IGX

Unpossible. Sports builds character.

Fat Cat wrote:Unpossible. Sports builds character.

You have to agree some real characters have emerged here

I'd support giving the current football players and signed recruits waivers to any university program, but scrap it for a few years, at least.

It can't be a "what's done is done" scenario because it doesn't address the issue of liability strongly enough for the given crimes: all staff need to know that when it comes to the rape of children, you will suffer if you don't speak up. Plausible deniability should not be a reasonable excuse.

Testiclaw wrote:I'd support giving the current football players and signed recruits waivers to any university program, but scrap it for a few years, at least.

It can't be a "what's done is done" scenario because it doesn't address the issue of liability strongly enough for the given crimes: all staff need to know that when it comes to the rape of children, you will suffer if you don't speak up. Plausible deniability should not be a reasonable excuse.

You think the staff that is left over doesn't know this?

You think the staff that is left over doesn't know this?

Any reasonable human being would know this without needing the entire lid to be blown off of the roof and have all of the facts come to light.

The fact that the systemic failure occurred at all, let alone for as long as it did and to the degree which it did tells me that it's reasonable to assume someone, somewhere, out in the collegiate athletic world would still not come forward if they were aware of child abuse going on in their program.

I'd try to purge that mindset from the entire population by destroying Penn as an example.

The football program should be rent asunder, and left in rubble for a few years; long enough for the current crop of freshmen to graduate, so call it 6 years - this is PA we're talking about, after all. Let the current crop of students remain keenly aware of the damage that was done by their faculty, their coaches, and their administration. Hopefully, this will encourage debate, and a change in culture to one which questions authority for authority's sake.

While this will be painful, it will do wonders for overall esteem, and this crop of students can hold their heads high when they say they graduated from PSU, instead of wearing a mantle of shame.

BobW wrote:The football program should be rent asunder, and left in rubble for a few years; long enough for the current crop of freshmen to graduate, so call it 6 years - this is PA we're talking about, after all. Let the current crop of students remain keenly aware of the damage that was done by their faculty, their coaches, and their administration. Hopefully, this will encourage debate, and a change in culture to one which questions authority for authority's sake.

While this will be painful, it will do wonders for overall esteem, and this crop of students can hold their heads high when they say they graduated from PSU, instead of wearing a mantle of shame.

5-10 Years is about right I'd say.

I am a long-time Paterno fan and argued for him throughout most of this.

The program should go down in flames. Currently players are free to transfer with no eligibility, coaches not involved are free to go elsewhere.

This was so systemic that arguing that the folks involved are no longer there doesn't hold up. In reading this, you have to come to the conclusion that this mindset exists in other institutions - that has to be purged forever.

That being said, the NCAA isn't going to do crap. If one of the kids that was raped was a player or potential recruit then they would step in and slap the program for letting him get free room and board in the monster's basement and be very concerned but this? I can think of no precedent that shows the organization cares about anything not related to eligibility and cash. None.

Personally, I think Penn State should be forced to permanently scrap its football program and in its place fund a treatment center for abused children, a la Johns Hopkins Hospital.

Fat Cat wrote:Personally, I think Penn State should be forced to permanently scrap its football program and in its place fund a treatment center for abused children, a la Johns Hopkins Hospital.

That would be amazing.

And they should salt Paterno's grave.

Testiclaw wrote:

Fat Cat wrote:Personally, I think Penn State should be forced to permanently scrap its football program and in its place fund a treatment center for abused children, a la Johns Hopkins Hospital.

That would be amazing.

If Penn did it sua sponte and with contrition, it would garner a staggering amount of goodwill.

Fat Cat wrote:And they should salt Paterno's grave.

isn't it salt the bones and then burn em?

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

Testiclaw wrote:

Fat Cat wrote:Personally, I think Penn State should be forced to permanently scrap its football program and in its place fund a treatment center for abused children, a la Johns Hopkins Hospital.

That would be amazing.

If Penn did it sua sponte and with contrition, it would garner a staggering amount of goodwill.

It would also mortify just the right people.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

Testiclaw wrote:

Fat Cat wrote:Personally, I think Penn State should be forced to permanently scrap its football program and in its place fund a treatment center for abused children, a la Johns Hopkins Hospital.

That would be amazing.

If Penn did it sua sponte and with contrition, it would garner a staggering amount of goodwill.

Could you imagine how different this would have been if Paterno and the President came out when they first learned about it, eviscerated Sandusky and told the college/sports world that they weren't going to let a piece of shit monster like that touch another child under the banner of Penn St. or their athletic programs?

It would have caused a gigantic fucking uproar at the time, but it would have cemented his "legacy" forever.

The sad part is that people in Happy Valley are STILL going to defend Joe Paterno... you know it as well as I do...

Death Penalty for the program... SMU was nothing compared to this.

Testiclaw wrote:

Fat Cat wrote:Personally, I think Penn State should be forced to permanently scrap its football program and in its place fund a treatment center for abused children, a la Johns Hopkins Hospital.

That would be amazing.

Indeed.

Jay wrote:The sad part is that people in Happy Valley are STILL going to defend Joe Paterno... you know it as well as I do...

Death Penalty for the program... SMU was nothing compared to this.

Should but won't. Penn State is not going to pull the plug on a cash cow and the NCAA is crooked enough not to care though them coming down on the program would make me think a lot better of them.

Recruiting against Penn State is that much easier, isn't it?

Do they play any schools that have "fun" student sections like the University of Oregon or Duke in basketball?

Do they play any schools that have "fun" student sections like the University of Oregon or Duke in basketball?

Wisconsin's student section is incredibly vulgar and has no scruples about heckling.

I think the NCAA should let Penn St field two football teams.

Jay wrote:The sad part is that people in Happy Valley are STILL going to defend Joe Paterno... you know it as well as I do...

Death Penalty for the program... SMU was nothing compared to this.

Certainly as of yesterday I'd get in arguments with folks about this. Being Navy, I'd argue that no matter what he did in the 2001 incident, he was responsible for the command climate and that was enough. I definitely undershot the mark.

There is other dirt. Freeh didn't even have subpoena power, others will. More will come out. Curley and Schultz will bilge each other, Spanier, and Paterno.

Taking the redeye home. Eyewitness reports from the local bar tomorrow.

On Sportscenter earlier today, the talking head made the point that the NCAA may not have the power to do anything to the program.

The NCAA can't start making up rules as they go along. They're almost certain to write in rules to allow them to chop a program if a scandal like this happens again, but unless it involves paying athletes, academic fraud by athletes or some other improper benefits to the athletes within the program... their hands may be tied.

They may have something that they could work in as a trumped up charge, but the way it looks now, the program likely skates, even though a bunch of people involved with it likely won't.

baffled wrote:On Sportscenter earlier today, the talking head made the point that the NCAA may not have the power to do anything to the program.

The NCAA can't start making up rules as they go along. They're almost certain to write in rules to allow them to chop a program if a scandal like this happens again, but unless it involves paying athletes, academic fraud by athletes or some other improper benefits to the athletes within the program... their hands may be tied.

They may have something that they could work in as a trumped up charge, but the way it looks now, the program likely skates, even though a bunch of people involved with it likely won't.

baffled wrote:On Sportscenter earlier today, the talking head made the point that the NCAA may not have the power to do anything to the program.

The NCAA can't start making up rules as they go along. They're almost certain to write in rules to allow them to chop a program if a scandal like this happens again, but unless it involves paying athletes, academic fraud by athletes or some other improper benefits to the athletes within the program... their hands may be tied.

They may have something that they could work in as a trumped up charge, but the way it looks now, the program likely skates, even though a bunch of people involved with it likely won't.

Finally, someone who gets it. Covering up criminal behavior of a coach, that led to no competitive advantage on the field, isn't against NCAA rules. Fortunately those involved are headed for criminal and civil courts, instead of any NCAA kangaroo court.

It's not the NCAA's job to shut them down.

The NCAA's job is, or should be, to ensure a fair playing field and police programs in areas that may have some areas for disagreement.

Previous coaches have gone down from having lost control over their players. Usually, this is fairly clear - if you have guns or rapes or recreational drugs in your football dorms, you shouldn't have a university sit back and say that they need to wait to see if they get sanctioned. This is far, far worse than anything that I can remember happening in other programs.

If current leadership at PSU has an integrity, they will pull the plug on the entire program. This is a serious litmus test for the current administration.

Assuming that the people who knew about Sandusky and participated in the coverup are gone, or will be gone following further trials and lawsuits, what good does it do to eliminate the program? Players have to find a new place to play. Coaches that weren't involved in any wrongdoing have to try and wash the PSU stink and get jobs at other programs before the season starts. Because the last guys committed terrible acts?

The whole "sins of the father" thing I guess.

PS
Nobody is arguing that those involved with Sandusky deserve to fry, or burn in hell if they're already dead.