Occupy Wall Street

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:33 pm

I will watch the video tonight.

CharlieBob wrote:When I said "Government Corruption and a desire for power" I did not mean that the desire for power was only held by those corrupt people in the government. Members of Walstreet are certainly guilty of that lust, but were afforded it and not kept in check because of the corruption in the government.

The idea that you can blame government for something people on Wall Street did doesn't compute. Would you argue that a murderer can actually blame the government because they were afforded the opportunity to kill and not kept in check due to corruption of the government? Just who do you think effects that corruption in government? I'll tell you who, corporations and the moneyed people who control them. They are responsible for their own misdeeds and should be held accountable, as should any corrupt officials.

Thatcher II · Post by **Thatcher II** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:43 pm

Fat Cat wrote:Because Turd and I are both Christian and accept the moral authority of the Bible, apart from the subject of whether or not it is inspired literature. "Love thy neighbor as thyself," is win, whether or not God inspired someone to record it. Further, I don't really care about the journalistic veracity of the Bible. 500 years before Jesus, the Buddha observed that all living things flee pain and fly to pleasure; it is common to all animals. Jesus displayed divinity, supernatural qualities, in that he did the opposite out of love. I don't just see that as being nice, I see it as being something unique and amazing......

First, let me say what an honor it is to have a formal General Secretary of the Soviet Union join the discussion. Leaving that aside, you have totally misunderstood and/or mischaracterized what I said. The Bible is not the basis of my beliefs, and it may or may not be true, I don't really know. What is "divine" for me is the teaching, and that requires no blind faith of any kind: "Test all things; hold fast to that which is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

Firstly, I acknowledge with gratitude your warm welcome, Comrade Cat. It sure beats the ignorant and misguided torrent of "Fuck off, Rant" unleashed on me on other threads.

Not trying to be a smart arse, but I don't get it. You are now quoting the bible. Sort of circular. If you want to argue that the teachings of Christ are a good thing, I'd broadly tick "strongly agree". Personally, the divinity isn't something to which I subscribe. You seem to do so. Not sure if your definition of "divinity" is just very different so please clarify and then explain why you feel emboldened to assert that (truly extraordinary) claim.

The Venerable Bogatir X · Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:06 pm

Fat Cat wrote:I will watch the video tonight.

CharlieBob wrote:When I said "Government Corruption and a desire for power" I did not mean that the desire for power was only held by those corrupt people in the government. Members of Walstreet are certainly guilty of that lust, but were afforded it and not kept in check because of the corruption in the government.
The idea that you can blame government for something people on Wall Street did doesn't compute. Would you argue that a murderer can actually blame the government because they were afforded the opportunity to kill and not kept in check due to corruption of the government? Just who do you think effects that corruption in government? I'll tell you who, corporations and the moneyed people who control them. They are responsible for their own misdeeds and should be held accountable, as should any corrupt officials.

Based on your comment in bold, where do the Al Sharpton's of the world and their mass of voters fit in the Wall Street scheme of things?

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:07 pm

It's not circular. I'm quoting the Bible, yes, but not because I expect you to think it's some inspired work ghostwritten for God. I'm quoting it because it's objectively true to say that money is at the root of the evil on Wall Street. And you can test that premise, so there's no need to believe it blindly.

As for my definition of divinity, it's that which pertains to Deus, God. God is what you make of it, what you perceive to be supreme. For me in my own subjective bubble it's Jesus, for them money, for you...?

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:08 pm

High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:
Fat Cat wrote:I will watch the video tonight.

CharlieBob wrote:When I said "Government Corruption and a desire for power" I did not mean that the desire for power was only held by those corrupt people in the government. Members of Walstreet are certainly guilty of that lust, but were afforded it and not kept in check because of the corruption in the government.
The idea that you can blame government for something people on Wall Street did doesn't compute. Would you argue that a murderer can actually blame the government because they were afforded the opportunity to kill and not kept in check due to corruption of the government? Just who do you think effects that corruption in government? I'll tell you who, corporations and the moneyed people who control them. They are responsible for their own misdeeds and should be held accountable, as should any corrupt officials.
Based on your comment in bold, where do the Al Sharpton's of the world and their mass of voters fit in the Wall Street scheme of things?

I don't understand your question, please rephrase.

Turdacious · Post by **Turdacious** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:41 pm

Fat Cat wrote:I will watch the video tonight.

CharlieBob wrote:When I said "Government Corruption and a desire for power" I did not mean that the desire for power was only held by those corrupt people in the government. Members of Walstreet are certainly guilty of that lust, but were afforded it and not kept in check because of the corruption in the government.
The idea that you can blame government for something people on Wall Street did doesn't compute. Would you argue that a murderer can actually blame the government because they were afforded the opportunity to kill and not kept in check due to corruption of the government? Just who do you think effects that corruption in government? I'll tell you who, corporations and the moneyed people who control them. They are responsible for their own misdeeds and should be held accountable, as should any corrupt officials.

That's a little simplistic Fats. Members of Congress (and their staffs) are exempt from insider trading regulations that you, me, Wall Streeters, and everybody else in America are governed by. Each tail wags the others dog.

And it's not just corruption-- regulators are held captive by both grandstanding politicians and by corrupt ones; and there is no correlation between the resources regulators need and the resources they get. Sometimes it's just a lack of expertise-- Sonny Bono, for example, was dumber than shit.

Thatcher II · Post by **Thatcher II** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:12 pm

Fat Cat wrote:It's not circular. I'm quoting the Bible, yes, but not because I expect you to think it's some inspired work ghostwritten for God. I'm quoting it because it's objectively true to say that money is at the root of the evil on Wall Street. And you can test that premise, so there's no need to believe it blindly.

As for my definition of divinity, it's that which pertains to Deus, God. God is what you make of it, what you perceive to be supreme. For me in my own subjective bubble it's Jesus, for them money, for you...?

That is barber shop talk.

DARTH · Post by **DARTH** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:18 pm

GOD HATES US ALL!

He does, he told me.

Now you guys plz start a theology thread so we can get back to dirty hippies, dirty commies, dirty geedsters and dirty politicians.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:27 pm

Gorbachev wrote:
Fat Cat wrote:It's not circular. I'm quoting the Bible, yes, but not because I expect you to think it's some inspired work ghostwritten for God. I'm quoting it because it's objectively true to say that money is at the root of the evil on Wall Street. And you can test that premise, so there's no need to believe it blindly.

As for my definition of divinity, it's that which pertains to Deus, God. God is what you make of it, what you perceive to be supreme. For me in my own subjective bubble it's Jesus, for them money, for you...?
That is barber shop talk.

I don't understand what you mean.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:46 pm

Tomorrow is Guy Fawkes' Day, the 5th of November. It's an appropriate time to consider the proper response to corrupt and wicked men.

Remember, remember, the 5th of November
The Gunpowder Treason and plot;
I see of no reason why Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot.

Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes,
'Twas his intent.
To blow up the King and the Parliament.
Three score barrels of powder below.
Poor old England to overthrow.

dead man walking · Post by **dead man walking** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:55 pm

Fat Cat wrote: How did government create a Madoff, a Raj Rajaratnam? It didn't. I'm no fan of Caesar, but people who blame the government for every ill oversimplify the world.

the failure of govt--in this case the sec--allowed madoff to thrive.

there are no free markets. all commerce is governed by rules. some are good. some may not be. the failure to enforce rules effectively, as in the case of madoff, is a problem. rajarathnam was caught. what percentage of white collar cheats are taken down? drawing and quartering these motherfuckers in public might have a salutary effect on markets.

the idea that markets self correct is nonsense, as alan greenspan reluctantly admitted when the fan blew shit all over him.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:27 pm

dead man walking wrote:the failure of govt--in this case the sec--allowed madoff to thrive.

to some extent that is true, but it's a fact that government did not create madoff.

dead man walking wrote:there are no free markets. all commerce is governed by rules. some are good. some may not be. the failure to enforce rules effectively, as in the case of madoff, is a problem. rajarathnam was caught. what percentage of white collar cheats are taken down? drawing and quartering these motherfuckers in public might have a salutary effect on markets.

again, no real argument so long as both groups: white collar criminals and the politicians/regulators who love them, get a bite of the shit sandwich. And that's what OWS is all about: holding the responsible, responsible.

dead man walking wrote:the idea that markets self correct is nonsense, as alan greenspan reluctantly admitted when the fan blew shit all over him.

of course it's nonsense. the wannabe conservatives on this board verge on magical thinking in their worship of some Milton Friedman bullshit concept of an omniscient and responsive market.

baffled · Post by **baffled** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:45 am

Fat Cat wrote:Tomorrow is Guy Fawkes' Day, the 5th of November. It's an appropriate time to consider the proper response to corrupt and wicked men.

Remember, remember, the 5th of November
The Gunpowder Treason and plot;
I see of no reason why Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot.

Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes,
'Twas his intent.
To blow up the King and the Parliament.
Three score barrels of powder below.
Poor old England to overthrow.

Great. I can't wait to head out tomorrow. Snap pics with the digi or the iPhone?

Yes, I'm drunk · Post by **Yes, I'm drunk** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:58 am

LOL at fat cat thinking he's a man of the people.

CharlieBob · Post by **CharlieBob** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:18 am

Fat Cat wrote:And that's what OWS is all about: holding the responsible, responsible.

Is that really what it is about? Cause from where I sit it seems a lot more like people looking for free handouts and interfering with honest to God contributing members of society.

I have yet to see anything to do with holding anyone accountable in these protests, so if that is what you think they are about, I agree with you, but so far that doesn't match with what I have seen going on.

Grandpa's Spells · Post by **Grandpa's Spells** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:15 am

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/ ... s-unhappy/

A similar lesson emerges from a classic experiment conducted by Franz de Waals and Sarah Brosnan. The primatologists trained brown capuchin monkeys to give them pebbles in exchange for cucumbers. Almost overnight, a capuchin economy developed, with hungry monkeys harvesting small stones. But the marketplace was disrupted when the scientists got mischievous: instead of giving every monkey a cucumber in exchange for pebbles, they started giving some monkeys a tasty grape instead. (Monkeys prefer grapes to cucumbers.) After witnessing this injustice, the monkeys earning cucumbers went on strike. Some started throwing their cucumbers at the scientists; the vast majority just stopped collecting pebbles. The capuchin economy ground to a halt. The monkeys were willing to forfeit cheap food simply to register their anger at the arbitrary pay scale.

This labor unrest among monkeys illuminates our innate sense of fairness. It’s not that the primates demanded equality — some capuchins collected many more pebbles than others, and that never created a problem — it’s that they couldn’t stand when the inequality was a result of injustice. Humans act the same way. When the rich do something to deserve their riches, nobody complains; that’s just the meritocracy at work. But when those at the bottom don’t understand the unequal distribution of wealth — when it seems as if the winners are getting rewarded for no reason — they get furious. They doubt the integrity of the system and become more sensitive to perceived inequities. They start camping out in parks. They reject the very premise of the game.

Yes, I'm drunk · Post by **Yes, I'm drunk** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:45 am

The bankers have done nothing wrong in all of this. They have simply played the system given to them.

The problem is market capitalism. Individual rights and liberties are a joke in this system. This is obvious simply from observing what is going on in western democracies, no?

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:09 am

Yes, I'm drunk wrote:LOL at fat cat thinking he's a man of the people.

LOL at you knowing what I think.

Yes, I'm drunk · Post by **Yes, I'm drunk** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:15 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Yes, I'm drunk wrote:LOL at fat cat thinking he's a man of the people.
LOL at you knowing what I think.

You're the reason most people don't take these movements seriously.

It doesn't matter what I think, it's the cheap hypocrisy that you represent and the totemic contradiction you embody that means other equally ignorant dupes can discard the message that the protesters are trying to convey.

The Venerable Bogatir X · Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:02 am

Fat Cat wrote:
High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:
Fat Cat wrote:I will watch the video tonight.

CharlieBob wrote:When I said "Government Corruption and a desire for power" I did not mean that the desire for power was only held by those corrupt people in the government. Members of Walstreet are certainly guilty of that lust, but were afforded it and not kept in check because of the corruption in the government.
The idea that you can blame government for something people on Wall Street did doesn't compute. Would you argue that a murderer can actually blame the government because they were afforded the opportunity to kill and not kept in check due to corruption of the government? Just who do you think effects that corruption in government? I'll tell you who, corporations and the moneyed people who control them. They are responsible for their own misdeeds and should be held accountable, as should any corrupt officials.
Based on your comment in bold, where do the Al Sharpton's of the world and their mass of voters fit in the Wall Street scheme of things?
I don't understand your question, please rephrase.

I am saying that while I absolutely agree that money controls politicians to a large degree, so does mindless votes. Sharpton, for example, brings no dollars, but bus loads full of crack heads he can deliver to voting stations all day long.

The Venerable Bogatir X · Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:12 am

Yes, I'm drunk wrote:
Fat Cat wrote:
Yes, I'm drunk wrote:LOL at fat cat thinking he's a man of the people.
LOL at you knowing what I think.
You're the reason most people don't take these movements seriously.

It doesn't matter what I think, it's the cheap hypocrisy that you represent and the totemic contradiction you embody that means other equally ignorant dupes can discard the message that the protesters are trying to convey.

As an 'equally ignorant dupe' who thinks OWS is a flat out farse, do tell me the message the protesters are trying to convey. Just trust me when I say I am trying to be open minded, but the only take away's I get are 'money is the root of all evil', which is no new concept, and, 'gimmie, gimmie, gimmie'. Meaning, they want something for nothing.....entitlement money and entitlement programs. Built of course, on the backs of those who show up to work.

On another note, I continue to be amused by the photos and videos that clearly show a lack of representation by black and Hispanic America at these protests.....the welfare entitled know they have a good thing going and don't need all these angry white kids from the burbs messing with their gig. Hey, Pete and Molly, Starbucks is hiring.....take a shower and get to fucking work!

The Ginger Beard Man · Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:34 pm

Yes, I'm drunk wrote:The bankers have done nothing wrong in all of this. They have simply played the system given to them.

The problem is market capitalism. Individual rights and liberties are a joke in this system. This is obvious simply from observing what is going on in western democracies, no?

This^ is what OWS is about. They believe capitalism should be replaced by one of the failed economic systems of the past.
And don't throw some Scandinavian socialist paradise in my face. Sweden doesn't have racial minorities that are content to collect entitlements from one generation to the next.

Holland Oates · Post by **Holland Oates** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:25 pm

Didn't some stuff come up that there were welfare families(immigrants) in England that have multiple generations that have never held a job?

I'm all for helping people but creating a codependent group of people is not the answer.

dead man walking · Post by **dead man walking** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:38 pm

Yes, I'm drunk wrote:The bankers have done nothing wrong in all of this. They have simply played the system given to them.

emphatically incorrect. in fact, so fucking wrong that you should be handed over to an aransas, tx judge for correction.

from 2010

WASHINGTON — Goldman Sachs has agreed to pay $550 million to settle federal claims that it misled investors in a subprime mortgage product as the housing market began to collapse, officials said Thursday.

from 2011

The owner and former chairman of a private mortgage lending company, Taylor Bean & Whitaker, has been convicted in a $2.9 billion fraud scheme that contributed to the failures of Colonial Bank, one of the 25 largest banks in the United States in 2009, and TBW, one of the nation’s largest privately-held mortgage lending companies, the Justice Department said.

how many other instances of deceit are there? more than have been prosecuted, no doubt.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:08 pm

Yes, I'm drunk wrote: You're the reason most people don't take these movements seriously.

I do have great power.

Yes, I'm drunk wrote:It doesn't matter what I think,

So true.

Yes, I'm drunk wrote:it's the cheap hypocrisy that you represent and the totemic contradiction you embody that means other equally ignorant dupes can discard the message that the protesters are trying to convey.

By my calculus that wouldn't that make you an ignorant dupe, discarding the message that the protesters are trying to convey?

IGX

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