WAAAAAAAAR SONNEN

[TerryB]

Would anyone bitch that JBJ isn't cutting to 185 to face Silva?

JBJ has already talked about moving UP to face JDS.

[Thatcher II]

Would anyone bitch that JBJ isn't cutting to 185 to face Silva?

Not Silva. He's publicly said "no Brasilian" could beat JBJ. Silva is a lot shorter and less rangey. JBJ would be a hugely difficult opponent and whilst I'd love to see it, I'm not holding my breath.

From Jones' perspective, he already has chicken legs and isn't that muscled. He's 6'4". 185 would have him quite gaunt. The idea that in 2012, with MMA so monied and popular, someone dominating a division is a pussy for not changing for a new challenge is schoolyard foolishness. Which is fine for the likes of Proto or Herv, but not an argument with any merit.

[Kazuya Mishima]

A lot of nazis here

Not really...just me.

[milosz]

Would anyone bitch that JBJ isn't cutting to 185 to face Silva?

JBJ has already talked about moving UP to face JDS.

Yes, Jones will be a heavyweight in a few years' time. He can easily carry a lot more muscle on his frame.

But that's irrelevant: if Silva should be criticized for not moving up to face a much larger opponent, why wouldn't you bitch about the larger opponent not moving down an equivalent amount? Should JDS move down to face JBJ? Silva to GSP, etc.?

If someone wants to move up or down, great. Good for them. But fans shouldn't expect or criticize fighters for their choices in that realm, particularly for someone in his mid-30s who's been at the same class forever.

[Herv100]

Would anyone bitch that JBJ isn't cutting to 185 to face Silva?

No, why? Is anyone bitching about Silva not cutting down to face GSP, and instead making him move up a class? No, because it would be very hard if not impossible for Silva or Jones to go down.

Anyway, I would be rooting for Silva against Jones, but he would get rag dolled and elbowed into Bolivian.

[TerryB]

The idea that in 2012, with MMA so monied and popular, someone dominating a division is a pussy for not changing for a new challenge is schoolyard foolishness.

I'M THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME!!!*



*as long as I don't have to fight anyone scary that might beat me up, be bigger than me, or have a reach advantage

Silva is GSP. Both are willing to fight smaller men that show courage and step up but neither man will risk his reputation by fighting someone bigger or who might beat the crap out of them. Yet they want to be considered the best in the world. Well fine, you're the best in the world at playing it safe. God forbid you risk something!

These men are not fighters. They do not deserve much respect.

And it doesn't matter how much money the sport has, how popular it is, etc. There is no rule preventing Silva from moving up. It is only his lack of heart. And there are still warriors in MMA who are willing to truly take on all comers. That makes the cowardice of GSP and Silva really stand out.

But that's irrelevant: if Silva should be criticized for not moving up to face a much larger opponent, why wouldn't you bitch about the larger opponent not moving down an equivalent amount? Should JDS move down to face JBJ? Silva to GSP, etc.?

The larger man never challenges the smaller man. (well, except now Rashad has done it). But historically, it is a big no-no. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

But fans shouldn't expect or criticize fighters for their choices in that realm, particularly for someone in his mid-30s who's been at the same class forever

ORLY? Why the fuck not? What IS the proper role of a fan?? You sure as shit CAN criticize Silva, or GSP, or anyone else who wants to be seen as the greatest of all time and reap those monetary rewards while avoiding serious challenges.

You made my point for me: Silva has stayed at MW "forever" because it's a weak division and has historically always been one of the weakest UFC divisions. He's never been particulary lean at 185, but he won't cut weight. He stays comfortable. The MW division has always lacked strong wrestlers and when one showed up, Silva lost for 23 minutes. He won't take on a bigger man with skill. He'll fight James Irvin (who?) and Forrest Griffin, who has NEVER had speed or power even in his natural weightclass!

Legacy above all. He and GSP should start a "how to get sponsors, make money, and not lose fights!" clinic.

[TerryB]

just saw this. The next contenders at MW are....Mark Munoz and Chris Weideman, and then maybe Mike Bisping.

And at the post-fight press conference, Dana White said that the two times Silva moved up, it was not because he wanted to, it was b/c Dana wanted him to. And why did he want him to? Because Silva was not engaging his opponents at MW and Dana wanted him to fight someone who might challenge him. Silva was/is content to sandbag at MW.

Also, at the press conference, Silva said he didn't want to fight Jones:

There isn't anyone on the horizon who would appear to have a good chance to beat Silva other than Jon Jones, which brings up the only downer of the night for Silva. During the post-fight news conference, he was asked if he wanted to fight Jones. Silva shook his head and beamed.

"Nope," he said.

Seriously, Anderson? This is your legacy? Munoz? Luter? Rich Franklin? James Irvin?

People throw shit at Fedor for fighting a lot of cans in PRIDE. The same should be said of Silva. I actually have much more respect for GSP's title defenses b/c WW has always been a more stacked division than WW. Same for Jones. LW was a shark tank and Jones cleaned it out immediately.

[TerryB]

'atta boy, Andy!

spread that grease around!



and grab the wrassler's shorts while you drill him!

[tonkadtx]

People forget that a Lutter; who did not make weight; gave him a bit of trouble on the ground before getting caught with the sneaky triangle. The triangle seems to be his go to safety valve when someone is giving him problems. He can get it when people think they are safe because of his body type and the length of his legs.

[Thatcher II]

Proto, when you were young, you were the annoying kid always banging on about who'd win between Spiderman and Batman or "which is better: sharks or army tanks!!!!"

Newsflash: you're still that annoying kid. You see, the adults weren't joking when they told you that eating vegetables was good for you. Ketchup and nuggets has done this to you. You probably have a case to sue someone.

[Turdacious]

Why would Silva leave the MW division unless he gets paid to?

[milosz]

The larger man never challenges the smaller man. (well, except now Rashad has done it). But historically, it is a big no-no. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

Your 'logic' is full retard.
It's a big no-no? Really? So that's why Silva should be criticized, but you'd never criticize Jones for refusing a 185 or catchweight fight?

I'm sure your reason would be that it's hard for someone who walks around at 230-240 to cut down to 185, performance would suffer, etc.. But how is Silva supposed to put on 20 pounds of muscle in his mid-30s while keeping up a top-flight fight-training schedule? Would that not be difficult? Or do you just consider it irrelevant?

[TerryB]

@ NULL: don't you have some heavy hands work to do, or was that last week?

Why would Silva leave the MW division unless he gets paid to?

You can think of no other reason why a man who wants to be considered the greatest fighter of all time might fight up the ladder?

It's a big no-no? Really? So that's why Silva should be criticized, but you'd never criticize Jones for refusing a 185 or catchweight fight?

You really don't get it. I thought it was pretty obvious. You don't understand that a larger man traditionally doesn't challenge a smaller man to a fist fight? And you don't understand that if you want to be called the greatest fighter of all time, you might want to issue challenges up the ladder? Silva doesn't have to call out Fedor, but he can't say "I'd be happy to fight GSP!" and then answer "Nope!" when asked if he'd fight Jon Bones Jones. That's a bitch move.

And what makes you think people wouldn't criticize Jon Jones or any heavier man if he refused to fight a smaller man? If a bigger man refuses a challenge from a smaller man, the natural response is that he is scared. Whether it's fair or not is not my problem. That's how it works.

And the "catchweight" angle is something different entirely. If you challenge a bigger man to a fight, you do it on HIS terms. You don't say, "I'll fight you...IF you lose 20 pounds." That's bullshit and the bigger man can say "go fuck yourself" without repurcussion. If you 're going to step up, you step up. You want to be the greatest of all time, you fight the best on their turf and you beat them.

It's simple.

You can't be the greatest fighter of all time while sticking to a small pond full of weak challengers.

[Grandpa's Spells]

Why would Silva leave the MW division unless he gets paid to?

You can think of no other reason why a man who wants to be considered the greatest fighter of all time might fight up the ladder?

He already is. He puts that at risk by going to 205.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Why would Silva leave the MW division unless he gets paid to?

You can think of no other reason why a man who wants to be considered the greatest fighter of all time might fight up the ladder?

He already is. He puts that at risk by going to 205.

Please...I dont neccesarily agree with Proto but for real, you cannot self apoint to GOAT status and not push yourself.

Silva is a product of UFC as much as Fedor was a product of Pride.

[TerryB]

Why would Silva leave the MW division unless he gets paid to?

You can think of no other reason why a man who wants to be considered the greatest fighter of all time might fight up the ladder?

He already is. He puts that at risk by going to 205.

He put it "at risk" once in 2008 against James Irvin, a guy who was never a threat at 205 and had lost to Bonnar and Thiago Silva (the best 205 fighter Irvin ever faced). Irvin was out of the UFC shortly after fighting Silva.

He then unwillingly put it at risk again in 2009 because Dana made him. Silva had put on such a terrible performance against Leites, in what was supposed to be the UFC's big entrance into the Middle East, that Dana almost fired Silva. Instead, Dana forced Silva to fight a slow and plodding Forrest Griffin who always lacked power.

Since then, he's never put his belt at risk and he has no interest in doing so.

He was the best striker in a division with mediocre strikers. Who posed a serious challenge to his striking skills at 185? Yushin Okami? Patrick Cote? Thales Leites? The "new" Vitor Belfort??

He never faced a freestyle wrestler until very recently and when he did, he was completely dominated for 23.5 minutes. And he did everything he could to avoid the rematch, and when the rematch was inevitable, he cheated his ass off.

I think Silva is a great, great striker. But I don't like this play-it-safe bullshit. And I don't think the accolades or "greatest of all time!" are warranted.

[Blaidd Drwg]

He put it "at risk" once in 2008 against James Irvin, a guy who was never a threat at 205 and had lost to Bonnar and Thiago Silva (the best 205 fighter Irvin ever faced). Irvin was out of the UFC shortly after fighting Silva.

He then unwillingly put it at risk again in 2009 because Dana made him. Silva had put on such a terrible performance against Leites, in what was supposed to be the UFC's big entrance into the Middle East, that Dana almost fired Silva. Instead, Dana forced Silva to fight a slow and plodding Forrest Griffin who always lacked power.

Since then, he's never put his belt at risk and he has no interest in doing so.

He was the best striker in a division with mediocre strikers. Who posed a serious challenge to his striking skills at 185? Yushin Okami? Patrick Cote? Thales Leites? The "new" Vitor Belfort??

He never faced a freestyle wrestler until very recently and when he did, he was completely dominated for 23.5 minutes. And he did everything he could to avoid the rematch, and when the rematch was inevitable, he cheated his ass off.

I think Silva is a great, great striker. But I don't like this play-it-safe bullshit. And I don't think the accolades or "greatest of all time!" are warranted.

This is a reasonable analysis.

[Grandpa's Spells]

Why would Silva leave the MW division unless he gets paid to?

You can think of no other reason why a man who wants to be considered the greatest fighter of all time might fight up the ladder?

He already is. He puts that at risk by going to 205.

Please...I dont neccesarily agree with Proto but for real, you cannot self apoint to GOAT status and not push yourself.

Silva is a product of UFC as much as Fedor was a product of Pride.

He's not self-appointed. He's not a huge 185. He'd be a tiny 205, and the only bout that would make any difference in his legacy is Jon Jones, who's at the beginning of his career. Silva's 37.

[baffled]

How is this rancid piece of shit still going?

[TerryB]

GS, serious question. Why would Anderson be the GOAT instead of, say, Matt Hughes? Matt has more total wins and he faced stronger competition in a much more stacked welterweight division. His wins include wins over GSP, BJ Penn, and Sean Sherk, all of whom held championship belts.

[Turdacious]

Why would Silva leave the MW division unless he gets paid to?

You can think of no other reason why a man who wants to be considered the greatest fighter of all time might fight up the ladder?

Because he understands that fighting is a business and that he has a short life span in it? If Dana really wants him to move up, shouldn't he demonstrate it by offering a big enough payday to entice him to do it?

And if he did move up, wouldn't he rather face Jones at a catchweight instead of 205?

[Jay]

GS, serious question. Why would Anderson be the GOAT instead of, say, Matt Hughes? Matt has more total wins and he faced stronger competition in a much more stacked welterweight division. His wins include wins over GSP, BJ Penn, and Sean Sherk, all of whom held championship belts.

That's a good case. Hughes just looked bad at the end of his career and his personality turned off many after TUF.

As a fighter he was one of the best alive in his prime and you can't ever say he ducked a fight.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Why would Silva leave the MW division unless he gets paid to?

You can think of no other reason why a man who wants to be considered the greatest fighter of all time might fight up the ladder?

Because he understands that fighting is a business and that he has a short life span in it? If Dana really wants him to move up, shouldn't he demonstrate it by offering a big enough payday to entice him to do it?

And if he did move up, wouldn't he rather face Jones at a catchweight instead of 205?

Who cares what Dana wants, He's a piece of shit. Silva's record is solid but no way is he greatest of all time. I'd be impressed if he did anyhitng other than showboat and preen, catch weight at 195 would be fine.

As for GOAT, Sakuraba has a lock on that. Why? Because he's the opposite of the GSP's and Silvas..Anywhere...Anytime.

[Grandpa's Spells]

GS, serious question. Why would Anderson be the GOAT instead of, say, Matt Hughes? Matt has more total wins and he faced stronger competition in a much more stacked welterweight division. His wins include wins over GSP, BJ Penn, and Sean Sherk, all of whom held championship belts.

Not sure if you're serious. He was destroyed by GSP when he (MH) was 32. He fought BJ three times and was stopped twice in the first round.

[Turdacious]

Ali was the greatest too-- I doubt Silva wants to take the risk of dome damage necessary to even approach that high water mark. I don't blame him.