No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

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Gene
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Gene »

Wild Bill wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:59 pm I am watching you!
I'm sorry you have to spend time doing that, Bill.

You moved to Kaliningrad didn't you? They're were under an embargo because of the EU. I hope that the Lithuanians see reason and are not too stringent about poking into train boxcars.

Looks like the Germans saw reason.... Guess they remember what happened to the Poles after transit disputes across the Danzig Corridor went south. They don't want to go through that again.

Allegedly the Lithuanians aren't happy. They agreed to join the EU, let them enjoy it.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/eu ... f70de541b2
Last edited by Gene on Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Gene »

If anyone is bothered by my sentiments to Bill.


During the Vietnam War US soldiers put on Tunnel Rat duty would sweep underground hospitals. These served the National Liberation Front or NVA. Now and then they would find care packages from either the US based Quaker Friends Committee or from the University of California at Berkeley.

"In February 1967, AQAG chartered a sailing vessel loaded with medical supplies, particularly penicillin, and sailed it into Haiphong harbour in North Vietnam. While there, they were able to create contacts between the North Vietnamese and other peace organisations, such as the Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom. On their return to the US, all the crew had their passports confiscated."

https://www.quakersintheworld.org/quake ... ietnam-War

The mention of donations from U Cal Berkeley came from Joseph T Ward's "Dear Mom A Sniper's Vietnam". Messed up his head thinking about protests and "donations" from back home while he was in the field.

There is also Jane Fonda's photo op with PAVN gunners. Wonder if any of our people in POW status got thumped for not talking with her?
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There may be CIA paramilitaries and Green Berets in Ukraine. How would I know?

There were regular Soldiers and Marines in Vietnam. Some cleared tunnels to find medical supplies that originated from Berkeley or the Quakers. I'd reckon that some of those "radicals" at Berkeley probably taught some of Joe Biden's staff.

I can be nice/cordial to Bill if Jane Fonda and the radicals got a pass for helping out the North Vietnamese and National Liberation Front while our people were being killed by both.
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by motherjuggs&speed »

The Telegraph has some interesting pieces on their podcast Ukraine: The Latest. Here's what I'm wondering though:

What is the reason for sending arms to Ukraine? No, really, what's the actual reason? Is it to impoverish the people of the donor nations even further? Is it because the officials in change of these decisions are in the pockets of the arms dealers? Or are they maybe hoping some Stingers will be sold to terrorist groups so they can ratchet up the GWOT? I'm aware that probably most of the reports of Ukrainian arms for sale are Russian propaganda but there's no way to track all those weapons in a war zone and no one thinks they really can. They don't seem that worried about the security of the weapons. What's actually going on? Are the politicians trying to keep the money laundry open?

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nafod
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by nafod »

motherjuggs&speed wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:19 am What is the reason for sending arms to Ukraine?
To help the fledgling democracy of Ukraine stave off the Russian hordes.
Don’t believe everything you think.

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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Ronald RayGun »

We still doin' this ancient White Trash on White Trash nonsense?
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motherjuggs&speed
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by motherjuggs&speed »

Why does anyone care about Ukraine? It isn't because of human rights abuses since no one cares about China's. It isn't about Russia doing bad things to people -- they're been doing that for a hundred years. It isn't about stability in Europe since they don't care that much about the problems of mass migration. So I wonder what it's really about.

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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

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motherjuggs&speed wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 6:59 amWhy does anyone care about Ukraine? It isn't because of human rights abuses since no one cares about China's.
If China were to invade Taiwan or South Korea I think we might indirectly help the defenders.
It isn't about Russia doing bad things to people -- they're been doing that for a hundred years.
We've been pushing back against Russian expansion since the end of WWII.
It isn't about stability in Europe since they don't care that much about the problems of mass migration. So I wonder what it's really about.
Democratic governments permitting immigration isn't something we get involved in.

The best argument against opposing Russia is they're so inept we don't need to.
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Luke »

I am confused that they are at war, but tourism is "opening back up". That Putin wants to beat them, but he's allowing exports to resume and the west to intervene.

What's the end game?


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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Gene »

Grandpa's Spells wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:35 pm The best argument against opposing Russia is they're so inept we don't need to.
Another argument, maybe as good, is that the west encourages Russians to be wary and worried. This makes them want a strong man like Putin. Russian voters see Putin as Russia's guardian. Guardian against the West's immorality and so on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVrIf6fF7JM

Putin does a lot of theatrical things... like standing in the rain. Russians eat that up. As one Soviet ex-pat explained to me, "When you lead a nation of men, you have to do manly things".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CG78tDkuE8


NATO doesn't help by doing things like B52 bombing training against Kaliningrad.... Two bombers just piss people off.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... fd1c5579d9

Here is a Russian fighter intercepting a B52 over the Black Sea. Really close up. Someone might want to remind these characters what happened to Wang Wei when he got too close to a P3 Orion. They collided, Wei was never found.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCHkY4mMOg4
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

Pretty amazing week for Ukrainians.
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Gene »

Grandpa's Spells wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:16 am Pretty amazing week for Ukrainians.
The Nazi invasion looked pretty good in the fall of 1941.

The winter got to them. The winter will get to the EU too.


Be nice if NATO would work on peace instead of punishment... but it's easy to punish when your own people in the US and UK aren't suffering.
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by nafod »

Grandpa's Spells wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:16 am Pretty amazing week for Ukrainians.
I’m sure the Russians will be able to sustain their invasion through the oncoming winter. Winter invasions in the steppes are easy, right Napoleon? Hitler?
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

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nafod wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:00 pm I’m sure the Russians will be able to sustain their invasion through the oncoming winter. Winter invasions in the steppes are easy, right Napoleon? Hitler?
Hitler and Napoleon were outsiders who dressed their people for Western Europe. The Russians live there.

Let's consult the experts....

Napoleon
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A few Wehrmacht (I wanted the one dressed in the feather boa, couldn't find them)
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Russian arctic weather clothing...
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I brought up winter because the stupid Germans shut down most of their nuke plants.
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Ronald RayGun »

Fuck these garbage people.
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

Russian winter victories came by being the defender. That said, I'm not sure there will be any Russians left in Ukraine by winter.
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

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Grandpa's Spells wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:21 pm Russian winter victories came by being the defender.
Only true superficially. The common themes for both the French and Nazis were long lines of support and lack of proper gear. Mud. Cold.

10,000 years ago, while I was in ROTC we took a break to review gear. One of the guys was former enlisted. We remarked on the height of the transport trucks.

"This is nothing. When I was in Germany they had really big trucks".

"Russia?", someone asked.

"Yeah, Russia".

We all laughed.

The Mud.
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One example of more modern German vehicle....
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Russians have a capacity for suffering. They showed this in the Winter War of 1940 and in Chechnya.

One of Putin's favorite Journalists covered Chechnya. Anna Stepanovna Politovskaya The Russians can bear a lot of suffering... it's why she ended up dead. She embarrassed people too many times.

Her books were fun reading, if you have a map nearby and some time to think it over. I have "A small Corner of Hell" and "The Dirty War".

Russians can bear a lot of pain.
Grandpa's Spells wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:21 pm That said, I'm not sure there will be any Russians left in Ukraine by winter.
Depends upon how you define "Ukraine". The pre 2014 borders? Where things are today?

If Putin dropped dead today the goals won't change. NATO cannot be up Russia's ass.
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Gene »

Back in the early 1960s the US deployed Jupiter Missiles in Turkey. I read they were stationed at Izmir.

Khrushchev complained about a "knife to our throat". He risked a nuclear war to get them off of his ass.

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Here's a possible place for NATO to put nuclear weapons.... 560 Km.... at missile speeds how many seconds will Russia get to decide Launch/No Launch? 15 minutes or less?

Lot closer than Turkey isn't it?
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Gene »

You Neo-Cons think that this is OK, huh? Might makes Right?

A future Socialist Canada accepts Russian military aid. How many seconds of reaction time will we have now?
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Socialist Cuba accepts Russian military aid. They can reach out and touch a good bit of the US oil refining capacity.

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Hasn't been worth the worth the Russian's while to do it yet.

Wasn't worth Khrushchev's while until we put those missiles into Turkey in 1961.



Why in the hell should the world take orders from Washington or Brussels. It's not our planet to control.
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Post by Gene »

This guy served in Vietnam in 1968. He volunteered to join the Ukrainian National Guard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQDE6ciuygs
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Gene wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:10 pm Might makes Right?
Russia invaded a sovereign nation without provocation, but with the same propaganda you're spouting here.

NATO never invited Ukraine to be a member. Nobody talked about putting nukes in Ukraine. You are spouting nonsense. What's with all the map-making, comrade?

If it's ever been more clear that Russia is nothing to be afraid of, apart form it's nukes, I don't know when that could be. The idea that we'd risk a nuke exchange with a complete backwater kleptocracy that cant even handle Ukraine, by putting nukes in Ukraine, is silly. The reasons for NATO to exist have nothing to do with Russia any more.
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Post by nafod »

Gene wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:33 pm The common themes for both the French and Nazis were long lines of support and lack of proper gear.
Not sure about the gear, but Russia's lines of support are vulnerable in Ukraine, and will be more so as the weather gets bad. Always easier and always more motivated to fight on your own turf, too.
Gene wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:10 pm It's not our planet to control.
Nor is it Russia's.
Grandpa's Spells wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:06 pm Russia invaded a sovereign nation without provocation...
And now they reap what they sow.
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Post by Grandpa's Spells »

Malcom Nance broadcast uncensored saying "What now, bitches?" on Russian State TV is fucking hilarious.
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Post by Gene »

nafod wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:52 am
Grandpa's Spells wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:06 pm Russia invaded a sovereign nation without provocation...
And now they reap what they sow.
We are sowing discord in Russia's backyard. They are going to return the favor, like they tried to do in the 1980s.

These are both from 2022.

Venezuela... war games.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation ... 60504.html

Nicaragua... more modest...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nicaragua- ... r-country/


You'll both start complaining about it once the Wall Street oligarchs get their mouthpieces to gripe about it.....
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Post by Gene »

motherjuggs&speed wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:19 am The Telegraph has some interesting pieces on their podcast Ukraine: The Latest. Here's what I'm wondering though:

What is the reason for sending arms to Ukraine? No, really, what's the actual reason?
Here's part of the picture.... and it's in Salon Magazine. Toria Nuland, the "fuck the EU" lady.

"Despite outrage from German Chancellor Angela Merkel, no one fired Nuland, but her potty mouth upstaged the more serious story: the U.S. plot to overthrow Ukraine's elected government — and America's responsibility for a civil war that has killed at least 13,000 people and left Ukraine the poorest country in Europe. "

https://www.salon.com/2021/01/19/who-is ... licy-team/

Here Nuland is handing out food to Ukrainians.... trying to unseat Yanukovich.
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But it's all "Putler's fault...."
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Post by Gene »

Grandpa's Spells wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:06 pm
Gene wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:10 pm Might makes Right?
Russia invaded a sovereign nation without provocation, but with the same propaganda you're spouting here.
As the Salon article above shows, there was provocation. The US participated in regime change on Russia's doorstep. We Americans and the EU overthrew a democratically elected President. His name was Viktor Fedorovich Yanukovych.

We meddled in Russia's near abroad. We corrupted a "fraternal" government, encouraged it to lash out at Russian speakers.

Russia is not innocent either.... I think that they coveted the Yuzivska gas fields that lie under "donbass". The 2014 Maidan allowed them to snatch that area up. Russia has to answer for it.

The narrative that Ukraine was an innocent victim is true - the US and Russia are fucking with them.

We are not giving Ukraine enough weapons to win, but we are arming them enough to bleed.

So, Gramps, who is the most evil of them all? The domineering neighbor or the nations that use Ukrainian men as cannon fodder to 'tame' Russia, to dismember it? Like we used Georgian men, and Chechen men in the 2000s.
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