IGX

Colonel Dave Grossman of "On Combat" delivered a series of lectures to police about shootings, violence, PTSD and school violence. The audio of these lectures were stripped and placed onto CDs. The collection of lectures, spanning roughly six hours, is called "Bullet Proof Mind".

The lectures are contained on six CDs.

1. The hidden truth about lethal combat
2. How the body responds to combat - two parts.
4. The bulletproof mind.
5. Terrorism and School Violence.
6. Who is teaching our kids to kill?


I liked it for the most part, and some of the conclusions agree with my own experience surviving automobile accidents. So far I've avoided up close and personal life and death conflicts so I cannot present a complete review of these CDs.

On the other hand, I think that Colonel Grossman discounts armed civilians totally, preferring to refer to us as "sheep" and the police and military as "sheepdogs". I think reality is finer grained than that but even if you dislike police the CDs will probably be helpful for you.


The collection is available through

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/sh ... detail&p=5

Gene

Gene,
in his essay "on wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs" he makes no distinction between law enforcements/soldiers and armed citizens in the end and makes general reference to "those authorized to legally carry weapons." Granted, I haven't read all his stuff, but I've looked at his website quite a bit and read a fair amount of his publications. His definition of "sheepdog" seems to be anyone who's capable of violence but isn't either hate/rage filled or a sociopath. In any case, dividing everyone into 3 broad categories is mostly for illustrative purposes I'd suspect.

The last 3 or 4 years have seen me change from being an anti-gun person to believing that gun deaths in this country are mostly a barometer for other social problems. Also, it's pretty clear to me that I should be allowed to unapologetically defend my family and myself.

I may pick up the CDs

Gene wrote: So far I've avoided up close and personal life and death conflicts so I cannot present a complete review of these CDs.

On the other hand, I think that Colonel Grossman discounts armed civilians totally, preferring to refer to us as "sheep" and the police and military as "sheepdogs".

AFAIK, Grossman has no more experience with life/death conflict than you do, Gene. That would make him a "sheep."
And a shit-talker. His views on "why kids kill" is unfounded, but sells well to some interest groups.

http://www.killology.com/article_agress&viol.htm

Here's something from "Aggression and Violence," his scholarly contribution to the Oxford Companion to American Military History:

However, with the advent of interactive "point-and-shoot" arcade and video games, there is significant concern that society is aping military conditioning, but without the vital safeguard of discipline. There is strong evidence to indicate that the indiscriminate civilian application of combat conditioning techniques as entertainment may be a factor in worldwide, skyrocketing violent crime rates, including a sevenfold increase in per capita aggravated assaults in America since 1956.

So we can address the "skyrocketing violent crime rate" since 1956 to point-and-shoot video games that didn't exist until the 1990's?
Personally, I blame Disney television shows like "Davy Crockett."

The guy is a self-promoting lightweight.

FWIW

I am friends with a neuropsychologist who is far more concerned about shoot em up games causing violent behavior over movies and TV or anything else you can think of.

He's otherwise pretty liberal / libertarian in his views and he has kids.

I've only read his "On Killing" which was an awful book. Grossman has no qualms with using research that never actually happened.

Jack wrote: Put your money where your big mouth is.

The burden of proof falls on the man who makes the claim. That means Grossman. Or you, since you are so invested.


Care to show correlation (let alone causality) between violent video games & teen violence?
You could start here: http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/homicide/region.htm

For all regions, teen firearms-related homicide offending rates climbed from the mid-1980's and through the early 1990's have subsequently fallen.

The facts contradict the Grossman's "theory."

Read freakonomics for the reason, Johno.

Also, quality and quantity are far different. It's the random mass shootings that are relevant to Jacks (and grossman's) question. The decline in handgun violence is reflecting changes in drug and gang related violence.

johno wrote:AFAIK, Grossman has no more experience with life/death conflict than you do, Gene. That would make him a "sheep." And a shit-talker. His views on "why kids kill" is unfounded, but sells well to some interest groups.

One of the world's authorities on "Sociopathic personalities", Robert Hare, is not himself a sociopath. Know what I mean?

From what I've read Grossman interviewed combat vets and others to determine their motivations plus he participated in training of combat soldiers.

Gene

johno wrote:So we can address the "skyrocketing violent crime rate" since 1956 to point-and-shoot video games that didn't exist until the 1990's?
Personally, I blame Disney television shows like "Davy Crockett."

The guy is a self-promoting lightweight.

Well, Johno, the quote you cited above does seem damning.

I'll do some quotes from a bio about the contract killer, Richard "Ice Man" Kuklinski,

Richard began keeping a record of new ideas he had about ways to torture and kill people, writing down these new inspirations in small spiral reporter's notebook. He'd be sitting home watching TV, see something, write it down; the idea of using salt on the rapist came from a pirate movie he'd seen; the idea of using wet strips of rawhide and pouring hot water into people's noses also came from a film.

Richard even took inspiration from cartoons; especially the Road Runner with Wile E. Coyote; the use of heavy weights, fires, booby traps, throwing people out of windows, all came from Road Runner cartoons. He also found inspiration for mayhem and chaos from Popeye Cartoons.

(source: "The Ice Man" by Philip Carlo, pp 183-184)

This mark was very cagey. He knew that people were looking for him and moved with caution. For days Richard staked out his home...

In frustration Richard tried something he'd seen on a Bugs Bunny cartoon. He boldly went and knocked on the mark's door. He could see light through the peephole and he put his eye up against it. When saw the shadowy figure of the mark approach and reach the door, Richard put the barrel of the .38 up to the peephole, waited for the right moment, and fired, hitting the mark directly in the eye, instantly killing him

( ibid p 204)

If a grown man could take "inspiration" from cartoons would it not seem reasonable, Johno, that a small child who has no sense of conscience or empathy for others could "model" their behavior on such entertainment? Even in the 1950s when such entertainment was at least available in movie theaters and later on TV? Grossman claims that children do not readily understand the boundary between fantasy and reality.

Mind you, not every kid will act this way, which is why most of us just laughed when we saw those cartoons. Some kids MIGHT have taken things a little further is all.

Gene

KMF wrote:Also, quality and quantity are far different. It's the random mass shootings that are relevant to Jacks (and grossman's) question. The decline in handgun violence is reflecting changes in drug and gang related violence.

Grossman also claims, Steve, that guys like you (and I think Johno too) are saving lives that would have been lost twenty or thirty years ago. Grossman claims that our murder rates would be vastly higher if it were not for very effective and quick responders and a very good treatment system.

I'm impressed that you saved someone with abdominal wound from a shotgun. Took a bunch of blood and lots of work but it's still impressive.

Gen

Just ponder this Grossman quote, dumbasses. No grownup should submit that to any "scholarly" publication.

There is strong evidence to indicate that the indiscriminate civilian application of combat conditioning techniques as entertainment may be a factor in worldwide, skyrocketing violent crime rates, including a sevenfold increase in per capita aggravated assaults in America since 1956.

When did violent video games become widely marketed? Hint: not in 1956.
Doom hit the market in 1993. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_%28video_game%29
And the '90's are when violent teen crime plummeted.

I'm asking for evidence. Same the intuition & anecdotes.

Jack wrote:

clueless wrote:
I'm asking for evidence.

So you CLEARLY have not read Freakonomics. But you'll see that you're the fucking dumbass when you do - (in ref to your 90's commment)

I have read Freakonomics. So what?

johno wrote:

Jack wrote: Put your money where your big mouth is.

The burden of proof falls on the man who makes the claim. That means Grossman. Or you, since you are so invested.

I waste too much time on this forum. Let alone corresponding with every "expert" you promote.

If you want to swing on Grossman's nutz, defend his theories yourself.
"Email Grossman," doesn't get it.

When shit started on the playground, did your big brother come save you?

Johno is a sheepdog.