Obama on Charleston Black Church Murders

[nafod]

Nine black people get shot by a white guy in church everyday? Really?

Meh

Elementary school shooting, NAVSEA building shooting, lots of high school shootings, occasional college campus shootings, plenty of civilian workforce shootings, movie theatre shooting. None of them happen everyday, but that's just details. Shit like that happens what seems like every day.

I saw it pop on the news and just thought, "Hmmm, black people shot in church. Wonder who's next?"

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

[
Not so, though the NRA tries very hard to portray it that way. Chicago homicides in 2014 hit something like a 40-year low.

You spin well. "Homicides" and "gun violence" are not one in the same.

I'm sure BET is a sounding board for the NRA:

http://www.bet.com/news/national/2015/0 ... rease.html

Your source isn't contradicting any long term trend. It points out the lower murders, while also pointing out an increase in total shootings from 2013 to 2014. One year. If there's a long-term trend on increased non-lethal shootings, I don't know of one, and have looked. But you'd expect them to track murders, and murders are way down.

Murders and gun violence are not always one in the same. Take it from a guy whose seen a family, to include kids, beaten and burned to death.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/04/nyreg ... afire.html

[Kenny X]

Promoting the disarming of all citizens, law-abiding citizens and criminals alike is never the answer.

Strawman, yo. Haven't heard him advocate for the disarmament of all citizens.

And when a politician or a leader pipes-up about that horse puckey, in response to a tragedy like this, it's nothing more than using human misery as currency to push an agenda, and I agree, it's despicable.

Booshit. Advocating for policy in the wake of a tragedy is standard. Guns don't get an exception.

Nobody ever focuses on The Problem. Ever.

What do you think the problem is?

Instead of getting to the bottom of why shit like this happens, they opt to discuss taking people's guns away. It's bullshit. If the perpetrators of this crime didn't have guns, they probably would have opted to burn the church down, with everyone in it, instead.

Eh, no. Kids don't get killed by stray churches burning down, but they get killed by stray bullets. It's easier to outrun a fire than a bullet, too.

The weapons are never the problem. Ever.

This is a really silly thing to say without spelling out what the "real" problem is.

I'm not a lefty on this, and have been shopping firearms training as recently as this week. But acting like the ease of access to firearms by criminals and the mentally ill has absolutely nothing to do with this is obviously wrong.

Motherfuckers have no respect for human life anymore. If those assholes didn't have guns, they'd just figure out another way to kill you and cause collateral damage. FACT.

[nafod]

...they'd just figure out another way to kill you and cause collateral damage. FACT.

It's so much easier to catch someone trying to build a bomb (for example). From the moment they start collecting the materials they are breaking the law. With a gun? Guy's a patriot until he starts pulling the trigger.

[bennyonesix]

Motherfuckers have no respect for human life anymore. If those assholes didn't have guns, they'd just figure out another way to kill you and cause collateral damage. FACT.

Not young black or hispanic males.

[Sangoma]

Nobody ever focuses on The Problem. Ever. Instead of getting to the bottom of why shit like this happens, they opt to discuss taking people's guns away. It's bullshit. If the perpetrators of this crime didn't have guns, they probably would have opted to burn the church down, with everyone in it, instead.

The weapons are never the problem. Ever.

How do you focus on the Problem? Can you change the inequalities of the society? How do you address the misdirected hate of underdeveloped embryos with the moral standards of an amoeba who have access to guns?

I am curious about your logic in your last line. Can you shoot someone without a weapon?

[Blaidd Drwg]

I'll say it....

Some Legislation *might* have helped prevent this...I'd still be against that legislation. Fuck the politicizing as the bodies cool...fuck the left on the anti-liberty fucktards forever.


More stringent gun control (that falls short of registration and confiscation) with regard to the mentally ill *might* have prevented the way a bunch of tragedies went down over the last few years.

Fact is...I don't care. Just like with drunks and cars, and dangerous railings at the grand canyon, I accept that the world has a lot of death and mayhem in it...the chances of this happening to me and mine is infinitesimally small (and I have close family members that were in a mass shooting event in Baltimore)

[bennyonesix]

Fact is...I don't care. Just like with drunks and cars, and dangerous railings at the grand canyon, I accept that the world has a lot of death and mayhem in it...the chances of this happening to me and mine is infinitesimally small (and I have close family members that were in a mass shooting event in Baltimore)

Not same same at all.

Your chances of getting hit by a drunk are significant.

Your chances of getting shot by a young black male are higher than you think if you spend any time around them...

But yes, your chances of being in a mass shooting at the hands of a white male of any age are infinitesimally small...

[Blaidd Drwg]

Fact is...I don't care. Just like with drunks and cars, and dangerous railings at the grand canyon, I accept that the world has a lot of death and mayhem in it...the chances of this happening to me and mine is infinitesimally small (and I have close family members that were in a mass shooting event in Baltimore)

Not same same at all.

Your chances of getting hit by a drunk are significant.

Your chances of getting shot by a young black male are higher than you think if you spend any time around them...

But yes, your chances of being in a mass shooting at the hands of a white male of any age are infinitesimally small...

Shut up.

[The Ginger Beard Man]

http://nypost.com/2015/06/18/cop-stabbe ... y-station/
You're right, guns are the problem.

[johno]

Data (from your hometown of the Windy City or my hometown of NYC, also shows that tight gun laws do jack squat).

Chicago homicides in 2014 hit something like a 40-year low. We aren't even on the radar for per-capita homicides, nor is NYC.

Come on. You can't take credit for a 40 year decrease by passing legislation in the last year, especially when it took forever for permits to start being issued.

Context, Comrade. You claimed that tight gun laws lower crime. I pointed out that Chicago's loosened laws were followed by a decrease in murder.

[TerryB]

Mass shooters, the subject of today, are overwhelmingly white males.

How many Americans are killed by mass shooters, of any color, per year?

How many Americans are killed by black shooters per year?

[bennyonesix]

Nice work proto.

[johno]

How many Americans are killed by mass shooters, of any color, per year?

How many Americans are killed by black shooters per year?

Oh, you're going straight to hell.

[tonkadtx]

Mass shooters, the subject of today, are overwhelmingly white males.

Incorrect. Based on percentage of population, the are slanted towards minorities.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... -full-data

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles ... white.html

[Gene]

...they'd just figure out another way to kill you and cause collateral damage. FACT.

It's so much easier to catch someone trying to build a bomb (for example). From the moment they start collecting the materials they are breaking the law. With a gun? Guy's a patriot until he starts pulling the trigger.

The Unabomber made how many bombs, Nafod? How many did the Weathermen make? You gotta get caught first. How many bombs did you make as a kid? Who didn't do it as a kid?

If you're a convicted felon, juvenile or have a Class Firearm 3 you're going to be doing time.


Firearms are still bush league in mass killings. Baruch Goldstein only managed to kill 29 people with his issue Galil and hand grenades at the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre.


The biggest mass murder in US history by a single individual was done with some chain and a can of gasoline. 87 Dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire


Biggest school massacre was the Bath Michigan killings. The clown used dynamite which he packed under the school.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster


This shooting sucks but it's not cause for gun control, not with how many people killed in Chicago over Memorial Day weekend. Half of the recovered firearms in Chicago are bought in Cook County by people with Illinois firearm owners ID cards. Ninety four percent of the Straw Purchasers in Chicago do not get Federal prosecution. Most of these kids are fighting over drug markets and drug debt.

Want to cut murders? End the War on Drugs.

We don't need any more gun control. We need less bullshit and less excuses for fucked up humans.

[Protobuilder]

Communities have had to endure tragedies like this too many times," he continued. "Once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. ... We as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/1 ... 13074.html

Pres. Obama chooses to immediately use this tragedy to push European style gun control. He could have promoted national unity at the horror of this hate crime, but NO.

Divisive and despicable.

I was offline for ~12 hours and just heard of this so he might have said something later but from what I heard he didn't actually call for anything.

That sort of makes it worse, in my book. No proposal, no plan, no idea - just a quick sound byte to score a few political points and look good to his fans.

[Turdacious]

It couldn't even get through a Democratic Senate the last time it was tried. Not sure what the point is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_contr ... nal_action

[Protobuilder]

Damn, I just went through Facebook.

It's sad day for America when IGX is the most reasoned, balanced discussion on any current issue.

[Kenny X]

Nobody ever focuses on The Problem. Ever. Instead of getting to the bottom of why shit like this happens, they opt to discuss taking people's guns away. It's bullshit. If the perpetrators of this crime didn't have guns, they probably would have opted to burn the church down, with everyone in it, instead.

The weapons are never the problem. Ever.

How do you focus on the Problem? Can you change the inequalities of the society? How do you address the misdirected hate of underdeveloped embryos with the moral standards of an amoeba who have access to guns?

I am curious about your logic in your last line. Can you shoot someone without a weapon?

You can still kill someone without a gun. The means of execution is irrelevant. It's the fact that it'll happen one way or the other if it's gonna happen, that's the problem. A person who's filled with misdirected hate, who wants to kill people, will kill people whether he has access to a firearm or not. Taking all the weapons away, because of a few fucked up people, won't solve anything.

[nafod]

...they'd just figure out another way to kill you and cause collateral damage. FACT.

It's so much easier to catch someone trying to build a bomb (for example). From the moment they start collecting the materials they are breaking the law. With a gun? Guy's a patriot until he starts pulling the trigger.

The Unabomber made how many bombs, Nafod? How many did the Weathermen make? You gotta get caught first. How many bombs did you make as a kid? Who didn't do it as a kid?

If you're a convicted felon, juvenile or have a Class Firearm 3 you're going to be doing time.


Firearms are still bush league in mass killings. Baruch Goldstein only managed to kill 29 people with his issue Galil and hand grenades at the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre.


The biggest mass murder in US history by a single individual was done with some chain and a can of gasoline. 87 Dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire


Biggest school massacre was the Bath Michigan killings. The clown used dynamite which he packed under the school.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
Want to cut murders? End the War on Drugs.

We don't need any more gun control. We need less bullshit and less excuses for fucked up humans.

I agree with your argument for ending the war on drugs. Denver and Colorado has shown a remarkable decrease in violent crime, for example. Stoners aren't shooters.

But your old "just as easy to kill someone with a bomb" bullshit, well, that's just bullshit. The Happy Land guy got lucky because it was a social club and there were no available fire exits or sprinklers or etc., ala Rhode Island nightclub fire. Kind of embarassing for a mass murderer when a tier 2 rock band can kill more with their pyrotechnic display.

For every one of those, how many are there where the prospective 87 victims just walk out the door wet from the sprinklers? How many other targets for arson are that soft to the point of being illegally soft? Probably a few sweatshops here and there, but certainly no Naval Sea Systems Command buildings or elementary schools.

How many months of planning did it take for the Bath School guy to pull off his shit? Ten months.

How much access did he have to the attack site in order to plant his upwards of 700 pounds of explosives? He had total access as he worked there as an electrician.

Seven hundred pounds of explosives. That's World Trade Center conspiracy theory levels of explosives he "snuck in".

That's an awful lot of "just-so" events and 10 months of seriously planning in order to pull that off. If he had had easy access to assault rifles and 100 round magazines you don't think he'd have skipped those 10 months and just got down to it?

With a bombing, you can fuck it up designing it and getting it wrong, building it and getting caught because you are breaking the law, killing yourself accidentally while assembling it (happens all the time), getting caught placing it, having it not go off, or having it go off but the victims aren't there. Low probability of success, although chance for great glory.

With a couple of assault rifles and and some magazines, sure you may not achieve Bath School levels of glory, but unless all your weapons jam, those elementary school children, government employees, church patrons, or couples out on their movie night are going down. Period. You get to pick the time and the place. Act while the rage is hot if you feel like it. Minimal prep required. Smaller numbers but guaranteed numbers.

The market has spoken. Guns, it is.

[Beer Jew]

These poor peoples' bodies.....A time to lean on each other and somehow make it through?

Have I stepped through the rabbit hole into some alternate dimension, or has someone hacked Kaz's account?

[Grandpa's Spells]

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way- ... this-36131

[bennyonesix]

Pot + Booze is the most common criminal correlation.

Gun Crime is a young black male problem (and to a lesser but still real extent hispanic young male problem).

We could arm the fuck out of all other demographic groups and things would be fine as long as we disarmed the young black males.

Hell, we could mandate concealed carry 24/7 for all other demos and things would be fine as long as we disarmed the young black males.

The bit in italics is why the Left cannot accept that guns don't kill people.

[johno]

It's true that you can kill someone with a knife or baseball bat or bomb, but a gun is a more effective tool. It's much more effective for self defense, especially for smaller & weaker folk.