Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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Again.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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Shocking?

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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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Not really.

This one though, the cop called out "Taser" and then shot the guy. Cop should be terminated and tried, but I'm still not sure how rioting is going to fix any of this.

Better training, removal or weakening (how? dunno, maybe you guys do) of qualified immunity etc.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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Incompetent people with authorization to use deadly force seems like a terrible idea.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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baffled wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:27 pmAgain.
It is so, so strange to me this title and content.

My response would be, "MSP cop panics and kills another black man, after the last cop got off." How frequent do the bad shootings without consequences for the officer have to be to piss you off?
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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What makes you think I'm not pissed?
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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baffled wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:16 pm What makes you think I'm not pissed?
The selective way you decided to share this news event.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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Grandpa's Spells wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:33 pm
baffled wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:16 pm What makes you think I'm not pissed?
The selective way you decided to share this news event.
Go on.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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baffled wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:46 pm
Grandpa's Spells wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:33 pm
baffled wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:16 pm What makes you think I'm not pissed?
The selective way you decided to share this news event.
Go on.
Baffled reviews Bravehart:

Scottish thugs riot (again).
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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Grandpa's Spells wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:37 pm
baffled wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:46 pm
Grandpa's Spells wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:33 pm
baffled wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:16 pm What makes you think I'm not pissed?
The selective way you decided to share this news event.
Go on.
Baffled reviews Bravehart:

Scottish thugs riot (again).
Interesting.

I have my views on how I believe black culture is not exactly "good", but also think that it was done *to* the black community, largely with good intentions over ~60 or so years. And I also spent 7 years working with predominantly black students in a very rough district and enjoyed the work and worked hard to see the best in the kids, even when it was a struggle to do so.

Just presenting that as background.

We had a chance for police reform in this country starting in June, and people rioted, looted and destroyed, bringing a lot of people who were pro-cop, but open to reform, into the firmly pro-cop "back the blue", never reform crowd. What does this reaction serve? How does destroying a local community help either disadvantaged communities, or address the issue of poor training, poor screening, generally poor policy regarding police?

And while I think most people are overreacting to the January 6 riot at the Capitol, I thought that was idiotic and counterproductive, too.

Nancy Pelosi accused Tim Scott, the only black republican US Senator, of “trying to get away with . . . the murder of George Floyd”. Yet I see no meaningful legislative push in either chamber, by either party, to reform policing within the scope and authority of the federal government.

Neither side is going to put forth a real effort to change things while communities are being wrecked again.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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As Scott Adams (the Dilbert guy) observed: What % of the people supported Black Lives Matter the day after Floyd's death? Probably 90+%
Now, after this past summer's shenanigans? Significantly fewer.
The BLM movement has shit on its brand. And continues to do so.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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baffled wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:40 pmWhat does this reaction serve? How does destroying a local community help either disadvantaged communities, or address the issue of poor training, poor screening, generally poor policy regarding police?
I feel like the missing of the point here is willful. I don't think the Boston Tea Party was a productive way to persuade England to come around on the arguments about taxation without representation. People riot when they feel the system is hopeless, and some opportunistic assholes jump in there as well. It is not a productive reaction. It's not meant to be productive. It's anger.

At least part of the question has to be, "Is the anger justified? Why is the anger manifesting as a riot?" Note that we jump immediately to this question when white people do it by default.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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Grandpa's Spells wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:42 pm
baffled wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:40 pmWhat does this reaction serve? How does destroying a local community help either disadvantaged communities, or address the issue of poor training, poor screening, generally poor policy regarding police?
I feel like the missing of the point here is willful. I don't think the Boston Tea Party was a productive way to persuade England to come around on the arguments about taxation without representation. People riot when they feel the system is hopeless, and some opportunistic assholes jump in there as well. It is not a productive reaction. It's not meant to be productive. It's anger.

At least part of the question has to be, "Is the anger justified? Why is the anger manifesting as a riot?" Note that we jump immediately to this question when white people do it by default.
Do you ever ask questions of other people when your views don't align, or do you just assume?

Because if you did, or didn't just select the question I asked about what the riots served, you'd see that I noted that police reform was on the table, and the violence and destruction destroyed that opportunity.

If you asked further questions, you'd know that I think the majority of the laws in this country shouldn't exist as they target the poor and disadvantaged with a special eye on communities mainly made of of people of color. Not to mention issues surrounding consenting adults entering into arrangements for services, products etc. Drugs, sex, selling a boat trailer; doesn't matter.

Or that I think that the way police are doing their job in this country is bullshit, both for the people they're allegedly sworn to protect, but also for cops themselves. The job isn't in the top 10 of the most dangerous, but they've become so tightly wound we see shit like this, or Lt. Nazario.

You could also have realized that while nearly everyone, myself included, has biases about certain groups of people, that doesn't mean that they don't want to see an improvement in the conditions affecting their lives.

You'd also know that I think a lot of the "white people" rioting, of which I can think of one specific example outside of some Black Bloc/Antifa weirdos, is idiotic and counterproductive, too. I didn't support, in any way, what happened at the Capitol in January, but that's another issues we can start a thread on.

But you didn't ask.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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And to be completely fair to Baff, I'm pretty sure I'M the one who was the flippant asshole here. Why the Asian hate, bro?

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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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Ronald RayGun wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:31 pm And to be completely fair to Baff, I'm pretty sure I'M the one who was the flippant asshole here. Why the Asian hate, bro?
I don't think so.

For all the retards on the right, mainly the Proud Boys, they don't burn cities they way we saw with the BLM "mostly peaceful protests." Even the insanely stupid events on January 6 were over in a day, but we had a Summer Of Love in 2020 like no other in recent memory.

I mean, it's not like there's a history of this going back to Rodney King and earlier.

There are a lot of people in this country, across racial and political lines, that are upset and getting angry at what passes for a system. But only one continues to destroy.

If you want to tear something down, get rid of the hucksters like Al Sharpton, and get more Maj Toure types. Fewer Shaun Kings, and more Jason Whitlock, but without the drugging and date rape. Less Ibraham Kendi and more Denzel Washington.

None of those guys are very politically alike, but they call for self-defense (Toure), family, and community involvement (Washington, via the Boys and Girls Club of America). Whitlock just suffers no fools and isn't afraid to call out anyone for anything.

Even if you don't agree, they're all about empowerment sans government, responsibility etc. Rather than complaining and furthering the victim identity, things need to shift towards saying "screw this, we'll take care of it." I saw someone on Twitter note that the Black Panthers should take to policing black neighborhoods again, because modern policing isn't getting it done. I don't know enough to have an opinion on that idea, but I like the mentality.

Hell, the Hoteps are out there all the time trying to organize black communities into being more self sufficient and less reliant on corporate America or the government.

That's true of whites in this country, too.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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Ronald RayGun wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:31 pm And to be completely fair to Baff, I'm pretty sure I'M the one who was the flippant asshole here. Why the Asian hate, bro?
SPELLS hates Asians. Simple as. He only defends intractable moon crickets because he doesn't really think they can care for themselves.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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baffled wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:30 pmBecause if you did, or didn't just select the question I asked about what the riots served, you'd see that I noted that police reform was on the table, and the violence and destruction destroyed that opportunity.
I saw it, it's just dumb concern trolling. I think if your mindset is: "I thought the state killing minorities with impunity is wrong, but if tiny numbers of them riot in response, we should probably let the state keep killing that minority group," you don't really see those deaths as full human beings. You aren't actually persuadable. The people who assume all Trump voters are Jan. 6 rioters are similarly not persuadable in any real numbers.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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Grandpa's Spells wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:39 am
baffled wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:30 pmBecause if you did, or didn't just select the question I asked about what the riots served, you'd see that I noted that police reform was on the table, and the violence and destruction destroyed that opportunity.
I saw it, it's just dumb concern trolling. I think if your mindset is: "I thought the state killing minorities with impunity is wrong, but if tiny numbers of them riot in response, we should probably let the state keep killing that minority group," you don't really see those deaths as full human beings. You aren't actually persuadable. The people who assume all Trump voters are Jan. 6 rioters are similarly not persuadable in any real numbers.
Which one of us isn't actually persuadable?

Are you familiar at all with my posts on politics?

Where have I made the point that I think it's okay for the state to keep killing the minority group and how would you read that as my mindset here? I don't really care what race they are, but I think that the state has a legitimate function in preserving life and private property, but that's not isn't the point of the thread.

I don't care what race the rioters are, I think it's stupid, counterproductive, and that there are better options available nearly always. It happens to be the same group the majority of the time, but how has the existence of a black American been helped through this kind of action?

Which white American who is just going along day to day is going to go "Yeah, I think I want to adjust my voting patterns and charity donations, and maybe even donate my time to help this group?"

They may not turn into hardcore Trump supporters or start posting to stormfront, but an "ally" is going to be hard to attract.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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I will add that of the something like 30-40 million police encounters each year, less than 100 result in the killing of an unarmed person, and less than 20 are black, on average.

The amount of brutality and other rights violations is at least as egregious when you consider qualified immunity and the strength of police unions enable crooked cops to continue in their jobs with little to no consequences. Get rid of at least one of those two, and most of this goes away.

Get the majority of drug crimes off the books, return policing to a community outreach model with police focusing on violent and property crime and this isn't an issue anymore.

But everyone on both sides of the political spectrum continue voting for the very politicians that vote for these laws, refuse to take up qualified immunity or other government unions, and then decide to burn something. Why is anyone surprised?
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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Jumbled thoughts ahead.

People seem to like to jump to "why do black people riot and other people don't?" Which is a lot along the lines of "why do black people cause trouble in a different way than other people?"

Which is all along the lines of "what's wrong with black people. White people don't do this shit."

I mean, call it what it is.

If what you see as "black culture" is the inner city/ghetto experience then that's messed up. Go make some black friends. Go to some black weddings. Attend black service. Have lunch with some black people. Get yourself to the point where there are some black people in your life that actively seek out your company.

Black people don't like crime. They don't support the riots. They don't like that ghetto mentality. But there is a common shared experience of being black in this country and pretending that there isn't racism and pretending black people have every advantage that white people do is a lie.

But that does't answer the question, what the fuck is up with rioting?

I'm not an expert in the topic. But it seems like before, rioting was something that "white americans" did to people of color, immigrants, etc. It was white people burning down black neighborhoods. White people lynching the Chinese. Attacking the Irish. That sort of thing.

In the 60s that changed and suddenly it was something that inner city "black" people were doing.

Crazy talk ahead.

This wasn't accidental. The Civil Rights movement was a real honest to god threat and CIA, FBI, etc. etc. took it seriously. The linking of the Chicano movement with the Civil rights groups was a death sentence. There are people and groups in this country that will not tolerate poor/middle class people waking up and realizing that we should have it better and we share a common economic interest.

I think that the riots in the 60s were calculated, encouraged directly and indirectly in order to drive a wedge between groups of color.

But cnce you cross a line, once you see something can be done, it becomes a common response to a stimulus. It is now almost an expected reaction. It's like school shootings. There was never one until there was. Now there are. The same with riots. Now they happen in response to to specific events. And I think that as time has gone on it has become easier to predict and control how riots happen, where they happen, and the how the narrative around them can be shaped.

And I think this is exactly what some people want because it is a perfect way to drive a wedge into any progress. Once people start working together to ask questions about policing, they start to move into bigger questions about economic justice, social justice, etc. And that cannot happen.

So instead of asking the hard questions, you once again get a perfect chance to craft a racially driven conversation that avoids the real things going on in this country, things that AEN wrote about far more eloquently than I can.

Admittedly a ramble.

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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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I swear I had a post about the bullshit that went over in the 60s through the 90s. From welfare (good intention, not great when you get more for dad not being there), the impact of fatherlessness, crack, the effort to weaken and get rid of the black panthers etc.

Good points newguy.

I'd also add that the 1994 (?) crime bill everyone points to as so racist received a strong push from black leadership at the local and federal level, including church leaders and community activists, as well as tough on crime democrats and republicans. White politicians, democrat and republican had their now accepted as racist comments, while black leaders were sick of the violent crime in their communities.

Coupled with the militarization of police and inadequate training, not to mention the type of dipshit who often wants to be a cop in the first place, and you get a shit show.
Last edited by baffled on Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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You guys don’t know anything. Let’s hear from an expert.
Dolezal is still living, by all accounts, as a Black woman in spite of the “hate” that Dolezal describes being subjected to.

“I would say since then [I’ve had] just shaming and ridicule,” Dolezal says in the documentary. “I’ve been called an insult to white women and an insult to Black women. White women are angry because I did what they never would do and went further, like I put 110. I didn’t just be that white ally and do a little bit, I canceled my white privilege. I canceled my hair. For Black women, I feel like it’s a reaction to pain. It’s like a trigger to post-traumatic stress.”

“When it comes to white men, that’s the group that I am the most scared of on a level of threat because that’s mostly the white supremacy folks,” she adds.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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Gwan, Queen!

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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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This is what we need more of: https://apnews.com/article/race-and-eth ... b0e1557a4d

A group of black men, many armed, keeping a buffer between the protesters and police, and trying to keep the peace when the rioters get going. Community .

The police had been firing rubber bullets, I think, and I heard of flashbangs going off on the first night.
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Re: Biden's America: rioting in Minnesota

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Baff,

It is now de rigour to renounce that black fatherlessness is a real thing.

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