Bloomberg On The NRA’s Nightmare Nation

Thud · Post by **Thud** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:57 pm

Mayor Michael Bloomberg On The NRA’s Nightmare Nation

The NRA wants to create a nation where disputes are settled by guns instead of gavels, and where suspects are shot by civilians instead of arrested by police.

by Michael R. Bloomberg | April 13, 2012 4:45 AM EDT

As the National Rifle Association gathers in St. Louis for its annual convention, I have a message for its members that its leadership doesn’t want them to hear:

I agree with you. And it’s time for the NRA’s Washington-based leadership to start listening to you.

To hear most pundits and political strategists tell it, Americans are hopelessly divided by guns. But we’re not. Polls show that NRA members, and gun owners generally, overwhelmingly support common sense steps to ensure that guns are kept out of the hands of criminals.

Ask gun owners if they believe that background checks should be extended to all gun sales, including those that take place at gun shows: more than 80 percent agree.

Ask gun owners if they believe that terrorists on the FBI watch list should be prohibited from purchasing guns: more than 80 percent agree.

Ask gun owners if they believe they should be required to alert police if their guns are lost or stolen: more than 80 percent agree.

The problem we face in this country is not that there is an unbridgeable gap between gun owners and non-gun owners. In fact, there is broad bipartisan agreement among the American people about what should be done to crack down on illegal guns and improve public safety.

The problem is that those who claim to speak for gun owners in Washington—including the leadership of the NRA—are out of sync with their members. They are interested in pushing a political ideology, not protecting public safety—and nowhere is that more evident than in the NRA’s advocacy for “Stand Your Ground” laws.

The killing of Trayvon Martin has shone a spotlight on these laws, which are more accurately called “Shoot First” laws, because they allow people to shoot first and ask questions later. But no matter what happens in the trial of George Zimmerman, this much we already know: these laws are making our country less safe.

Five years ago, the NRA pushed a Shoot First law through the Florida legislature by claiming it would protect people who acted in self-defense. In fact, it has given a license to kill to anyone with a gun looking to settle an argument, including gang members. That’s one reason why leading law enforcement authorities opposed passage of the law—and sure enough, their fears have been realized.

Before the law was passed, Florida averaged 12 “justifiable homicides” a year. Since the law was passed, they are averaging 36 a year. Similar trends have happened in other states that have passed such laws. Georgia went from averaging seven justifiable murders a year to 14. Texas went from 26 to 45. There have now been 25 states that have passed “Shoot First” laws, and their justifiable homicides rates have nearly doubled.

These laws are vigilantism masquerading as self-defense, and getting half of the nation’s states to pass them is one of the best con jobs the NRA’s leaders have ever pulled off. They want to create a nation where disputes are settled by guns instead of gavels, and where suspects are shot by civilians instead of arrested by police. We have too many murders as it is without passing laws that lead to even more.

Every day in America, 34 innocent people are murdered with a gun; that’s like having a Virginia Tech massacre every day, only worse. It adds up to 12,000 people a year. Imagine losing the entire Freshman and Sophomores classes at Virginia Tech. It’s unthinkable. But it’s happening, year after year. And Washington just shrugs.

The great tragedy is that all those murders don’t have to happen. We can stop them. Not by banning guns; the Second Amendment must be respected. All it requires is for Congress to do what the NRA says it wants: enforce the laws on the books.

Federal law prohibits criminals and the mentally ill from owning guns. But as any police officer knows, both groups have easy access to them. Any violent felon can go to a gun show and purchase as many guns as he can afford. Those sales are illegal, but they happen all the time. A Department of Justice study found that 30 percent of all illegally trafficked guns are connected to gun shows. And an undercover investigation by the City of New York revealed that 63 percent of unlicensed sellers at gun shows sold guns to people who said they probably couldn’t pass a background check. Those sales are federal felonies—and they are business as usual.

New York City has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, and that’s one reason why we are the safest big city in the nation. But guns easily flow into our streets from out of state. In fact, about 85 percent of all guns recovered in crimes in our city were bought in another state.

Stand Your Ground laws are vigilantism masquerading as self-defense, and getting half of the states to pass them is one of the best con jobs the NRA’s leaders have ever pulled off.

The illegal access that criminals have to guns is a national problem that requires national leadership. But so long as Washington is under the myth that the nation is hopelessly divided on guns, nothing will change. The challenge before us is to help both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue understand that the American people—including gun owners—support common sense reforms that would allow us to enforce the laws already on the books.

In recent years, mayors from around the country, and from both political parties, have been joining together to take on this challenge. Today, our coalition of Mayors Against Illegal Guns counts more than 600 members, representing big cities and small towns, in urban, suburban and rural areas.

Mayors join the coalition because we don’t have the luxury of viewing the gun issue as an endless ideological debate. We are pragmatists and problem-solvers, and our first responsibility is protecting public safety. When criminals illegally possess and use guns, people rightly hold us accountable for stopping it. We support the Second Amendment, but we don’t hide behind it.

 Mayors also have a special responsibility to support our police departments. And that includes doing everything possible to disarm those who pose a risk to the public—and to officers on the beat. When a police officer is shot, mayors—not members of Congress or state legislatures—get the call to go to the hospital. And God forbid the officer doesn’t make it, we have to break the news that breaks a family’s heart. It’s a part of the job I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. But if members of Congress had to do it, I have no doubt they’d start taking this issue a lot more seriously.

There is broad agreement in America on how to make our streets safer. Gun owners, mayors, police chiefs, prosecutors, all understand what should be done. Now we just need to get those in Washington to listen.

Pinky · Post by **Pinky** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:35 pm

I can't think of a single person who is less trustworthy on this issue than Bloomberg.

Turdacious · Post by **Turdacious** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:39 pm

I'm shocked that @ would start a thread about the NRA. Totally out of ch@r@ct@r for it.

Gene · Post by **Gene** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:53 pm

Thud wrote:Mayor Michael Bloomberg On The NRA’s Nightmare Nation
The problem is that those who claim to speak for gun owners in Washington—including the leadership of the NRA—are out of sync with their members. They are interested in pushing a political ideology, not protecting public safety—and nowhere is that more evident than in the NRA’s advocacy for “Stand Your Ground” laws.

In contrast.... Mr. Bloomberg's idea of "reasonable gun control".... after all, do you see him trying to meet the NRA halfway, to COMPROMISE? Of course not!!!

The New York City Police Department has a job to do. And, depending upon who the mayor is, the NYPD will act accordingly with regards to pistol license applications, and pistol licenses in general.

If you know our NYC mayor: HE IS CONSIDERABLY ANTI-GUN.
We believe the mayor includes the law-abiding citizen in his anti-gun position.

ALLOW THE CHAMBERS LAW FIRM TO ASSIST YOU AT ANY STAGE OF THE PROCESS.

NO SUCH THING AS A 'PERSONAL CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE' IN NYC

We receive numerous calls throughout the year seeking information on how one can obtain a "personal" concealed handgun license in NYC. For the average citizen, this DOES NOT exist. If you seek a concealed handgun license in NYC, you must establish the statutorily requisite mandates of showing "proper cause." In NYC, the NYPD has essentially defined "proper cause," as the carrying of substantial cash sums (or the equivalent of cash) on a regular basis.

If you cannot show a business need, your application could be refused at the time of presentment.

Even high profile lawyers and celebrities who have retained our services, are being issued concealed handgun licenses based upon the risk involved in what they do for a living.

Finally, you may have been told by a so-called "pistol license consultant" that you can "carry" your handgun, if you procure a premise license in NYC. Take if from a professional and a true specialist, you are being giving wrong and dangerous advice. If you are issued a premise license by the NYPD, you are allowed to go to a NYC pistol range to shoot whenever you would like. However, you must do so with the handgun unloaded and carried in a locked container. If you carry your handgun outside of the legal restrictions of the handgun license you have been issued, you could be subject to arrest. In fact, you could charged with CRIMINAL POSSESSION OF A FIREARM. Unfortunately, you may even be convicted of that charge (notwithstanding that there are legal impediments to such a prosecution, since you are a pistol licensee-- most lawyers, judges and DAs are not aware of this fact).

http://pistolpermitattorneynyc.com/

Please note the disclaimers for NYC....

New York State Laws.

Purchase

No permit is required for the purchase of a rifle or shotgun (except in New York City).

A license to carry or posses a pistol or revolver is required to purchase a handgun. Elsewhere than the City of New York, a person licensed to carry or possess a pistol or revolver may apply at any time to the licensing officer in the county of their residence for amendment of his or her license to include one or more such handguns or to cancel a handgun held under the license.

No person, firm or corporation engaged in the retail business of selling rifles, shotguns or handguns, shall sell, deliver or transfer any such gun to another person unless the transferee is provided with a gun locking device and a label on safe storage.

Any business selling firearms must post a sign where the firearms are displayed or sold stating in bold print: “The use of a locking device or safety lock is only one aspect of responsible firearm storage. For increased safety firearms should be stored unloaded and locked in a location that is both separate from their ammunition and inaccessible to children and any other unauthorized person.”

Any manufacturer that ships, transports or delivers a handgun to any person in this state shall include in the container a separate sealed container that encloses: a shell casing of a bullet or projectile discharged from such handgun, and any additional information that identifies such handgun. A gunsmith or dealer in firearms licensed in this state shall, within ten days of delivering to any person a handgun received by such gunsmith or dealer, forward to the division of state police, along with the original transaction report, the sealed container enclosing the shell casing from such handgun received from the manufacturer.

Upon receipt of the sealed container, the division of state police shall cause to be entered in an automated electronic data-bank pertinent data and other ballistic information relevant to identification of the shell casing and to the handgun from which it was discharged. All firearm exhibitors must conduct a national instant criminal background check prior to all firearm sales or transfers, including sales or transfers of rifles or shotguns at a gun show.

It is lawful for NY residents to purchase or obtain rifles or shotguns in a contiguous state and to receive and transport said rifle and shotguns into the state, provided the person is otherwise eligible to possess a rifle or shotgun under NY law.

Possession – Rifles and Shotguns

There is no state license requirement for the possession of a rifle or shotgun, so long as the rifle has barrel(s) at least 16 inches in length and the shotgun has barrel(s) at least 18 inches in length.

It is unlawful for any person convicted of a felony, other serious offense, or who been certified as not suitable to possess a rifle or shotgun (mentally incompetent) to possess a firearm.

Possession – Handguns

A license is needed to possess a handgun in one’s home or place of business. Application is made to the licensing officer of the city or county where the applicant resides, is principally employed, or where his principal place of business as a merchant or storekeeper is located. An alien may obtain a pistol license if he or she meets these requirements. The determination whether to grant the license is completely within the discretion of the licensing officer. However, the licensing officer must state specifically and concisely in writing the reasons for a denial. A denial can only be overturned in court if the denial is shown to be arbitrary and capricious.

A license may be granted to an applicant who is of good moral character, who is over 21 years of age, who has not been convicted of a serious offense, who states if and when he has ever been treated for mental illness, who is not subject to a protective court order and to whom no good cause exists for the denial of the license. The age requirement shall not apply to persons honorably discharged from the military. (Persons between age 18 and 21 may possess a handgun at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small arms. A person between the ages of 18 and 21 may also possess a handgun at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by the NRA and while under immediate supervision).

An investigation will be conducted regarding all statements required in the application. This includes taking the fingerprints and physical descriptive data of the applicant. One copy of the fingerprints will be forwarded to the FBI for a search of the applicant’s criminal records. The failure or refusal of the FBI to make the fingerprint check shall not constitute the sole basis for refusal to issue a permit.

The licensing officer may, in his discretion, add restrictions to the license, limiting the places where the handgun may be kept or carried. No demonstration of need to possess is required to obtain an “on premises only,” license valid for one’s home or place of business. A demonstration of need must be shown, however, for a license not restricted to one of those locations. An “on premises only” license authorizes the possession of a handgun only at the location written on the license. It does not authorize the holder to take such handgun to any other place. (It should be noted further that an “on premises only” license technically does not authorize the holder even to transport the handgun from its place of purchase to the location stated on the license.) - valid for New York State

Applications for licenses must be acted upon within 6 months after presentment. If there is a delay, there must be written notice to the applicant stating the reasons. Such delay may be excused for good cause only.

If issued, a license is valid until revoked, except in New York City where a license shall expire not more than 3 years after the date of issuance, and in Nassau, Suffolk and Westchester Counties where a license shall expire not more than 5 years after the date of issuance.

A license fee is fixed by the board of supervisors in each county, with a $10.00 limit prescribed by state law. The Division of Criminal Justice Services sets the fingerprinting fee. The fee for each amendment to the license is $3.00 ($5.00 in Suffolk County). In New York City and Nassau County, the City Council and Board of Supervisors, respectively, set the license fees without regard to the state law limitation.

Each handgun possessed must be listed on the license by make, model, caliber and serial number. The only exception is possession of a properly licensed handgun by another licensee or license applicant at a target range.

The name and address submitted by an applicant to obtain the license becomes a matter of public record.

A licensee who moves his residence to another licensing jurisdiction within the state shall provide notification of the change in writing within ten days after such change occurs, and a record of such change shall be inscribed by such licensee on the reverse side of his license. Failure to notify of the change of residence may result in an inability to obtain amendments, and possible revocation of the license.

Carry

A license to possess a handgun serves also as a license to carry unless restricted.

A license to carry or possess a pistol or revolver, not otherwise limited as to place or time of possession, shall be effective throughout the state, except that the license shall not be valid within the city of New York unless a special permit granting validity is issued by the police commissioner of that city.

An applicant for a license to carry outside the home must be required to show, in addition to the requirement for possession, that proper cause exists for the issuance of a carry license, including, for example, target shooting, hunting, or self-defense.

The license can be amended to include one or more additional or different handguns. The licensee is required to carry the license on his person at all times when carrying a handgun.

A loaded handgun may be carried in a vehicle by a properly licensed individual. (Loaded means a firearm with ammunition loaded in magazine or chamber or any firearm which is possessed by one who at the same time possesses a quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such a firearm.) Possession of any loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle is illegal.

http://www.nyfirearms.com/blog/nys-gun-laws/

Yeah, reasonable gun control....

cleaner464 · Post by **cleaner464** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:18 pm

Easily frightened rodents like you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a gun. Please regale us again with your experience at the gas station and how you were prepared TO DRAW DOWN ON THE GUY WHO DARED TO CUT IN FRONT OF YOU.

Yes, I read that before you thought better of it and deleted the post.

Gene · Post by **Gene** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:13 am

cleaner464 wrote:Easily frightened rodents like you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a gun. Please regale us again with your experience at the gas station and how you were prepared TO DRAW DOWN ON THE GUY WHO DARED TO CUT IN FRONT OF YOU.

Yes, I read that before you thought better of it and deleted the post.

Your visual memory is impaired, Joe.

I was at a Stop 'n Rob filling up my gas tank. A decent looking car, I think a Ford Torino, cut around my parked car. He got a bit close to me.

He pulled around me, drunk and angry. Came out of his car. Walked up to me saying, "Who taught you how to park Motherfucker?".

I was filling up my tank with gas. I had a pistol in a holster, a lighter in one pocket and a shotgun in the trunk. He got to within my personal space, far too close.

I realized after he got into my space and then stepped out that he wasn't really into fighting me. I decided that talking would be the best way to work. So I politely stood my ground, kept him in sight and listened to him bluster.

After a few moments he realized I wasn't into fighting.

He began to complain.

I listened to him.

He segued into a mini rant about his "cunt ex wife" and wanting to take his son to see wrestling. I smiled inwardly remembering my own father and I watching studio wrestling when I was younger.

I empathized that my Mom would "play games with Dad". I added that my Dad did not spend as much time with me as he would have liked to have done so."

He nodded and called his wife a "cunt".

I said, "They get to you where it hurts, don't they?" I added that "I think you'll be able to spend more time with him when he's older and doesn't mind his mom as much".

He sounded more hopeful. "That would be nice".

"My Dad and I spent more time together in my teen years. We got along better".

He nodded, his mood brightening.

After spending a few more moments I finished filling up my tank.

We talked for a while longer. He told me that he was a "bouncer" and that he "enjoyed his work" but "hated that he couldn't spend as much time with his boy".

A short while after wards he began to start to cry.

"You've been so cool with me!", he said.

He ran into the Stop 'n Rob and soon came out with a Six pack of Pepsi.

"Here", he said, "Take this! Please, you've been so good to me".

Rather than start this bullshit all over again I took the six pack.

Only later did I realize that I could have burned him or shot him but instead did the right thing.

I'm sure, friends, that Joe will reply that if he were in my shoes that he would have "given him something to cry about" or some other variant of his Urban Tough Guy bullshit rap.

The Internet IS serious business. Right?

Gene · Post by **Gene** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:17 am

cleaner464 wrote:Easily frightened rodents like you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a gun. Please regale us again with your experience at the gas station and how you were prepared TO DRAW DOWN ON THE GUY WHO DARED TO CUT IN FRONT OF YOU.

Yes, I read that before you thought better of it and deleted the post.

Unlike your distorted memory, Joe, I clearly remember a young man here who boasted of racking up a fellow student in Judo class because this person, a former Police Officer, had "hurt him".

I too have injured fellow students, solely by accident. I still feel ashamed and a little sick remembering them in neck braces or sitting on the sidelines. They forgave me but I learned restraint and respect in turn.

Martial Arts involve trust in one's fellow students, a trust that this young man seemed unashamed if not proud to betray. To not only rack up a fellow student but boast of it? Such a lack of shame!

This same young man boasted of committing Aggravated Assault on a New York City Subway. What was the remark, "I'll make your speech impediment permanent"? That's a felony in Pennsylvania, Joe, and perhaps in New York State as well.

I do hope, Joe, that you'll convince this young man that betraying fellow martial arts students and committing acts of Aggravated Assaults upon total strangers could end up costing him legal bills. You will let him know, won't you?

powerlifter54 · Post by **powerlifter54** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:24 am

So does he want to just enforce the laws on the books or overturn "stand your ground laws"? Maybe a bad time to broach the subjects as many question DOJs willingness to enforce all the laws and folks wait and see what riots develop after the Zimmerman trial.

Hopefully everybody just moves on.

The Ginger Beard Man · Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:57 am

powerlifter54 wrote:So does he want to just enforce the laws on the books or overturn "stand your ground laws"? Maybe a bad time to broach the subjects as many question DOJs willingness to enforce all the laws and folks wait and see what riots develop after the Zimmerman trial.

Hopefully everybody just moves on.

Current laws are not enforced, he wants new ones to be unable to enforce.

powerlifter54 · Post by **powerlifter54** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:38 am

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:
powerlifter54 wrote:So does he want to just enforce the laws on the books or overturn "stand your ground laws"? Maybe a bad time to broach the subjects as many question DOJs willingness to enforce all the laws and folks wait and see what riots develop after the Zimmerman trial.

Hopefully everybody just moves on.
Current laws are not enforced, he wants new ones to be unable to enforce.

Thanks for clearing that up for me i think.

Cave Canem · Post by **Cave Canem** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:05 am

Bloomberg is a power mad controlling cunt. Fuck him and anybody who looks like him. There are not enough expletives in the world to adequately describe that megalomaniac.

baffled · Post by **baffled** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:47 am

Cave Canem wrote:Bloomberg is a power mad controlling cunt. Fuck him and anybody who looks like him. There are not enough expletives in the world to adequately describe that megalomaniac.

/thread.

Dunn · Post by **Dunn** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:52 am

The fact is that if enough evidence can be shown that you were in the right by shooting the person in self defense then it should end there. This is not and should not be a hard thing to understand.

kreator · Post by **kreator** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:21 pm

Thud wrote:Mayor Michael Bloomberg On The NRA’s Nightmare Nation
New York City has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, and that’s one reason why we are the safest big city in the nation.

Wrong. NYC is one of the safest big cities because people come here to start a career, make money, make a name for themselves, or raise a family. People want to live here and for the most part like living here. Violent crime is always going to be low in places where people like to live and have motivation.

Has nothing to do with gun laws.

Thatcher II · Post by **Thatcher II** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:00 pm

Weird thread.

The statistic of 34 innocent people being shot dead every day in the US.... Pause for thought? "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" not making me feel better about that.

kreator · Post by **kreator** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:36 pm

Gorbachev wrote:Weird thread.

The statistic of 34 innocent people being shot dead every day in the US.... Pause for thought? "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" not making me feel better about that.

Does that stat include cops?

Pinky · Post by **Pinky** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:53 pm

Gorbachev wrote:The statistic of 34 innocent people being shot dead every day in the US.... Pause for thought? "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" not making me feel better about that.

What's your point?

That number is far below the average number killed in car crashes per day. It's even lower than the number who die from poisoning on the average day. More people (mostly men) commit suicide with a firearm than are shot by someone else. Furthermore, those who are killed with a firearm are much less likely to be "innocent" than those who die on the road.

Herv100 · Post by **Herv100** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:01 pm

Gorbachev wrote:Weird thread.

The statistic of 34 innocent people being shot dead every day in the US.... Pause for thought? "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" not making me feel better about that.

Weird post, considering you're supposed to be from the UK. To use an American negroism: You do you, we'll worry about us.

Grandpa's Spells · Post by **Grandpa's Spells** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:22 pm

The problem is trying to pick sides between the NRA and Bloomberg. It's like NAMBLA v bin Laden.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:28 pm

Gorbachev wrote:Weird thread.

The statistic of 34 innocent people being shot dead every day in the US.... Pause for thought? "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" not making me feel better about that.

Beats being stabbed to death on some council estate by a fucking Paki.

Thatcher II · Post by **Thatcher II** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:35 pm

Herv100 wrote:
Gorbachev wrote:Weird thread.

The statistic of 34 innocent people being shot dead every day in the US.... Pause for thought? "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" not making me feel better about that.
Weird post, considering you're supposed to be from the UK. To use an American negroism: You do you, we'll worry about us.

Pity you wouldn't adopt that approach when it comes to foreign policy.

Thatcher II · Post by **Thatcher II** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:37 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Gorbachev wrote:Weird thread.

The statistic of 34 innocent people being shot dead every day in the US.... Pause for thought? "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" not making me feel better about that.
Beats being stabbed to death on some council estate by a fucking Paki.

Appropriate that you would choose to shoot the messenger.

TerryB · Post by **TerryB** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:16 pm

Gorbachev wrote:
Herv100 wrote:
Gorbachev wrote:Weird thread.

The statistic of 34 innocent people being shot dead every day in the US.... Pause for thought? "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" not making me feel better about that.
Weird post, considering you're supposed to be from the UK. To use an American negroism: You do you, we'll worry about us.
Pity you wouldn't adopt that approach when it comes to foreign policy.

That's LOL worthy.

Herv100 · Post by **Herv100** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:31 pm

Gorbachev wrote:
Herv100 wrote:
Gorbachev wrote:Weird thread.

The statistic of 34 innocent people being shot dead every day in the US.... Pause for thought? "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" not making me feel better about that.
Weird post, considering you're supposed to be from the UK. To use an American negroism: You do you, we'll worry about us.
Pity you wouldn't adopt that approach when it comes to foreign policy.

Swing and miss. That's my exact foreign policy belief, pal

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:09 pm

Gorbachev wrote:
Fat Cat wrote:
Gorbachev wrote:Weird thread.

The statistic of 34 innocent people being shot dead every day in the US.... Pause for thought? "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" not making me feel better about that.
Beats being stabbed to death on some council estate by a fucking Paki.
Appropriate that you would choose to shoot the messenger.

I'm not shooting anyone bro. I am pointing out that other approaches have their drawbacks. Appropriate that you would totally miss the point.

IGX

Bloomberg On The NRA’s Nightmare Nation

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