Work conflict

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Luke
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Work conflict

Post by Luke »

After being self employed and being able to drift in and out of places largely unanswerable to anyone in particular, recently I'm in a position where I'm reporting into someone. This was fine when said person was like a mentor - but their replacement, while I enjoy a beer and a chat with, isn't skilled in what I do and has kinda (verbally) kicked my ass this week over a minor miscommunication. Which I believe stems from them not really being familiar with my processes by not listening to me.

It's thrown me a bit. It's been really weird in the adult world to negotiate this, because it takes me right back to military school, and I feel like looking a bit younger than I am (I still get ID'd for alcohol from time to time; coming up to 38) projects inexperience. An old man at the gym tried lecturing me on using a spotter last year like I was 15.

Basically, it kicked semi-imposter syndrome up a notch. There's a part of me that defers to authority - older more experienced people etc. but there's another part that wants to tear strips off them when I feel they're out of line. Neither extreme is particularly healthy.

Military folk or whoever, how do you quash this sensation and move on? I'm way too sensitive and way too in my head that I hold onto shit like this!

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Bram
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Work conflict

Post by Bram »

About five years ago, the Dalai Lama came and spoke in San Diego. It was a great speech, but the highlight was what he said about conflict:

"An enemy today can become a friend tomorrow if you use dialogue, kindness, and compassion."

Using the internal cues of "dialogue, kindness, compassion," I've had a 100% success rate in resolving every conflict since then. And yet, I only remember to use it about 1/3rd of the time -- deferring to impatience, self-righteousness, fear, and other disempowering mindsets.

In the past two weeks, I've had a disagreement with my new girlfriend and an uncle. And in both cases, the DL's approach worked perfectly.

Good luck, Luke!
"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

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baffled
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Post by baffled »

Fuck all that.

Old men in the gym can't do a full ROM biceps curl because they're so broken down, so the proper response is to shit talk them and then briskly walk away when they come towards you, letting them trip on a gym bag and whatever may be, will be.

As for the superior/supervisor who's being a cunt, that's harder. I'd maybe ask for 15 minutes of their time, acknowledge the miscommunication, and fill them in on the processes and anything unique to how you accomplish your tasks. Hopefully, that will alleviate the tension and get the ass-chewing to stop.

If they're still a cunt, either line up another go at being self-employed, or look for a competitor, tighten the CV, and present yourself to this competitor and show what your knowledge, skills, and experience can bring to them. If you score a job offer, you put in your two-week notice.

Whatever you do, don't give in to impostor syndrome.

Don't ever let some faggot retard shouldn't ever knock you off your perch. Stay the course or change it if you feel it's the best play for you, but don't question yourself. Be undeniable and let them realize they're making mistakes.
"Gentle in what you do, Firm in how you do it"
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Ronald RayGun
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Post by Ronald RayGun »

I can't speak to the work situation. That could be a delicate tap-dance. As for gym-guy, my main piece of advice for people is to have a firm "go fuck yourself" in the chamber. Fuck that guy and 10 MFers who look like that guy.
"Sorry I didn't save the world, my friend. I was too busy building mine again" - Kendrick Lamar


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Luke
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Post by Luke »

Hahah these posts have been up-lifting. Thank you! I was half-expecting to get trolled for being a pussy.

The zen/aikido approach I'm most used to, so I think I need to match that with some more assertiveness, like baffled said (and like his signature says btw) - or bug out.

Ironically when I've left people like this at other times in my life, they get all upset and mystified as to why I'm going. I wonder whether it's just their way of communicating, whereas I'm too civil.

:drinkers:


motherjuggs&speed
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Post by motherjuggs&speed »

By chance (or was it?) I just looked through a Dale Carnegie book on assertiveness. I read one page and that was that. 95% of the advice you read in those books would only work with the sort of person who wouldn't be an aggressive asshole in the first place. With dealing with an asshole, you have to realize that you're dealing with . . . an asshole. Not a normal person who's having a bad day. You're dealing with someone who enjoys being a prick and doesn't give a shit. You have to push back. I suck at this, being either too mild, which comes across as meek, or cursing them out.

Here's the thing. He's probably being this way partly because he reads you as someone who defers to authority, which emboldens him. You have to be prepared for things like this. You know how you're mentally prepared for and looking out for muggers or other miscreants every time you open the door to leave the house, well, you have to have something like that loaded up to deal with social aggression. Like RR says, have one in the chamber. I find that when I'm ready to get into it with people they're a lot less rude and usually don't pull shit in the first place. It happens less often at least.

As far as tactics, I suggest that you keep in mind that you know what you're doing and he's the one that's wrong. Not in a complaining way, even internally, like why is this guy doing this to me, but rather like, "you don't know what's going on and I do, so stop before you make an even bigger fool out of yourself, clown.". If you respond from a position of strength he'll be less likely to do it again. And other people will be less likely to pull their shit. People suck but most of them are cowards who only go after easy targets so don't be one.

Oh and stop using their and them to refer to one person.


Boris
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Post by Boris »

motherjuggs&speed wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:27 am Here's the thing. He's probably being this way partly because he reads you as someone who defers to authority, which emboldens him. You have to be prepared for things like this. You know how you're mentally prepared for and looking out for muggers or other miscreants every time you open the door to leave the house, well, you have to have something like that loaded up to deal with social aggression. Like RR says, have one in the chamber. I find that when I'm ready to get into it with people they're a lot less rude and usually don't pull shit in the first place. It happens less often at least.
Totally this.

Being assertive and not allowing people to use you as a door mat (whether they're doing unintentionally or not), and doing it well, is a skill worth developing. I've gotten a lot better at this with age and experience and being able to walk away from the job or situation at any time makes a huge difference too. My tolerance for bullshit is much less now than it was 10 years ago. I love my job generally and I want to stay there, but if something happened I could quit tomorrow and be very satisfied with that decision.


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Luke
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Work conflict

Post by Luke »

Thanks MJS & Boris, your words definitely resonate as well. I think you're both right in the sense that I can't keep humoring it.

There was an instance this week where I pushed back with a rhetorical question and he caved in with a resigned laugh and "I don't know". I'm learning he's probably a neuro-divergent, massive stress-head, but that energy is absolutely affecting me. If it doesn't abate, I'll have to leave regardless.

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Turdacious
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Post by Turdacious »

If you think he’s a dick most others probably do too. What is your sense of how his bosses view him? If you’ve got a negative vibe about his bosses it might be time to polish up the resume.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule


Gene
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Post by Gene »

Luke wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:16 am This was fine when said person was like a mentor - but their replacement, while I enjoy a beer and a chat with, isn't skilled in what I do and has kinda (verbally) kicked my ass this week over a minor miscommunication. Which I believe stems from them not really being familiar with my processes by not listening to me.

It's thrown me a bit. It's been really weird in the adult world to negotiate this, because it takes me right back to military school, and I feel like looking a bit younger than I am (I still get ID'd for alcohol from time to time; coming up to 38) projects inexperience. An old man at the gym tried lecturing me on using a spotter last year like I was 15.

Basically, it kicked semi-imposter syndrome up a notch. There's a part of me that defers to authority - older more experienced people etc. but there's another part that wants to tear strips off them when I feel they're out of line. Neither extreme is particularly healthy.

Military folk or whoever, how do you quash this sensation and move on? I'm way too sensitive and way too in my head that I hold onto shit like this!
A boss is the person who has assumed responsibility for the work of their subordinates. I treat bosses as people burdened by that responsibility. My role is to support them to do their job so that they learn to trust me.

Verbal ass kicking should not be necessary with adults. We're not children, this is a place of business. Abuse hurts trust in a relationship.

Subordinates need to push back on ass kicking. We have to teach the boss that ass kicking doesn't work. Reason with us.

I have used Bram's suggestion of dialogue, kindness, compassion and empathy. I put myself in the boss's shoes. What do they require to fulfill their mission? Go do that. It's helped a lot.


motherjuggs&speed
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Grandpa's Spells
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Post by Grandpa's Spells »

JMO, I think this could be a person where "managing up" could be useful, because they actually don't understand. It flips the script a bit and sets you up as the expert explaining to person with authority but not expertise how things work. It helps them, puts you on surer footing. and can improve the relationship a bit. Good thread here:
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.

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nafod
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Post by nafod »

The job market screams find another position if this one doesn’t suit, due to the boss or other.

Sorry that your boss is being a jerk. Genes advice is good, the boss does have a hard job. Help him to help you?
Don’t believe everything you think.


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Luke
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Work conflict

Post by Luke »

A female colleague remarked to someone that this guy is a cunt. She used the word.

After work last night when everyone had left, she asked me how I was getting along with him. She said the attitude she's seen from him is what she's getting from the owner - and she can't tolerate it. She's looking for another job and I said I am too. I didn't think she was experiencing the same as she is very close to a managerial position herself.

The place is just bad juju.

I don't need it badly enough to try and fix things, although it has taken the past week to arrive at this realisation.

Thanks for all your advice and sympathy!

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