So... that torture report

[nafod]

Doing the right thing when it is easy isn't so much of a thing. The character emerges when things get hard.

If we are going to torture when we get scared, write it into the damn Constitution and make it law.

[Fat Cat]

Doing the right thing when it is easy isn't so much of a thing. The character emerges when things get hard.

If we are going to torture when we get scared, write it into the damn Constitution and make it law.

They are not citizens and are not entitled to the protections of the Constitution. Also, perhaps you are not aware that we won WW2 by firebombing and nuking civilian centers. Stop your nancy.

[Turdacious]

If we are going to torture when we get scared, write it into the damn Constitution and make it law.

It's past practice-- the founders did it, and did not ban it. Many legal things are not in the Constitution.

[Turdacious]

It would probably be even more efficacious to get the children of the purported terrorist and threaten to torture them if he doesn't talk. Of course you'd actually have to torture them to be sure he wasn't just telling lies, but since efficacy is the metric here, what are we waiting for?

Or maybe you haven't paid much attention to what we're are talking about-- we have self imposed limits, nobody denies that. Efficacy is only one of our measures.

[Turdacious]

That's a three fold null argument, Turd.

Null Thing one...unless you know, what no one is allowed to know, you don't have an opinion on efficacy or whether or not enhanced interrogation even works...you have to trust us...No one is allowed facts on which to form an reasoned judgement so trust our judgement.. Nonsense...you cant have it both ways.

Null Thing Two: The report is actualy extremely thorough in many regards, enough so that anyone could form an opinion one way or the other as to whether enhanced interrogation is good policy on whatever grounds the chose to make that decision. One does not need ALL the minutia and facts in order to form a reasoned judgement..They put the report out in the first place for just that reason. To allow informed policy to be made.

Null Thing Three: Principles/Morals/Guidelines/Policies are rarely if ever based on these out in the weeds minutiae you seem to want to hide under your cloak. Principles are based on ideals of who the country wants to be, not necessarily who it is when it defaults to exigency based behavior. The whole point of having principles is so you don;t default to the lowest common denominator behavior of your enemy. You either have principles because you believe in them no matter what or you don't really have them at all.

As I have stated explicitly and repeatedly. I am completely fine with the notion that TOTALWAR is sound policy if it's done with full awareness that this is a choice we make as a nation. I don;t think we're there...failing that, the only other viable alternative worth any stock are traditional American values such as ....we don;t torture, we don't purposefully target civilians, we dont intern people, we believe in due process. The path the services have us on is to play around at TOTALWAR as long as no one is looking and then go running home like scared bitches when we get caught out violating long held principles.

That hypocrisy is what is making us a nation of soft cunts and shitbirds.

My objection is to your claim of a perfect understanding of human nature, and how humans react to stress. Your Dr. Philish platitudes are way too simplistic.

[Blaidd Drwg]

I have made no such claim. I do have the advantage over you of having read a good deal of the doc and thought about it after. Your recycled talking points seem to be failing you..after we come back from commercial, tell us how that's working for you.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Context.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014 ... ument.html

[Protobuilder]

Doing the right thing when it is easy isn't so much of a thing. The character emerges when things get hard.

If we are going to torture when we get scared, write it into the damn Constitution and make it law.

They are not citizens and are not entitled to the protections of the Constitution. Also, perhaps you are not aware that we won WW2 by firebombing and nuking civilian centers. Stop your nancy.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, unless they are born outside the US, then fuck them.

[Turdacious]

I have made no such claim. I do have the advantage over you of having read a good deal of the doc and thought about it after. Your recycled talking points seem to be failing you..after we come back from commercial, tell us how that's working for you.

Then I'll recycle them again in the hopes you'll understand them. The choice to torture, or what forms of torture (if any) to use, needs to be measured against the consequences of not doing it and the importance of the information you want to gain. It's a serious decision, not to be made lightly.

There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

[Blaidd Drwg]

I take it back. You had no point. 6000 pages of analysis and 587 pages of summary based on a review of literally millions of documents pointing inexorably in the direction that regardless of your perspective on its correctness....it's not effective and that the CIA lied consistently.

If that is taking it lightly, then you have been in the beltway for way too fuckng long son. You seriously need to read the thing before you run your Fox News talking points any further.

[Batboy2/75]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpH5L8zCtSk[/youtube]

I listen to Reagan's words and I don't feel like torturing anyone. Torture is morally wrong and an affront to our national honor. It also pisses on the sacrifices our POWs. Particularly the POWS from the Korean and Vietnam wars.

I also sure as hell don't feel like appeasing our enemies an longer. I'm actually getting tired of the fact that we have been fighting the war on terror ass backwards. It's high time we stopped with this nation building crap, stopped wringing our hands about what the world will think and started killing these fuckers. That means recognizing many of the turds we have been calling allies are in fact our enemies; Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey etc.

[Fat Cat]

Doing the right thing when it is easy isn't so much of a thing. The character emerges when things get hard.

If we are going to torture when we get scared, write it into the damn Constitution and make it law.

They are not citizens and are not entitled to the protections of the Constitution. Also, perhaps you are not aware that we won WW2 by firebombing and nuking civilian centers. Stop your nancy.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, unless they are born outside the US, then fuck them.

You are thinking of the Declaration of Independence. Civics class nigga.

[Turdacious]

Nothing that the CIA torturers did compares to the shit Bob Lambert pulled. The ability of humans to rationalize and prioritize is greater than you know.

[Protobuilder]

Doing the right thing when it is easy isn't so much of a thing. The character emerges when things get hard.

If we are going to torture when we get scared, write it into the damn Constitution and make it law.

They are not citizens and are not entitled to the protections of the Constitution. Also, perhaps you are not aware that we won WW2 by firebombing and nuking civilian centers. Stop your nancy.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, unless they are born outside the US, then fuck them.

You are thinking of the Declaration of Independence. Civics class nigga.

Took all the same propaganda courses you did, bro. In 1776 all men were equal under God. Nine years later, not so much. Two hundred years later, people pretend to give lip service to the idea.

[powerlifter54]

As i have pointed out to those who doubt whether enhanced interrogation works, in 20 mins easy to have every one of your computer and atm passwords without leaving a mark. Except in your skivvies.

Not even a doubt will get it right first time. It is only a talking point that it doesn't work. Very McGruberish.

And to the handwringers who wonder if jihadists are our equals...spend some time over there. Watch the way they treat women. kids, and animals.

[Blaidd Drwg]

About every 10th time Jack posts something it occurs to me that more people need to try ecstasy.

[Sangoma]

And to the handwringers who wonder if jihadists are our equals...spend some time over there. Watch the way they treat women. kids, and animals.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That, of course, was for the general public. Those of us who are above the average know how to tweak it to make it fork for the better good.

[Turdacious]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That, of course, was for the general public. Those of us who are above the average know how to tweak it to make it fork for the better good.

You do realize that there's more than one sentence in the Declaration of Independence, don't you? The rest of them are important too.

[Sangoma]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That, of course, was for the general public. Those of us who are above the average know how to tweak it to make it fork for the better good.

You do realize that there's more than one sentence in the Declaration of Independence, don't you? The rest of them are important too.

It doesn't matter.

[Turdacious]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That, of course, was for the general public. Those of us who are above the average know how to tweak it to make it fork for the better good.

You do realize that there's more than one sentence in the Declaration of Independence, don't you? The rest of them are important too.

It doesn't matter.

I hope you don't read like this in your professional life.

The last two sentences of the Declaration are the most important ones.

[powerlifter54]

"People do not want to hear the truth because they do not want their illusions destroyed"-Nietzsche

[Sangoma]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That, of course, was for the general public. Those of us who are above the average know how to tweak it to make it fork for the better good.

You do realize that there's more than one sentence in the Declaration of Independence, don't you? The rest of them are important too.

It doesn't matter.

I hope you don't read like this in your professional life.

The last two sentences of the Declaration are the most important ones.

I disagree. I think the one I quoted is more important one.

[Sangoma]

"People do not want to hear the truth because they do not want their illusions destroyed"-Nietzsche

In war, truth is the first casualty. - Aeschylus

[Blaidd Drwg]

PL54,
First, a thank you....it's beyond amusing to listen to you hold that their culture is morally inferior ergo we can feel comfortable with torture because we ourselves, are morally superior.

A morally superior culture wouldn't make battlefield exigencies national policy.


Before you sound off your blowhorn, please remember I agree that their culture is repugnant and anti-rational...and that I think a strong argument can be made for totalwar...it's just not one WE can make without coring the center out of our ideals.

[Sangoma]

I agree that their culture is repugnant and anti-rational...and that I think a strong argument can be made for totalwar..

Out of interest, why do you think so?