North Korea Thread

TomFurman · Post by **TomFurman** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:48 pm

OK, So North Korea cuts off any diplomatic channels with South, supposedly.
They threaten with missiles.

We fly some Stealth fighters over South Korea.

Are we baiting them to shit or get off the pot?
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What do you military types think is going on behind the scenes?

TomFurman · Post by **TomFurman** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:55 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/30/world ... .html?_r=0

A photo released by the North’s official Korean Central News Agency on Friday showed Mr. Kim conferring with his top generals on what the agency called “plans to strike the mainland U.S.” A military chart behind them showed what appeared to be trajectories of North Korean missiles hitting major cities in the United States.

TerryB · Post by **TerryB** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:03 pm

They lack the resources to do anything except invade South Korea and shoot some missiles into South Korea and Japan. Their long-range capabilities consist primarily of failed test launches and missile mockups that fool nobody.

TerryB · Post by **TerryB** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:08 pm

Despite the increasingly belligerent rhetoric and new images emerging from the North Korean regime, analysts believe its missiles are not capable of striking targets as far away as the US mainland and are not, as yet, capable of delivering a nuclear payload.

The images of Kim surrounded by his officers and diagrams of targets in the US are designed for a domestic consumption and to demonstrate the young leader's mastery of military affairs, experts believe

Bob Wildes · Post by **Bob Wildes** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:11 pm

I think the State Department fucked up when they let that cross dressing ex-NBA hoopster to go there
and get all chummy with the dwarf currently running that country.

We should have double teamed the little slope eyed pissant with that pair of Nebraska wannabe Ax murderers,
Justa and Herk.

vern · Post by **vern** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:52 pm

They're testing the new broad in charge of South Korea.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:05 am

vern wrote:They're testing the new broad in charge of South Korea.

Yup, and she's the daughter of Park Chung-Hee, who was himself a very conservative anticom. I actually think our moderate provocation is a good idea, because it is driving a wedge between DPRK and her last support, PROC.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:49 am

Grandpa's Spells · Post by **Grandpa's Spells** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:05 am

protobuilder wrote:They lack the resources to do anything except invade South Korea and shoot some missiles into South Korea and Japan. Their long-range capabilities consist primarily of failed test launches and missile mockups that fool nobody.

They can't invade the south.

TomFurman · Post by **TomFurman** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:45 am

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
protobuilder wrote:They lack the resources to do anything except invade South Korea and shoot some missiles into South Korea and Japan. Their long-range capabilities consist primarily of failed test launches and missile mockups that fool nobody.
They can't invade the south.

What would happen?

TerryB · Post by **TerryB** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:56 am

Yeah, I'm curious too.

Protobuilder · Post by **Protobuilder** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:04 am

1. I think that it's more internal posturing than anything aimed at the South or the US. Kim needs to be seen as a strongman ready to lead the charge. A 29 year old wonderkind CEO wouldn't have respect of his employees in a Korean society. Kim needs the support of his generals.

2. The US is been nearly as much of a problem as the DPRK. The last 2 administrations have had no idea how to deal with Asia. For every bit of military showmanship and political bluster that Pyongyang has put forth, the US has returned more than an equal amount. If China wants to be a big boy they should tell both sides to sit down and shut up.

3. Could the DPRK actually hit anything with a missile? The US is shoring up interceptor missiles on the west coast? Please. They have been lucky to get anything off the launch pad in the past 50 years.

4. DPRK has a ton of artillery along the DMZ, far more ground troops than the South and US combined and special forces that have been fairly successful in recent years. They could punch through and overrun the DMZ and hit Seoul if that were what they really wanted to do. Of course there is no way that they could sustain a battle against US air attacks but that is another issue.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:20 am

^^^korea expert

TomFurman · Post by **TomFurman** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:49 pm

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 0627.story

U.S. officials say they still believe that China, which provides food and energy to the North, is the key to restraining it. Officials say they hope to work out a stronger collaboration with Beijing, which has become alarmed by the North's recent nuclear and missile tests, and has stepped up enforcement of United Nations sanctions. North Korea staged its most recent nuclear test during the Chinese New Year celebration, which angered Chinese officials.

So the first US strike would cut off power from China?

TerryB · Post by **TerryB** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:06 pm

Fat Cat wrote:^^^korea expert

:snigger

Schlegel · Post by **Schlegel** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:19 pm

Apparently NK has declared war on the US as of 3 hrs ago. I guess if we did want to fuck them up, it would be all proper under the Geneva Convention now.

Thatcher II · Post by **Thatcher II** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:51 pm

Terry B. wrote:1. I think that it's more internal posturing than anything aimed at the South or the US. Kim needs to be seen as a strongman ready to lead the charge. A 29 year old wonderkind CEO wouldn't have respect of his employees in a Korean society. Kim needs the support of his generals.

2. The US is been nearly as much of a problem as the DPRK. The last 2 administrations have had no idea how to deal with Asia. For every bit of military showmanship and political bluster that Pyongyang has put forth, the US has returned more than an equal amount. If China wants to be a big boy they should tell both sides to sit down and shut up.

3. Could the DPRK actually hit anything with a missile? The US is shoring up interceptor missiles on the west coast? Please. They have been lucky to get anything off the launch pad in the past 50 years.

4. DPRK has a ton of artillery along the DMZ, far more ground troops than the South and US combined and special forces that have been fairly successful in recent years. They could punch through and overrun the DMZ and hit Seoul if that were what they really wanted to do. Of course there is no way that they could sustain a battle against US air attacks but that is another issue.

Splitting boring shit into paragraphs doesn't mean we'll read it. Pithy or GTFO. Douchebag.

Grandpa's Spells · Post by **Grandpa's Spells** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:03 pm

TomFurman wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
protobuilder wrote:They lack the resources to do anything except invade South Korea and shoot some missiles into South Korea and Japan. Their long-range capabilities consist primarily of failed test launches and missile mockups that fool nobody.
They can't invade the south.
What would happen?

I can't find it at the moment, but there was a recent link to a threat analysis of DPRK's ground forces that was pretty interesting.

The key points were:

1. North Korea has a huge army, but lacks the logistical ability to move it rapidly enough to even get to Seoul before a large response could be mounted.

2. Even if they did, the terrain would require it to move down very specific roads that have no cover. Insane turkey shoot.

3. Seoul is in range of their artillery, but the effectiveness once people took cover would be greatly reduced.

4. South Korea has had 50 years to locate and zero North Korean artillery placements. Once Seoul responded, North Korea would lose a few percent of their artillery per hour.

5. A large contingent of children of the Chinese political elite are educated in Seoul. Shell Seoul and you will kill some. This is apparently a big deal.

The conclusion was that with complete surprise, North Korea could inflict serious problems for about 30 minutes. Within 3 days, their artillery would be destroyed, they'd have an army they couldn't maneuver. They are a proliferation problem, but would never start a war unless the plan was national suicide.

Anon · Post by **Anon** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:10 pm

Drill and Frack NK now.

baffled · Post by **baffled** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:38 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
TomFurman wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
protobuilder wrote:They lack the resources to do anything except invade South Korea and shoot some missiles into South Korea and Japan. Their long-range capabilities consist primarily of failed test launches and missile mockups that fool nobody.
They can't invade the south.
What would happen?
I can't find it at the moment, but there was a recent link to a threat analysis of DPRK's ground forces that was pretty interesting.

The key points were:

1. North Korea has a huge army, but lacks the logistical ability to move it rapidly enough to even get to Seoul before a large response could be mounted.

2. Even if they did, the terrain would require it to move down very specific roads that have no cover. Insane turkey shoot.

3. Seoul is in range of their artillery, but the effectiveness once people took cover would be greatly reduced.

4. South Korea has had 50 years to locate and zero North Korean artillery placements. Once Seoul responded, North Korea would lose a few percent of their artillery per hour.

5. A large contingent of children of the Chinese political elite are educated in Seoul. Shell Seoul and you will kill some. This is apparently a big deal.

The conclusion was that with complete surprise, North Korea could inflict serious problems for about 30 minutes. Within 3 days, their artillery would be destroyed, they'd have an army they couldn't maneuver. They are a proliferation problem, but would never start a war unless the plan was national suicide.

I read something on cnn that said the first few days could suck but the rest pretty much matched this.

DARTH · Post by **DARTH** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:46 pm

Many valid points were made here but please remember this, the history of warfare is full of irrational acts and things going astray of what the military experts at the time foretold before the action.

There is enough potential for massive death and destruction and accompanying misery to take this sabre rattling serious enough to be on alert and make a few preparatory deployments.

It is time though to get our troops off the DMZ. Our people should be the hammer for IF NK attacks, not the trip wire and martyrs for a nation that has more active and reservist in their Army than the US Army, Reserves, Nationa; Guard and USMC combined.

If they have declared war on us, I say the next time we see a missile fuel on the pad, we hit them with a couple of Trident's and let the games begin on our initiative.

kreator · Post by **kreator** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:54 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
TomFurman wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
protobuilder wrote:They lack the resources to do anything except invade South Korea and shoot some missiles into South Korea and Japan. Their long-range capabilities consist primarily of failed test launches and missile mockups that fool nobody.
They can't invade the south.
What would happen?
I can't find it at the moment, but there was a recent link to a threat analysis of DPRK's ground forces that was pretty interesting.

The key points were:

5. A large contingent of children of the Chinese political elite are educated in Seoul. Shell Seoul and you will kill some. This is apparently a big deal.

That's something interesting I didn't know. Why would they send their kids there?

baffled · Post by **baffled** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:29 am

kreator wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
TomFurman wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
protobuilder wrote:They lack the resources to do anything except invade South Korea and shoot some missiles into South Korea and Japan. Their long-range capabilities consist primarily of failed test launches and missile mockups that fool nobody.
They can't invade the south.
What would happen?
I can't find it at the moment, but there was a recent link to a threat analysis of DPRK's ground forces that was pretty interesting.

The key points were:

5. A large contingent of children of the Chinese political elite are educated in Seoul. Shell Seoul and you will kill some. This is apparently a big deal.

That's something interesting I didn't know. Why would they send their kids there?

China and South Korea have pretty decent relations as far as I can tell, but I admittedly don't pay enough attention to the region to give much background beyond what I've read.

Seoul has a shit load of universities and specialty schools at the high school level, I think. Why Chinese political elite may send their kids there... maybe Terry can explain. Seriously.

vern · Post by **vern** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:18 pm

Protobuilder · Post by **Protobuilder** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:45 am

baffled wrote:
kreator wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
TomFurman wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
protobuilder wrote:They lack the resources to do anything except invade South Korea and shoot some missiles into South Korea and Japan. Their long-range capabilities consist primarily of failed test launches and missile mockups that fool nobody.
They can't invade the south.
What would happen?
I can't find it at the moment, but there was a recent link to a threat analysis of DPRK's ground forces that was pretty interesting.

The key points were:

5. A large contingent of children of the Chinese political elite are educated in Seoul. Shell Seoul and you will kill some. This is apparently a big deal.

That's something interesting I didn't know. Why would they send their kids there?
China and South Korea have pretty decent relations as far as I can tell, but I admittedly don't pay enough attention to the region to give much background beyond what I've read.

Seoul has a shit load of universities and specialty schools at the high school level, I think. Why Chinese political elite may send their kids there... maybe Terry can explain. Seriously.

ADD response: I don't know that it's entirely accurate - most send their kids to the US.

Longer answer: I think that I heard that over half of the Standing Committee has offspring in the US. I know that Xi Jinping's daughter is in the US as well as Jiang Zemin's grandkids. It used to be that if you had connections or money you sent their kids out of the country because schools are better abroad. Then, it became a sign of prestige. Thus, the US or UK woul be primary destinations.

However, now, it's mostly to protect them if things go down. The general populace is angrier than Kaz at an NAACP convention <much pith> and if you are particularly connected or wealthy, you are corrupt to a certain degree and There have been numerous cases of politicians and business people like Bo Xilai going down hard when tides shifted against them.

<paragraph break>

I wouldn't say that the "elite" has many kids in Seoul but if you were rich but didn't have the connections to get your kids into name schools in the US then Hong Kong, Singapore or Seoul would be your probable destinations as they have good schools and are stable enough to keep people from tearing your kids apart if the shit ever hits the fan.

IGX

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