WR3ZTLING

[Turdacious]

Crockett Cup 4/19/86

Sheepherders v. Fantastics

[T200]

Fantastics are one of the most underrated tag teams out there imo

[T200]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCmGqN_M1Gc[/youtube]

[Koko, Beware]

You Tube is the best. I sort of remember seeing this as a kid, but over the years my wrestling buddies and I had convinced ourselves we'd imnagined it because we couldn't find a clip.

Now to see this and as a bonus, the jobber is Frankie "I Got No Room For Nobody" Williams.

[T200]

[Turdacious]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70jb-p1EYjs[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCkACTKLbto[/youtube]

[T200]

[dead man walking]

dying prematurely is what these guys do best



http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/are- ... sual-rate/

[T200]

dying prematurely is what these guys do best

dying prematurely is what these guys do to do what they do best

[Turdacious]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFaGXZCFGk4[/youtube]

[TomFurman]

I didn't know Viscera died. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Frazier,_Jr.
Notorious for hurting other wrestlers.

[TomFurman]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KloN39L8nk[/youtube]

[Turdacious]

Forty years ago, for Shaggy:

[T200]

Forty years ago, for Shaggy:

new Bruno interview from Sunday

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/365network ... nday-night

[T200]

If this appears smaller you can click on it and make it big enough to actually read...Bruno retirement 10-81

[T200]

[T200]

koko on velvet

[TerryB]

someone let us know when the toxicology report and/or autopsy/medical review whatever it's called is released on the ultimate warrior

[T200]

I'll post it when I see it.

Here is Meltzer's commentary on a new ESPN article on wrestling deaths

An article at the fivethirtyeight.com web site, an ESPN-based site, looked at the question of wrestler deaths, brought up once again by the highly publicized death of Ultimate Warrior.

Author Benjamin Morris noted growing up during the tmie of WrestleMania VI, and the number of performers on that show who have passed away.

He ran numbers on all major WWF stars who performed on PPV between 1985, the time of the first WrestleMania, and 2002, so what was considered a previous era and not a current era. It’s early to know how the many changes between scheduling, lifestyle and drug testing put into place in 2005 (although it was also in place from 1992 to 1995) will change things going forward. In addition, until the current performers reach 50 and we look back and compare, we won’t have a good reading on how much changes have been positive. The feeling is that things are a lot better than they were, but it’s too early to tell how much better.

I don’t suspect the problems will be nearly so bad for a number of reasons. The key is the recreational drug usage, while not gone, is nothing like the prior generation. Similarly, the steroid and GH usage isn’t gone, but the out of control usage of huge amounts is probably not there. For example, if there is talent using low dosages of testosterone and GH that can fall under the radar of the current testing, that’s low dosages, and you don’t have guys who were 155 pounds as high school seniors running around at 275. The current look is an in-shape athletic look, and granted, that’s not easy to achieve and maintain for a lot of people and you are still judged by your body, but in-ring performance and verbal skills are far more important. Still, a “bad” body even today is a huge detriment.

The guys with the big problems, as a general rule, were the heavy users, who were the blown-up huge bodybuilder types who combined that use with recreational drugs or heavy pain killer usage. There may still be heavy users of GH, but nobody still knows what the long-term issues are with that drug (they don’t really know with steroids either as few studies have been done, and the ones that have been, like in Germany, yielded results so scary that everyone ignores them since they were foreign).

Before going further, I want to make a few points regarding WWE. While WWE has always promoted bodies as more of an indicator of star power than any other promotion, every promotion gave preferential treatment in almost every era based on physiques to some degree. And fans reacted to the physiques as well. Guys thought people with big muscles or ripped bodies meant they were tougher and better fighters. Women were attracted to them. Until the steroid era, where a good physique ended up in a large percentage of cases constituting bad health instead of good health, there wasn’t any negativity in the portrayal. Even a “real wrestler” like Lou Thesz noted in his era he felt a main eventer shouldn’t look like a guy in the stands.

You don’t have to be the Ultimate Warrior, and in fact, I’d believe they’d prefer you weren’t. Mason Ryan, the closest equivalent to Warrior–although more compared to a larger version of Batista, had a brief run on the main roster but now is in developmental and not even heavily featured. I was there when Jim Ross directly told John Cena when he was starting out to shed 20 pounds when he was a ripped up bodybuilder looking guy in his early 20s so he’d be more agile and have more stamina. But they emphasize weight training and correct dieting, as they should. But everyone is genetically different. With the program they have in place, a good percentage of people should be able to get a pretty presentable body without drugs and some genetically gifted should be able to get a very good body. Given that one of the things they look for in signing talent is their body, the idea is, as a general rule, you’re getting people at the high end of the genetic scale to begin with. But that means people are going to look for an edge. I don’t care what sport it is, or in Hollywood, use is there, because the lure is too big to stay in the spotlight, particularly as one ages, whether it’s to tack on a few lucrative seasons at the end of the career, or be able to get lead parts as you age. But one would think low dosages aren’t as dangerous as crazy dosages. But how much significant use over decades corresponds to long-term mortality rates is an unknown question.

Still, there are going to be guys who are talented in some form, whether they are great wrestlers in the ring or who can talk, or both, that may have problems getting the right kind of physique. And there are always going to be the Alexander Rusev types who are going to stand out because of their look. And in theory, it’s a business based on extremes and uniqueness, that’s where the PEDs come in, because they are an aid to get to where you are going.

In 2007, I did extensive research into the subject. The problem was very clearly not a WWE problem. It was an American pro wrestling problem. While there were young deaths in Japan and Mexico, on a percentage basis, it was not close to that of the U.S.

Of the companies involved, as far as the late 90s went, it was ECW, with the heavy drug culture, that had the highest percentage of early deaths. ECW had less emphasis on physiques at the time than the other two companies. WCW was second, and WWF was third. However, all three were fairly close. The point being that the heavy drug use away from steroids is probably a more significant part of the death rate than the steroids, which get talked about more. I did recently look at a summer 1992 issue of the Observer where I did full roster directories for WWF and WCW, and 25.4% of the WWE active roster at that point have passed away while 19.6% of the WCW roster has passed away.

The other research I found was that wrestlers from the prior generation, which would be categorized as the 1970s, did not have anywhere close to the same problems. Those wrestlers were wilder and more undisciplined, made less money and worked very hard schedules for the most part. They drank far more, they ate far worse. Steroids were around from the 60s, but use exploded circa 1984 when you really started seeing the difference in the bodies as a whole. Before that era, you had a few guys with the bodybuilder physiques. Post 1984, the guys who were pushed, with the usual exceptions since no rule in wrestling is hard and fast, they made up the highest earners and it became the look you needed to be a star. Cocaine was strong in the 80s and 90s. Pain killers were always a part of wrestling, but the drug of choice was more alcohol and marijuana in the 70s, with some heavy users, particularly of the alcohol. From that era, guys did die young at a rate more than Major League Baseball players, but nowhere close to the post-1985 generation, even with far more drinking, far more eating, and far more guys being way overweight.

Morris’ tables covered WWF talent based on those who would have already turned 60 by April 1, 2014, and using Social Security Administration tables of the public at large. Keep in mind, that if anything, because this table was of people who made their mark in WWF (only stars, not enhancement talent was figured in–as it was figured based on people who had performed on at least 20 PPV shows), these are people who made good or great money during those years. They earned, on average, multiple times more than the average person being compared with, and thus, could afford better care. They also, if they developed drug issues, had a company that would provide free rehab, which the general public doesn’t have, and followed up closely with those in the program, giving an emotional support staff. In addition, there is, due to the problems of the past, an emphasis on keeping the talent healthy that wasn’t there with the prior generation to anywhere near the same extent. And as a general rule, due to their professional needs, wrestlers train much harder, particularly when it comes to cardio these days. The cardio requirements are higher than the past with the faster-paced style and generally lighter roster. Wrestlers also eat far better than the public at large.

Granted, the travel was very difficult and it is a very physical business, but other very physical sports where the career spans are shorter also have nowhere near the level of early death issues.

Age (as of 4/1/14) Those in public passed away Those in WWF
Born 1974-79 1.9% 10.0%
Born 1969-74 3.0% 16.0%
Born 1964-69 5.1% 10.0%
Born 1959-64 7.5% 20.0%
Born 1954-59 10.4% 17.9%

One thing notable is that the sample size in the individual age groups is relatively small, when you consider they are WWF performers who were only major stars (203 wrestlers in all) during a time frame. Looking at all major pro wrestling stars from that era, not limited to the biggest of the WWE stars would probably normalize things such as more deaths of those born 1969-74 than 1964-69.

On a percentage basis, between the ages of 35 and 40, a WWF wrestler from that era was 5.3 times more likely to pass away than someone in the general public. Between 40 and 45, a wrestler is also 5.3 times as likely to pass away. Between 45 and 50, a wrestler is 1.9 times as likely to pass away.

Looking at that, the ages of 35 to 45 is when a wrestlers career is coming to a close. At 45, the majority were out of the business, or hanging on working weekends but more part of the general public. Those with the real problems at the extreme end (and obviously some at the extreme end survived and some who weren’t were unlucky, I’m speaking very generally) in many cases were already gone by 45. From 50 to 55, it jumps back up to 2.7 times the death rate, so this may be a case where the abuses from the past that may no longer be there start taking their toll the most, although it also could be with a larger sample the numbers would be closer. From 55 to 60, it is 1.7 times as likely.

If you look at modern generation WWE talent, the numbers thus far are different. The only death of a modern WWE wrestler born between 1974 and 1979 thus far is Andrew Martin (Test), which was the typical wrestler death of someone who had pain killer issues from serious injuries as well as was a steroid user. Lance Cade was born in 1981 so his death is actually too early to count on these lists.

Of those born between 1969 and 1974, you have Eddie Fatu (Umaga–pain killer issues and lost his job in WWE over refusing to go to rehab, and was in the 2007 investigation that had a number of WWE wrestlers getting steroids and GH from Internet-based Signature Pharmacy), Chris Candito (heavy pain killer and steroid use), Mike Lockwood (Crash Holly–suicide) and Nelson Frazier (Big Daddy V, who wrestled most of his career at more than 400 pounds). That’s still almost triple by percentage what you would expect, but less than half of the prior generation. Of those, really, only Frazier and Fatu were in the post-Guerrero death generation when changes started to be made. Louis Spicolli, born in 1971, wouldn’t make the list because of the cutoff of not fitting into the category of a top level WWF star.

With what little information we have, it does appear things are better. Logic based on all the changes in the business, including a more sane road schedule, drug testing, and a selection process where drug usage is considered when it really wasn’t in the past is that it would be the case. But I’d really want to hesitate saying that directly until 2022, which is a long time from now, when a 30 year old WWE modern generation wrestler in 2007, at the time of the Benoit situation, hits his 50th birthday.

Of those born 1964 to 1969 the deaths are Chris Benoit (suicide, although it later came out he had significant heart issues at the time of his death), Owen Hart (falling from the top of an arena doing a stunt), Eddy Guerrero (heart attack with long-term steroid and narcotic use linked) and Rodney Anoa’i (Yokozuna–who was 600 pounds at the time of his death and at times was more than 700 pounds), which, by percentage is 2.4 times the general public. Once you get to those birthdays, almost all would be considered prior generation. Hart’s death was an aberration, Yokozuna was a star in the 90s, and Benoit and Guerrero’s death were the major catalysts of the change. Anyone older would be more prior generation. With the benefit of hindsight, the one thing that can be said is that most, if not all of the wrestling deaths prior to 2005 were to a degree in vain, other than the large number combined being a factor with the Guerrero death, which saw WWE start to take serious action. The Benoit death, even though it was not at the time from what had become the far-too-often pattern of wrestler deaths, the heart problems that were related to drug issues, ended up leading to major industry changes both as it pertained to drugs and concussions.

It should be noted that research using different standards of what a star is does even out those born 1954 to 1959 and 1959 to 1964, so the weirdness of the poll above just had to do with the sample used. According to research by Chris Harrington, overall, it’s actually 20% of the wrestlers born 1959 to 1964 who were WWE stars have already passed away, which is nearly triple the general public. Of those born between 1954 to 1959, including modern names, it’s 21%, or double that of the general public.

[Herv100]

Fucking awesome Flair story

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LCoEFXdRC8[/youtube]

[Herv100]

Road story from one of the Crockett Cups. Being an NWA wrestler in the 70s and 80s = Best life ever if you didn't kill yourself

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ozQVYHisfA[/youtube]

[Herv100]

One of the top 5 matches of all time IMO, because of the match itself and the famous double turn. Maybe my personal favorite

[Turdacious]

One of the top 5 matches of all time IMO, because of the match itself and the famous double turn. Maybe my personal favorite

Statistically, at least one of the three should be dead according to 538.
One of my favorites too.

[Turdacious]

Speaking of I quit matches:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HitHAHRTmcU[/youtube]

[Herv100]

Speaking of I quit matches:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HitHAHRTmcU[/youtube]

Awesome. That is one of my absolute favorite matches as well.