many of the groups involved in overthrowing Yanukovych. Word games: it wasn't backing, but investment.

I can only reiterate that you are a credulous buffoon. The Omidyar Network provided the money in 2011 to support a mainstream pro-democracy organization called "Center UA". Here is the press release: http://www.omidyar.com/portfolio/new-citizen-centre-ua

That work was done in conjunction with USAID for nefarious programs like democratic reform, combating human trafficking, and AIDS prevention. See here: http://www.usaid.gov/where-we-work/euro ... ia/ukraine and http://www.usaid.gov/where-we-work/euro ... e/our-work

All of which is totally transparent, longstanding, and did not go to organizations like Pravi Sektor. This program was started under the Yanukovych presidency. If America is funding or "magnifying" revolutionaries in Ukraine, demonstrate it. So far it's just the typical Russian bullshit of blaming other countries for its own moral failures.

My advice: re-read 1984 and Brave New World, it really will help you understand the events.

My advice is you go fuck your mother.

I seriously wonder if you're really that naive or just being contrarian. The "misdeeds" of both sides are the links of continuous chain of events of the struggle between USA and Russia for for political, military and, ultimately, monetary power. Saying they are not related is the same as saying the moves in chess game are not related.

I am making a moral argument that the Russian leadership is acting in the wrong, both towards the people of Ukraine and her own citizens. The fact that it is not the first instance of wrong in the history of mankind means nothing to me.

[Sangoma]

I am making a moral argument that the Russian leadership is acting in the wrong, both towards the people of Ukraine and her own citizens. The fact that it is not the first instance of wrong in the history of mankind means nothing to me.

Your argument is not moral, but moralistic. Once again I made a mistake thinking it is possible to have an intelligent argument with you.

[seeahill]

Smet,
You were doing just fine. Don't back out now. Some of us want to see both sides.

[Fat Cat]

Or keep backpedaling you Cossack whore.

[Wild Bill]

When nazis were against Yanukvich they were peacefull protestants, but not now, when they are against pro-EU government... :)))

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-right-sector-condemned-997/

The lawless actions of Ukraine's nationalists have finally caught attention of the intl community, with EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton denouncing Right Sector for its ‘pressure’ and ‘undemocratic’ demand of the interior minister’s resignation.

A day after neo-Nazi activists who helped bring the acting government in Kiev to power turned against it, Ashton has issued a statement condemning the “pressure by activists of the Right Sector who have surrounded the building of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.”

This “intimidation” the EU foreign policy chief believes, stands against all “democratic principles and rule of law,” as Ashton called on the ultra-right group “to refrain from the use or threat of violence.”

Ashton stressed the need to “hand over any unauthorised arms to the authorities immediately.”

[Turdacious]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNa1RYgV17o[/youtube]

[nafod]

Say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, dude. At least it's an ethos.