Your argument has emotional appeal, but from a logical standpoint it is weak. A mixture of circumstantial ad hominem and poisoning the well. Your argument is that since coach is not in great shape, crossfit must not be good, which is an obvious non sequitur. And which is disappointing to see, coming from a lawyer. I guess lawyers are so used to arguing to Groups Of Stupid People aka Juries that they let their skills fall off.bill fox wrote: So seeing someone who, as far as has ever been demonstrated or seen to my knowledge, diss guys that are REALLY STAYING HARD year after year is complete bullshit.
The couch thread
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Don’t believe everything you think.
He mangled his syntax via typos there, but I believe what AbGod was getting at was Cooch's habit of dissing other trainers, like calling PL54 "an incredibly weak performer." Yet he apparently does not bother to train at all. I.E., he throws stones, but his own house is made of glass. Or lard, or something.nafod wrote:Your argument has emotional appeal, but from a logical standpoint it is weak. A mixture of circumstantial ad hominem and poisoning the well. Your argument is that since coach is not in great shape, crossfit must not be good, which is an obvious non sequitur. And which is disappointing to see, coming from a lawyer. I guess lawyers are so used to arguing to Groups Of Stupid People aka Juries that they let their skills fall off.bill fox wrote: So seeing someone who, as far as has ever been demonstrated or seen to my knowledge, diss guys that are REALLY STAYING HARD year after year is complete bullshit.
GDG!
The flesh is weak, and the smell of pussy is strong like a muthafucka.
Welcomenafod wrote:Your argument has emotional appeal, but from a logical standpoint it is weak. A mixture of circumstantial ad hominem and poisoning the well. Your argument is that since coach is not in great shape, crossfit must not be good, which is an obvious non sequitur. And which is disappointing to see, coming from a lawyer. I guess lawyers are so used to arguing to Groups Of Stupid People aka Juries that they let their skills fall off.bill fox wrote: So seeing someone who, as far as has ever been demonstrated or seen to my knowledge, diss guys that are REALLY STAYING HARD year after year is complete bullshit.
And go fuck yourself.
Do your reading. I have defended CF here and at DD, and I'm one of the few, although not only, people who have really done CF "as RXed", as they say, for long enough to speak from experience. I have also written articles for Rob Wolff's mag (CF Norcal) on alternative "black boxes" for older types.
I have problems with aspects of the CF program, mostly in terms of safety and recovery, but certainly no problem with combining Oly, BW, KBs and running into circuits.
My comments, as GDG points out, were directed at Couchs predilection for trashing athletes like Cotter, Jack, Dan John and Mark Twight (and to a lesser extent, me) on both performance and moral high ground issues while maintaining neither.
Arguing to a jury is a skill, idiot. I tend not to agonize too much over weather Okham would need to unsheathe his razor as to my diatribes here.
"my body stayin' vicious, I be up in the gym, just workin' on my fitness"
Fergie
Fergie
I've done my reading, and I've done crossfit-ish workouts 3+ years too.bill fox wrote: Do your reading. I have defended CF here and at DD, and I'm one of the few, although not only, people who have really done CF "as RXed", as they say, for long enough to speak from experience. I have also written articles for Rob Wolff's mag (CF Norcal) on alternative "black boxes" for older types.
What I see is a bunch of egos plopping them out on a table and seeing whose is bigger. I don't care. Crossfit is mostly free, makes tons of excellent information readily available, and if Grandpa has occasional spells...I just look the other way. This pissing match just makes everyone look petty and bitter. Kee-rist, it's just a fucking workout program. Like Pete Townsend said about his guitars, he doesn't make love to it, he just plays the damn thing.bill fox wrote: My comments, as GDG points out, were directed at Couchs predilection for trashing athletes like Cotter, Jack, Dan John and Mark Twight (and to a lesser extent, me) on both performance and moral high ground issues while maintaining neither.
[/quote]
Arguing to a jury IS arguing to idiots.bill fox wrote: Arguing to a jury is a skill, idiot. I tend not to agonize too much over weather Okham would need to unsheathe his razor as to my diatribes here.
Don’t believe everything you think.
nafod wrote:I've done my reading, and I've done crossfit-ish workouts 3+ years too.bill fox wrote: Do your reading. I have defended CF here and at DD, and I'm one of the few, although not only, people who have really done CF "as RXed", as they say, for long enough to speak from experience. I have also written articles for Rob Wolff's mag (CF Norcal) on alternative "black boxes" for older types.
What I see is a bunch of egos plopping them out on a table and seeing whose is bigger. I don't care. Crossfit is mostly free, makes tons of excellent information readily available, and if Grandpa has occasional spells...I just look the other way. This pissing match just makes everyone look petty and bitter. Kee-rist, it's just a fucking workout program. Like Pete Townsend said about his guitars, he doesn't make love to it, he just plays the damn thing.bill fox wrote: My comments, as GDG points out, were directed at Couchs predilection for trashing athletes like Cotter, Jack, Dan John and Mark Twight (and to a lesser extent, me) on both performance and moral high ground issues while maintaining neither.
Arguing to a jury IS arguing to idiots.[/quote]bill fox wrote: Arguing to a jury is a skill, idiot. I tend not to agonize too much over weather Okham would need to unsheathe his razor as to my diatribes here.
"my body stayin' vicious, I be up in the gym, just workin' on my fitness"
Fergie
Fergie
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Your words not mine, but what's your point? That eating right, doing full body oly lifts and KB swings etc with a strict adherence to form, doing high intensity intervals of mixed exercises, doing lots bodyweight exercises, and mixing it all up along with learning new sports is a recipe for fitness failure? I mean, fucking duh.Marc wrote:Nafod,
Given that Crossfit (tm) (c) is the Ultimate Fitness tool, where are the world class competitiors that Crossfit (tm) (c) has produced?
To meet your "elite athlete" spec, Mark Twight's crew is pretty damn elite and their falling out didn't instantly make his program different. Look at his website schedule. Sure looks "crossfit" to me.
If Coach just simply could not be persuaded that the line of force in a KB swing versus a C&J max power explosiveness blah, blah, blah de-fucking blah...I was embarassed for all parties. Watching Bill run back here after his pissing matches to gain the acceptance of his irongarm peers made me think of the guy who walks into a bar carrying a handful of dog shit and says, "Hey guys, look what I almost stepped in..."
But hey, that's just one guy's opinion.
Don’t believe everything you think.
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It's not a recipe for a skill set. If you want to lose a few pounds off the tummy, I guess it's alright. If you don't kill yourself in the meantime, I guess it'll work OK.nafod wrote:
Your words not mine, but what's your point? That eating right, doing full body oly lifts and KB swings etc with a strict adherence to form, doing high intensity intervals of mixed exercises, doing lots bodyweight exercises, and mixing it all up along with learning new sports is a recipe for fitness failure? I mean, fucking duh.
Are they Crossfitters (tm) (c)?nafod wrote: To meet your "elite athlete" spec, Mark Twight's crew is pretty damn elite and their falling out didn't instantly make his program different. Look at his website schedule. Sure looks "crossfit" to me.
Coach is a lying asshole. 750 on the dead doesn't come from running in circles & touching your toes, dumbass.nafod wrote: If Coach just simply could not be persuaded that the line of force in a KB swing versus a C&J max power explosiveness blah, blah, blah de-fucking blah...I was embarassed for all parties. Watching Bill run back here after his pissing matches to gain the acceptance of his irongarm peers made me think of the guy who walks into a bar carrying a handful of dog shit and says, "Hey guys, look what I almost stepped in..."
Still don't know what the fuck your opinion is, but being this is IGx, eat a fucking dick, nimrod.nafod wrote: But hey, that's just one guy's opinion.
Um, have you watched the videos - their form SUCKS. (one of Mark's many splits from CF)nafod wrote:Your words not mine, but what's your point? That eating right, doing full body oly lifts and KB swings etc with a strict adherence to form, doing high intensity intervals of mixed exercises, doing lots bodyweight exercises, and mixing it all up along with learning new sports is a recipe for fitness failure? I mean, fucking duh.Marc wrote:Nafod,
Given that Crossfit (tm) (c) is the Ultimate Fitness tool, where are the world class competitiors that Crossfit (tm) (c) has produced?
To meet your "elite athlete" spec, Mark Twight's crew is pretty damn elite and their falling out didn't instantly make his program different. Look at his website schedule. Sure looks "crossfit" to me.
If Coach just simply could not be persuaded that the line of force in a KB swing versus a C&J max power explosiveness blah, blah, blah de-fucking blah...I was embarassed for all parties. Watching Bill run back here after his pissing matches to gain the acceptance of his irongarm peers made me think of the guy who walks into a bar carrying a handful of dog shit and says, "Hey guys, look what I almost stepped in..."
But hey, that's just one guy's opinion.
Mark, who I've had some of the most interesing and intense discussions of fitness with I've ever had, has a very different view of Elitness then Couch. BTW - one of the workouts they do, "High Price of Admission", a combination of clapping pullups, clapping pushups and jumping, is mine. Mark proudly posts his very average DL PR on his site. Any retard can see he's training his ass off, which around here goes along way toward forgiveness when you talk crazy shit.
Thanks for pity. "running back here" is the alternative to getting deleted and moderated elsewhere. That's why "here" exists.
"my body stayin' vicious, I be up in the gym, just workin' on my fitness"
Fergie
Fergie
I agree the form often sucks in the videos of the WOD when they go for time. I agree no one is probably going to hit 750 LB deadlift just off the WOD (although I'm no expert). Hell, I agree a KB swing will train explosiveness just fine. Arguing the diff between that and a barbell snatch is like arguing about virtue among whores. It's all skank. I just weed all that shit out and cherry pick all the good stuff, of which there is a hell of a lot. Far more good than bad. Period.bill fox wrote:
Um, have you watched the videos - their form SUCKS. (one of Mark's many splits from CF)
Mark, who I've had some of the most interesing and intense discussions of fitness with I've ever had, has a very different view of Elitness then Couch...
I came into crossfit from the climbing world too. You mention Mark's deadlift. I was pleased with my 2 x bodyweight deadlift when I got it, mediocre by PL standards I'm sure. But my core power-endurance improved significantly over the last three years, and that's where the rubber hit the road for me.
So here's my opinion. Any of crossfit's failings are dwarfed by its benefits.
Don’t believe everything you think.
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Twight's tweaked his stuff for his ultra endurance athletic endeavors, which is why you see 3-4 hour bike rides, xc skiing, and climbing/hiking stuff for HIM specifically.
The rest of it is kind of defined a bit more thoroughly than XF stuff. If you look on the calendar, he's got definitions of "chipper", "circuit", etc to help someone decipher what he's doing. Twight's taken the good stuff from the XF toolbox and added the good stuff from his own insights, and then a bunch of other myriad sources. GJ people are actually competitive athletes. Most of the XF population are fitness buffs.
I am going to go out on a limb here and say that most of the Gym Jones guys and girls were studs before they converted over to the GJ crossfit hybrids. Many of the GJ workouts are exactly like a XF workout. Then there are some very nifty twists.
Interestingly enough, almost ALL the XF studs were studs before XF. Very few are "homegrown".
At least two of Glassman's finest consider the pursuit of maximal strength at "x" lbs bodyweight more important than metcon stuff. Guess who they are, and they aren't Dan John or Mark Twight.
Who's next? I already know, but have been asked to keep my mouth shut about it until it becomes public.
Who'll be after that?
My guess is maybe Mike Burgener. Burgener is, by all accounts, a hardnosed but generous guy who has a moderate tolerance for bullshit. Since he only does OL, with XF influences, this might mean he'll stick around for a while if no one pisses him off personally. Running a close second (maybe even first) is Mark Rippetoe. Rippetoe, by all accounts from those close to him, doesn't enjoy associating with those who won't have a beer with him (which is most of the paleo and zone nutters who do XF). Rippetoe seems to have a low tolerance for bullshit, which might mean bye bye XF Witchita Falls. I don't know Rip, though, never even swapped an email with him. His book "Starting Strength" is a fucking kick ass reference though, and he also sells the Bill Starr books "Strongest Shall Survive" and "Defying Gravity" for Bill Starr.
Who'll never leave?
The Santa Cruz spin doctor cadre. There is actually some speculation that many of Glassman's problems come from him being insulated from real world things by this band of dumbasses, which include that total bald-faced liar, Tony B. I despise Tony B way more than I dislike Glassman, because Glassman is being an asshole for himself, whereas Tony B. is attempting to lie his ass off for Glassman like some kind of weird nutswinging closet homo pining away for Greg's gimpy man love. Tony B. is practically running the day to day shit at XF HQ now anyway. Tony B. has also emailed dissenting XFers with vague emails threatening excommunication from the XF church.
I doubt Mike Rutherford aka Rutman will leave either. He's been there too long. Glassman's goofiness doesn't effect him much in Kansas City.
The rest of it is kind of defined a bit more thoroughly than XF stuff. If you look on the calendar, he's got definitions of "chipper", "circuit", etc to help someone decipher what he's doing. Twight's taken the good stuff from the XF toolbox and added the good stuff from his own insights, and then a bunch of other myriad sources. GJ people are actually competitive athletes. Most of the XF population are fitness buffs.
I am going to go out on a limb here and say that most of the Gym Jones guys and girls were studs before they converted over to the GJ crossfit hybrids. Many of the GJ workouts are exactly like a XF workout. Then there are some very nifty twists.
Interestingly enough, almost ALL the XF studs were studs before XF. Very few are "homegrown".
At least two of Glassman's finest consider the pursuit of maximal strength at "x" lbs bodyweight more important than metcon stuff. Guess who they are, and they aren't Dan John or Mark Twight.
Who's next? I already know, but have been asked to keep my mouth shut about it until it becomes public.
Who'll be after that?
My guess is maybe Mike Burgener. Burgener is, by all accounts, a hardnosed but generous guy who has a moderate tolerance for bullshit. Since he only does OL, with XF influences, this might mean he'll stick around for a while if no one pisses him off personally. Running a close second (maybe even first) is Mark Rippetoe. Rippetoe, by all accounts from those close to him, doesn't enjoy associating with those who won't have a beer with him (which is most of the paleo and zone nutters who do XF). Rippetoe seems to have a low tolerance for bullshit, which might mean bye bye XF Witchita Falls. I don't know Rip, though, never even swapped an email with him. His book "Starting Strength" is a fucking kick ass reference though, and he also sells the Bill Starr books "Strongest Shall Survive" and "Defying Gravity" for Bill Starr.
Who'll never leave?
The Santa Cruz spin doctor cadre. There is actually some speculation that many of Glassman's problems come from him being insulated from real world things by this band of dumbasses, which include that total bald-faced liar, Tony B. I despise Tony B way more than I dislike Glassman, because Glassman is being an asshole for himself, whereas Tony B. is attempting to lie his ass off for Glassman like some kind of weird nutswinging closet homo pining away for Greg's gimpy man love. Tony B. is practically running the day to day shit at XF HQ now anyway. Tony B. has also emailed dissenting XFers with vague emails threatening excommunication from the XF church.
I doubt Mike Rutherford aka Rutman will leave either. He's been there too long. Glassman's goofiness doesn't effect him much in Kansas City.
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LMAO!Shaf wrote:... I despise Tony B way more than I dislike Glassman, because Glassman is being an asshole for himself, whereas Tony B. is attempting to lie his ass off for Glassman like some kind of weird nutswinging closet homo pining away for Greg's gimpy man love. . .
"Start slowly, then ease off". Tortuga Golden Striders Running Club, Pensacola 1984.
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